JW73
Senior Member
It's not about collecting lens, it about changing (buy/sell) lens to meet ever changing needs on photo subjects.
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Need opinions on which Entry-level SLR to buy? Nikon/Sony?
- Thread starter gwend-n
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simpleone89
New Member
u might want to consider one with the AF motor in it. i have the d5000, and one thing i really regret is the lack of the AF motor. my lens choices are so limited, as i have to get lenses with the AF motor in it. but then again, as others said, nikon's market is much bigger, so much easier to get accessories.
u might want to consider the canon eos500d, it was my other choice too. just $100 more than the d5000, it has 15megapixel (i think so) and has the AF motor, so u got more lenses to use. i bought the d5000 because i figured out the swivel LCD screen would be more useful for me. but then again, my prime lens can only be used with manual focus, so i often have a hard time getting good images because of my bad eyesight, and also the timing manual focus takes. AF would be much easier.
however, if u got more cash, get the d90. at the end of the day, if u want to upgrade, bear in mind what u want to upgrade, and how much u willing to spend.
but i still love the nikon d5000. :heart:
u might want to consider the canon eos500d, it was my other choice too. just $100 more than the d5000, it has 15megapixel (i think so) and has the AF motor, so u got more lenses to use. i bought the d5000 because i figured out the swivel LCD screen would be more useful for me. but then again, my prime lens can only be used with manual focus, so i often have a hard time getting good images because of my bad eyesight, and also the timing manual focus takes. AF would be much easier.
however, if u got more cash, get the d90. at the end of the day, if u want to upgrade, bear in mind what u want to upgrade, and how much u willing to spend.
but i still love the nikon d5000. :heart:
Thank you very much! That's real helpful
I can tell you're a Nikon user?Then again, since I'm not the one paying for the camera I don't want to spend too much or I'll feel real bad for my mom who's gonna pay for the whole thing. What you said about planning to further = Nikon and not = Sony, I DO want to further this hobby of mine :cry: but sadly, I'm just a kid who hasn't earned enough money to support this expensive hobby of mine haha even though I'm REAL keen on the Nikon one.
1. If your mom is paying, get the Sony. You get a LOT more camera / $ that way.
2. As for going further, Sony has very nice options too... Cheap full-frame DSLR using essentially the same sensor as the D3X, autofocus Carl-Zeiss lenses...
Thank you very much! That's real helpful
I can tell you're a Nikon user?
Actually Sony is also a good platform for the future. Those lenses that Sony does not have will not be missed by most users. Even working professionals do not use every single lens of Nikon or Canon. Professionals are normally specific in a certain field e.g photojournalist, event, portrait, sports, wildlife, architecture, fashion, wedding etc, and hence they only have a certain range of lenses. If they need a lens they do not normally use, they probably rent and not necessarily buy as lenses are expensive and may not give return of investment.
And even in this varied field, there are certain lenses which will be common amongst them, eg 24-70 f2.8, 70-200 f2.8, 17-35 f2.8 and etc. These common lenses are available in the Sony line-up. Some also come in Carl Zeiss versions. Auto-focus CZ quality lens with in-body IS is a combination that only Sony has currently. In addition you can even use decades old Minolta lenses, that give a different flavour of their own, and still benefit from IS.
Sony lens line-up is also growing. In the few years that Sony has entered the market, they have already introduced numerous new lenses and bodies. More are to come for sure as Sony is a serious player in the DSLR matket.
Sony does not have the ultimate system, but which brand does? So do not discount Sony as an investment in your photography future.
ZerocoolAstra
Senior Member
Titan10k said:
wah lau eh... what does that statement mean? Seems rather inflammatory to me.
ZerocoolAstra
Senior Member
it's not true that the D3000 can only use DX lenses.
You can also mount the AF-S Nikkor 24-70 f/2.8 (which costs 3 times as much as the D3000 kit) and it will work perfectly, as it does with the D3 and D700 (FX cameras).
