Need opinions on which Entry-level SLR to buy? Nikon/Sony?

[android17]

my bad. always mix up d3000 with d5000.

1 didnt buy a lens with IS for the IS its comes with it as a kit which i sold it off (18-55 VR). when you take enough landscapes on a tripod you tend to off your VR/VC and forget to on it back. when shooting long enough you will find yourself shooting in the right shutter speed 1/"zoom range" s for sharp photos even without VR. and in conditions that I would need VR, i would being using flash or a tripod...hence it remains off most of the time...except on some rare instance that im shooting birds/ spying and my iso is already more than 2000. then i will use IS

why is d60 NOT worse than d3000?
1) d60 is cheaper than d3000
2) d60 use the same sensor as d3000 - heck even d40 uses CCD sensor.
as a result d60, d40, d3000 produces pretty much the same photo using the same lens.
3) the only difference i see it is : 11 focus point vs 3 focus point (which dun really matter if you know how to focus lock) and 3" Lcd vs 2.5" lcd.


the guide mode in d3000 dont impress me. i buy a camera to shoot not to read about how to do shooting. the few extra bucks paid to buy a d3000 for 11 focus point and 3"LCD and guide mode, can probably buy me a 35mm f1.8 or maybe a 2nd handed sb600 or a 2nd handed 55-200mm.!

You are using a tripod for most of your shots, so u don need stabilizer thats for sure, since there's no camera shake when a camera is mounted to a tripod. However not everyone goes around carrying a tripod. Also, you are using a D90, which is using Sony EXMOR that is known to produce excellent ISO noise control. But u recommended a D60, which is using a Sony CCD Sensor that is known to be much inferior to the EXMOR sensor on high ISO noise control, and yet u suggested increasing ISO rather than using IS.

Lets say a person is taking photos in low light situations where flash is not recommended, and the shutter speed is already at 1/15 on a 50mm, and ISO at 800. Which do u recommend for the D60? Increase ISO to 3200? Or use Image Stabilizer which can compensate 3 fstops? I would use IS 1st, and increase ISO as a last resort, rather than increase ISO and then using IS as last resort. Using of ISO does not degrade your IQ, compared to increase ISO to compensate 3 fstops which would surely introduce alot of noise into the picture, especially on a D60.

And I mentioned that D3000 is better than D60. This is a fact.
How about I say D1x is better than D60. Thats a fact too. In no way did i mention about price. Im merely stating the fact that a D3000 is better than a D60.

BTW i did not recommend her to buy a D3000. Im just saying D3000 is better than the D60, which u recommended her to buy.

 

[android17]

. but live view - is just useless(except in times when u give other newbie to shoot).

Take a look at these guys taking photos, thru the view finder

Few weeks ago in Orchard Road, I saw a female tourist doing the same thing, lying on the floor and taking ground shots. Imagine the number of eyes looking at her. Now, a Sony Alpha DSLR user taking ground shots wont be doing such silly poses. They would just squat down, on live view, tilt the LCD and compose the shots. No need to lie on the floor and using the view finder. So unglam, especially for a girl!





Now the below 2 pictures are taken 2 weeks ago during the 瑶瑶 "爱的抱抱" fan session. 瑶瑶 was standing on a stage, and below the stage there was a sizable crowd.

I caught this Canon user trying his best to take pictures. However there's a crowd in front of him, so when he compose thru his viewfinder, there will be alot of heads blocking his view. I can see him keep moving here and there, trying to compose his shots and avoid moving / blocking heads. Now image a girl, who on average is shorter than a guy, standing in the same position trying to take photos. If she uses the view finder, she would find it even harder to take photo compared to that taller guy.

Now, in the same situation, a Sony Alpha user, with live view and a tiltable LCD screen, would have no problems composing and taking photos. He on live view mode, tilt the screen down, hold the DSLR over his head and compose and shoot.

There's many other situations where live view can be used. For example taking Candid shots of people and especially kids. Its human nature to either pose, or look away or act unnaturally when you see someone taking a camera, looking thru the view finder and aiming it at you. Kids especially will tend to pose or run away when they notice u taking photos of them. So with a DSLR and composing shots thru the view finder, there will be more chance of the kids noticing you and they wont be natural at all. However if you use live view, you can place your camera at waist level (pretend to be looking thru the photos or something) and take shots. This way your targets / kids will not be conscious that you are taking photos, and thus it will be easier to take candid shots.

So is live view (and especially Sony's tiltable LCD live view) useless? Far from it. It is useless in the hands of someone who do not know how to make use of it. But when someone uses a little creativity, the live view with tiltable LCD screen, offers other unique way of picture composition as well as to take in difficult angles (like overhead and ground shots).

 

[Titan10k]

Take a look at these guys taking photos...

I salute you for the time composing a post like this. Technological advances make life easier but people keep being skeptical. I wonder why they don't go back all the way till manual focus and manual exposure. :bsmilie:

 

[ZerocoolAstra]

Just try both and trust your gut instinct. If you feel like "I like the Nikon" then get Nikon. If you feel like "I like the Sony" then get the Sony.