The D3000 and D5000 (and other older entry-models) DO NOT come with an in-built AF motor, so the AF Nikkor lenses (and 3rd party equivalents) will not have auto-focus functionality with these 2 models. There are some very good lenses from Nikon's past, and also some contemporary lenses that are cheap and good, which are not AF-S, thus... no autofocus with D3000 and D5000.
Think about what sort of photography you intend to do in the future. That will determine whether the D3000/D5000 can satisfy your requirements.
ZerocoolAstra
Senior Member
gwend-n said:
If you're planning to be buying this lens and that in the future, and not want to be so restricted in terms of lens choice, then at least you'll have to get D90 (if you stick to Nikon), or else you should seriously consider the other brands.
Same, I went to the amk hub one and the guy quote me $820 and I haven't even bargain. If u serious about a330, and he still gives u $880, I suggest u visit some other shop. Maybe he see u new to dslr and thus don wanna give u more discounts... these sort of thing happens...
U might wanna consider a300, it has a bigger grip than a330. I used to own a a350, which is same size and weight than a300, and it feels fine to me (im a guy btw)
Well...... the general consensus is to go with the 2 big names, Nikon and Canon. The reason is that the community is bigger, hence it is easier for exchange of information and knowledge (also to buy/sell equipments heheee). Not to mention those 2 marques have a wider and more comprehensive range of lenses and accessories.
cheers
rgs
rueyloon
Since so many people are recommending the D3000, lets do a comparison.
Before we begin, i'll like to burst some myth.
Myth 1
Nikon's sensor is better than Sony, and they will produce better image quality.
Fact:
Nikon uses Sony's sensor in many of their DSLRs. The D3000 uses the exact same sensor found in A200/230/300/330/350/380.
Myth 2
Sony has only a few lenses.
Fact:
In 2006 Sony bought over Konica Minolta to develop DSLRs in order to enter the DSLR market. The Sony Alpha is created to continue the legacy of Minolta Alpha. All Sony Alpha DSLRs are 100% compatible with Minolta AF lenses. So while Sony do have a limited number of lenses for now (after all Sony alpha is only 3 yrs old), they have a back catalog of a HUGE number of Minolta lenses to use, making them not far off from the number of AF lenses that the Nikon and Canon has.
Now that we got the sensor and lenses issue clarified already, lets continue with the comparison of the functions of Nikon D3000 vs Sony A330 (and this applies to A300 as well)
Bracketing: Nikon D3000 No : Sony A330 Yes
Its a great function for beginners. Unlike pros who can determind exposure correctly most of the time (but not always, sometimes they use bracketing too), beginners are very poor in judging exposure. As such the exposure bracketing will be a godsend function when they are in doubt of the correct exposure. D3000 lacks this function. A330 has it.
Live View: Nikon D3000 No : Sony A330 Yes
Again, a great function for beginners. Pros who have used DSLR for donkey years will have no issue with using the OVF all the time. However for a newbie coming from a PnS, having a live view will be very good. Im not saying u have to use Live View all the time, but its good to use in alot of situations. And in certain positions, using live view will be more useful than using OVF. For example when taking Over the Head shots, there is absolutely no way u can use OVF. But u can still use the live view, especially since the A330 has a tiltable LCD screen.
Image Stabalisation: Nikon D3000 No : Sony A330 Yes
IS modes can reduce handshakes, compensating around 3 fstops of light. Thats good enough reason to have IS mode. The 3000D does not have IS build into their camera, thus you have to buy lenses which has IS build into it. But these lenses typically cost alot more than non IS lenses. The A330 comes with IS build into their camera, as such ALL lenses which they use becomes an IS lens. This is a major cost savings. Do you wanna pay extra money to buy IS for all your lenses?
Wireless Flash Transmitter: Nikon D3000 No : Sony A330 Yes
Sony DSLRs comes with a build in wireless flash transmitter. The Nikon D3000 does not have this build in, so you have to buy a wireless transmitter which cost an additional few hundred dollars.
In Body Auto Focus Motor: Nikon D3000 No : Sony A330 Yes
As the D3000 does not come with a build in AF motor, they can only use auto focus with AF-S and selected AF-I lenses. These lenses will thus cost more than similar lenses which do not require in lense AF motor. Besides cost, it also reduces the selection of lenses which the D3000 can use. Of cos you can still AF lenses which dont have in lense AF motor with your D3000, but they will only be usable in manual mode. If u buy an AF lens which cant AF with your camera, you are either insane, or u are too rich.
So in actual fact, the Sony A330 has ALOT more lenses to choose from (counting Minolta lenses) compared to the D3000, which is crippled by the lack of focus motor and has limited number of lenses to use. The lack of focus motor also means, in the long run, the D3000 has to pay extra $$$ as every lens they buy, they will need to get the version which has a lens motor (which means they cant use cheaper, no motor version of similar lenses).
Before we begin, i'll like to burst some myth.
Myth 1
Nikon's sensor is better than Sony, and they will produce better image quality.
Fact:
Nikon uses Sony's sensor in many of their DSLRs. The D3000 uses the exact same sensor found in A200/230/300/330/350/380.
Myth 2
Sony has only a few lenses.
Fact:
In 2006 Sony bought over Konica Minolta to develop DSLRs in order to enter the DSLR market. The Sony Alpha is created to continue the legacy of Minolta Alpha. All Sony Alpha DSLRs are 100% compatible with Minolta AF lenses. So while Sony do have a limited number of lenses for now (after all Sony alpha is only 3 yrs old), they have a back catalog of a HUGE number of Minolta lenses to use, making them not far off from the number of AF lenses that the Nikon and Canon has.
Now that we got the sensor and lenses issue clarified already, lets continue with the comparison of the functions of Nikon D3000 vs Sony A330 (and this applies to A300 as well)
Bracketing: Nikon D3000 No : Sony A330 Yes
Its a great function for beginners. Unlike pros who can determind exposure correctly most of the time (but not always, sometimes they use bracketing too), beginners are very poor in judging exposure. As such the exposure bracketing will be a godsend function when they are in doubt of the correct exposure. D3000 lacks this function. A330 has it.
Live View: Nikon D3000 No : Sony A330 Yes
Again, a great function for beginners. Pros who have used DSLR for donkey years will have no issue with using the OVF all the time. However for a newbie coming from a PnS, having a live view will be very good. Im not saying u have to use Live View all the time, but its good to use in alot of situations. And in certain positions, using live view will be more useful than using OVF. For example when taking Over the Head shots, there is absolutely no way u can use OVF. But u can still use the live view, especially since the A330 has a tiltable LCD screen.
Image Stabalisation: Nikon D3000 No : Sony A330 Yes
IS modes can reduce handshakes, compensating around 3 fstops of light. Thats good enough reason to have IS mode. The 3000D does not have IS build into their camera, thus you have to buy lenses which has IS build into it. But these lenses typically cost alot more than non IS lenses. The A330 comes with IS build into their camera, as such ALL lenses which they use becomes an IS lens. This is a major cost savings. Do you wanna pay extra money to buy IS for all your lenses?
Wireless Flash Transmitter: Nikon D3000 No : Sony A330 Yes
Sony DSLRs comes with a build in wireless flash transmitter. The Nikon D3000 does not have this build in, so you have to buy a wireless transmitter which cost an additional few hundred dollars.
In Body Auto Focus Motor: Nikon D3000 No : Sony A330 Yes
As the D3000 does not come with a build in AF motor, they can only use auto focus with AF-S and selected AF-I lenses. These lenses will thus cost more than similar lenses which do not require in lense AF motor. Besides cost, it also reduces the selection of lenses which the D3000 can use. Of cos you can still AF lenses which dont have in lense AF motor with your D3000, but they will only be usable in manual mode. If u buy an AF lens which cant AF with your camera, you are either insane, or u are too rich.
So in actual fact, the Sony A330 has ALOT more lenses to choose from (counting Minolta lenses) compared to the D3000, which is crippled by the lack of focus motor and has limited number of lenses to use. The lack of focus motor also means, in the long run, the D3000 has to pay extra $$$ as every lens they buy, they will need to get the version which has a lens motor (which means they cant use cheaper, no motor version of similar lenses).