:thumbsup::thumbsup: for this advice.

 

[tootboink]

those guys lying on the floor... shooting upskirt?:what:

 

[hoppie]

just get a Nikon D90 You won't regret it. Fullstop

BTW, A330 havin super deal at Sitex, knn i bought too early.

$899 free 1 more batt, free photo frame+printer + the rest of the useless stuff MS gave me and charge me an arm and a leg.

Even throwing in a Drybox although it's pretty useless.

 

[android17]

just get a Nikon D90 You won't regret it. Fullstop

BTW, A330 havin super deal at Sitex, knn i bought too early.

$899 free 1 more batt, free photo frame+printer + the rest of the useless stuff MS gave me and charge me an arm and a leg.

Even throwing in a Drybox although it's pretty useless.

drybox is useful for new DSLR user who only has 1 body and maybe 1 or 2 lenses. Just buy a silica gel can already no need dry cabinet if your collection of lenses is not big.

too bad sitex never sell A500/550. Heard its selling like hotcakes, almost completely sold out in Singapore already. Even most Sony Style no stock and has to pre order now :bsmilie:

 

[android17]

I salute you for the time composing a post like this. Technological advances make life easier but people keep being skeptical. I wonder why they don't go back all the way till manual focus and manual exposure. :bsmilie:

they do!
Maybe some D60 and D3000 users will buy expensive non compatible / no motor AF lenses, mount it to their motorless body, and use those lens via Manual Focus! :bsmilie::bsmilie::bsmilie:

 

[Dominum]

omg the live view pictures make me feel like selling my a700 and getting a a550.. :mad2:

 

[wildsoyabean]

You are using a tripod for most of your shots, so u don need stabilizer thats for sure, since there's no camera shake when a camera is mounted to a tripod. However not everyone goes around carrying a tripod. Also, you are using a D90, which is using Sony EXMOR that is known to produce excellent ISO noise control. But u recommended a D60, which is using a Sony CCD Sensor that is known to be much inferior to the EXMOR sensor on high ISO noise control, and yet u suggested increasing ISO rather than using IS.

Lets say a person is taking photos in low light situations where flash is not recommended, and the shutter speed is already at 1/15 on a 50mm, and ISO at 800. Which do u recommend for the D60? Increase ISO to 3200? Or use Image Stabilizer which can compensate 3 fstops? I would use IS 1st, and increase ISO as a last resort, rather than increase ISO and then using IS as last resort. Using of ISO does not degrade your IQ, compared to increase ISO to compensate 3 fstops which would surely introduce alot of noise into the picture, especially on a D60.

And I mentioned that D3000 is better than D60. This is a fact.
How about I say D1x is better than D60. Thats a fact too. In no way did i mention about price. Im merely stating the fact that a D3000 is better than a D60.

BTW i did not recommend her to buy a D3000. Im just saying D3000 is better than the D60, which u recommended her to buy.

the fact she is budget constrain and thinking about buying d3000 is why i put d60 in.
yes d3000 is better...but by how much ? a mere 11 focus point, 0.5" lcd and guide mode. i definately wont pay extra for these.
and no i wont rec anyone buy CCD sensor unless they are tight on budget. and for the price pay for d3000, i rather buy pentax/sony/olympus with sensor that has much better noise control .

 

[android17]

the fact she is budget constrain and thinking about buying d3000 is why i put d60 in.
yes d3000 is better...but by how much ? a mere 11 focus point, 0.5" lcd and guide mode. i definately wont pay extra for these.
and no i wont rec anyone buy CCD sensor unless they are tight on budget. and for the price pay for d3000, i rather buy pentax/sony/olympus with sensor that has much better noise control .

both the D60 and D3000 are using the same Sony CCD sensor used in the A200-A380.

Sony A230 is cheaper than D3000, and slightly cheaper than D60, yet the A230 is better than both of them. So for the same price, i wont recommend D60 nor D3000.

But for a newbie, I would recommend the A330/300 instead of the A230. Reason being the "useless" live view. To me, as proven by the pics I posted, live view (with tiltable LCD screen) is indeed useful for lots of situations.

 

[android17]

btw TS U might wanna check out Sitex. They giving the following freebies.

Additional Battery - definately useful if u plan to go for a holiday, or will be taking lotsa photos in a day.

Drybox - As a DSLR user, u MUST have either a dry cabinet, or a dry box with silica gel. With the humidity of Singapore, your lens and DSLR body are very prone to fungus growth without the above.

Tripod - Very useful for landscape and night shots. I would rate this as a very good freebie if its given.

DSLR bag - The free Sony DSLR bag can put a DSLR body and 2 lenses, which i think is sufficient for newbies

Printer cum digital photo frame, usefulness is subjective. if u don need it, I don mind buying the printer from you (if u do buy from Sitex)

I think its a pretty good deal this time round. So u should check it out.

 

[android17]

omg the live view pictures make me feel like selling my a700 and getting a a550.. :mad2:

sell your A700 and buy A550 lor, no loss in $$$

 

[android17]

Someone selling Sony A500

http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=610995

Same price as a Sony a330, so Ts u might wanna consider this.