When did you go there to check it out? Hm when I went yesterday, he mentioned some promotional thing going on. With what, the actual price being about 1100++bucks and that now they throw in loads of stuff like 2 memory sticks etc with the kit. Could that be the cause of the increase in price?
i'll also like to show u the importance of having image stabilizer.
Firstly, take a look at this video clip. It shows u how image stabilizer works.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPdy52mR6Io
So now u hv an idea of how IS works and how it will greatly help u to prevent camera shake (which can seriously ruin your pictures)
I'll just give u 2 examples, and u can think thru it yourself.
Example 1: Cost
Lenses with build in Image Stabilizer cost more than lenses without (common sense)
Taking Tamron 17-50 f2.8 lens as example, as this is a very popular lens among all brands of DSLRs, due to its sharpness at a very affordable price. Canon, Nikon and Sony all can use this lens. Prices reflects the average street price of shops in Singapore.
Tamron 17-50 f2.8 without stabilizer $610
Tamron 17-50 f2.8 with stabilizer $930
Canon and Nikon users who wish to get image stabilizer will need to pay extra $$$ for it. In the above case, they will pay $930. Sony Alpha uses who wishes to get image stabilizer for their lenses pay $610, as we do get image stabilizer regardless of whether the lenses has build in IS or not. Just think, in the years to come, how many lenses u will buy and how much you will spend each time u need to get IS. Sony users will never get this headache.
Example 2: Choice
Even if you are very very rich, that doesnt mean u will definately get image stabilizer in your lens. Canon and Nikon DO NOT build image stabilizer into every single lens they have. They only build IS into selected lenses. You only have a small selection of IS lens to choose from.
Sony Alpha, again with the build in IS, can use any lenses and still get image stabilization. Infact you can even mount an old 40 y/o Manual Focus lens onto a Sony alpha and you will still get IS. I can safely say that due to this, Sony has the largest number of "Image Stabalized" lens to choose from :bsmilie:
There are many more examples i can give, but i rather u think this thru yourself
Firstly, take a look at this video clip. It shows u how image stabilizer works.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPdy52mR6Io
So now u hv an idea of how IS works and how it will greatly help u to prevent camera shake (which can seriously ruin your pictures)
I'll just give u 2 examples, and u can think thru it yourself.
Example 1: Cost
Lenses with build in Image Stabilizer cost more than lenses without (common sense)
Taking Tamron 17-50 f2.8 lens as example, as this is a very popular lens among all brands of DSLRs, due to its sharpness at a very affordable price. Canon, Nikon and Sony all can use this lens. Prices reflects the average street price of shops in Singapore.
Tamron 17-50 f2.8 without stabilizer $610
Tamron 17-50 f2.8 with stabilizer $930
Canon and Nikon users who wish to get image stabilizer will need to pay extra $$$ for it. In the above case, they will pay $930. Sony Alpha uses who wishes to get image stabilizer for their lenses pay $610, as we do get image stabilizer regardless of whether the lenses has build in IS or not. Just think, in the years to come, how many lenses u will buy and how much you will spend each time u need to get IS. Sony users will never get this headache.
Example 2: Choice
Even if you are very very rich, that doesnt mean u will definately get image stabilizer in your lens. Canon and Nikon DO NOT build image stabilizer into every single lens they have. They only build IS into selected lenses. You only have a small selection of IS lens to choose from.
Sony Alpha, again with the build in IS, can use any lenses and still get image stabilization. Infact you can even mount an old 40 y/o Manual Focus lens onto a Sony alpha and you will still get IS. I can safely say that due to this, Sony has the largest number of "Image Stabalized" lens to choose from :bsmilie:
There are many more examples i can give, but i rather u think this thru yourself
Hey thank you so much for all the info. So technically, Sony has better imaging quality as compared to Nikon? I was attracted to Sony for the Live View with AF. That would seem to come in handy especially since I'm a newbie in this. But I'm not sure if I'm attracted to that model for all the right reasons. Looking at your comparisons, I feel that going for Sony should be fine but I'm having my doubts especially about the whole bigger-community for Nikon and Canon users, as what rueyloon mentioned:
rueyloon said:
Cartman2000
Senior Member
The video actually works to convince people that lens IS is more effective than body IS :bsmilie:
i checked last month.
Ok here's the thing. Every electronic stuff you buy (no matter what brand) has something called a Recommended Retail Price. This is the official price of a said product.
Stores like Courts, Best Denki and brand stores like Sony Style, sells product based on RRP.
Retail stores (aka street stores) usually sells their products cheaper than RRP. On average, retail stores will sell their products at a 10% discount from the RRP.
Sony A330 has a RRP of $899. When I checked the price last month, retail store quote me $820, giving me nearly 10% discount. Im sure if i bargain hard, i will be able to get the "standard" 10% discount from stores.
Now this is purely my speculation. Retail stores always give discounts, but as to how much discount to give, its up to the salesman. As the official price is $899, the store selling u at $880 is already giving you a discount. MAYBE they see that you are not familiar with DSLRs and street pricings, so they probably only wanna give u a $20 discount. But for those whom they think are familiar with such things, they will of cos give more discount.
This is common business strategy...nothing new.
What i would suggest is, if u wanna buy from MS color and u think they are not giving u the Best Price that they can give, u might wanna try asking for an E-Quote. You might wanna use a guys name btw. No offence, but generally shops will think that guys are more well versed in such things.
http://www.mscolor.com.sg/e_quote.htm
With this E quote, they wont be able to see u in person, and thus they might give u a better price than what they gave u in person. Then after getting the E quote, u can go down to the shop and say "hey, u give me this price via E Quote" and they will gladly honour the price they gave you.
Alternatively, u can visit some other shops to check out the pricing before you make your purchase.
Sorry, in what way does Is work better in lens vs body IS? The way i see it, it performs exactly the same.
BTW Ive watched this video ALOT of times already (more than 10 times, im not kidding). Everytime I wanna show my friends and forumers what IS is about, i used the same video.
And so far I have not notice that the lens IS is better than the Body IS. Please tell me, at which point in the video, does it show that lens IS is superior?
BTW having IS in body does not stop you from using IS lenses though. As seen from the video, u can turn off Body IS, and use lens IS if you prefer.
but as I mentioned, I don see a need to use lens IS, and i wont waste money to buy a lense with build in IS (Sigma 18-250 IS alpha mount) for my Sony Alpha.
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No, technically Sony A330 has same image quality as the D3000, due to the fact that they are both using the same sensor.
BTW I strongly urge you to hold both A330 and A300 in your hands, see which one you like.
the A330 has a small grip, which may or may not feel nice to you. the A300 has a bigger grip. However the A300 does not come with a guide mode, but its not an issue, u can read the manuals for the functions anyway. Guide mode is basically for people who are lazy to read manuals LOL.
PS: when you buy a Sony Alpha, it comes with a complimentary FREE basic DSLR handling course. Good for newbies to attend and learn about their DSLR.
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Nah. Same sensor, so similar standard. Nikon tweaked the sensor for a finer high ISO grain, but Sony went for better color separation.
There's a very big and very healthy Alpha community here in SG already... We have a lot of weekly meet-ups even if it's just for kopi.
Now, overall the community is small... But what do you expect for a 3-year-old brand? As it is, sony has about 12-14% marketshare. That's not bad for a "new" DSLR player (Mnolta heritage aside)
Wow thanks. After watching that video.. hm yeah it seems like IS really is very important, especially in terms of lenses. Do most Nikon models' body come with IS?
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NONE of Canon and Nikon DSLR has body IS. Nikon and Canon are earning big bucks selling lense with IS, they'll be shooting themselves in the foot if they put IS into their DSLR body :bsmilie:
All Sony (and even Minolta) DSLR comes with build in body IS.
Some Olympus DSLR has body IS as well.
Pentax DSLR has body IS too. Not sure if all model have, but i know their newer ones got.
Side note: Pentax is the latest company to start using Sony Sensors in their DSLR. Just shows the strength of Sony Sensors, to be used in other brands.
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