Sony a500 is using EXMOR sensor, which is renowned for its Image quality and excellent high ISO noise control. The fact that the expensive Nikon D90 and D300 produce so good IQ and iso control is because they using this sensor as well.

 

[zaren]

the sony force is strong in this thread. :bsmilie:

 

[gwend-n]

the sony force is strong in this thread. :bsmilie:

Haha yeah! Can tell

 

[gwend-n]

just get a Nikon D90 You won't regret it. Fullstop

BTW, A330 havin super deal at Sitex, knn i bought too early.

$899 free 1 more batt, free photo frame+printer + the rest of the useless stuff MS gave me and charge me an arm and a leg.

Even throwing in a Drybox although it's pretty useless.

Hey guys thanks for the suggestions!

After reading the responses and suggestions, I recently bought the Sony A330. Tried it out yesterday and I'm not regretting my purchase so far. Except, well, when I saw hoppie's reply Should've gone down to SiteX! D:

 

[alwayschampion]

Since so many people are recommending the D3000, lets do a comparison.

Before we begin, i'll like to burst some myth.

Myth 1
Nikon's sensor is better than Sony, and they will produce better image quality.

Fact:
Nikon uses Sony's sensor in many of their DSLRs. The D3000 uses the exact same sensor found in A200/230/300/330/350/380.

Myth 2
Sony has only a few lenses.

Fact:
In 2006 Sony bought over Konica Minolta to develop DSLRs in order to enter the DSLR market. The Sony Alpha is created to continue the legacy of Minolta Alpha. All Sony Alpha DSLRs are 100% compatible with Minolta AF lenses. So while Sony do have a limited number of lenses for now (after all Sony alpha is only 3 yrs old), they have a back catalog of a HUGE number of Minolta lenses to use, making them not far off from the number of AF lenses that the Nikon and Canon has.

Now that we got the sensor and lenses issue clarified already, lets continue with the comparison of the functions of Nikon D3000 vs Sony A330 (and this applies to A300 as well)

Bracketing: Nikon D3000 No : Sony A330 Yes
Its a great function for beginners. Unlike pros who can determind exposure correctly most of the time (but not always, sometimes they use bracketing too), beginners are very poor in judging exposure. As such the exposure bracketing will be a godsend function when they are in doubt of the correct exposure. D3000 lacks this function. A330 has it.

Live View: Nikon D3000 No : Sony A330 Yes
Again, a great function for beginners. Pros who have used DSLR for donkey years will have no issue with using the OVF all the time. However for a newbie coming from a PnS, having a live view will be very good. Im not saying u have to use Live View all the time, but its good to use in alot of situations. And in certain positions, using live view will be more useful than using OVF. For example when taking Over the Head shots, there is absolutely no way u can use OVF. But u can still use the live view, especially since the A330 has a tiltable LCD screen.

Image Stabalisation: Nikon D3000 No : Sony A330 Yes
IS modes can reduce handshakes, compensating around 3 fstops of light. Thats good enough reason to have IS mode. The 3000D does not have IS build into their camera, thus you have to buy lenses which has IS build into it. But these lenses typically cost alot more than non IS lenses. The A330 comes with IS build into their camera, as such ALL lenses which they use becomes an IS lens. This is a major cost savings. Do you wanna pay extra money to buy IS for all your lenses?

Wireless Flash Transmitter: Nikon D3000 No : Sony A330 Yes
Sony DSLRs comes with a build in wireless flash transmitter. The Nikon D3000 does not have this build in, so you have to buy a wireless transmitter which cost an additional few hundred dollars.

In Body Auto Focus Motor: Nikon D3000 No : Sony A330 Yes
As the D3000 does not come with a build in AF motor, they can only use auto focus with AF-S and selected AF-I lenses. These lenses will thus cost more than similar lenses which do not require in lense AF motor. Besides cost, it also reduces the selection of lenses which the D3000 can use. Of cos you can still AF lenses which dont have in lense AF motor with your D3000, but they will only be usable in manual mode. If u buy an AF lens which cant AF with your camera, you are either insane, or u are too rich.

So in actual fact, the Sony A330 has ALOT more lenses to choose from (counting Minolta lenses) compared to the D3000, which is crippled by the lack of focus motor and has limited number of lenses to use. The lack of focus motor also means, in the long run, the D3000 has to pay extra $$$ as every lens they buy, they will need to get the version which has a lens motor (which means they cant use cheaper, no motor version of similar lenses).

Oh gosh, you definitely tempt me to get a Sony Alpha DSLR

 

[Galdor]

Hey guys thanks for the suggestions!

After reading the responses and suggestions, I recently bought the Sony A330. Tried it out yesterday and I'm not regretting my purchase so far. Except, well, when I saw hoppie's reply Should've gone down to SiteX! D:

Hello...congrats. You should have join the seniors in the Alpha user outing this morning.

 

[hoppie]

the sony force is strong in this thread. :bsmilie:

no leh, haha i support nikon and canon although i am a Sony user

If i got budget next time, i wont rule out the possibility of getting a 50D, 7D or D90.
But i still like the compact size of 500D though.