Model Shoot in Pte Bungalow too

[sykestang]

To ZC...

From my understanding and reading of your postings in CS so far... you are nothing but a total idiotic figure who jumps from post to post giving your so called 'critiques/teaching'. BUT sadly to me, all your these critiques/teaching are actually not objective and one question I wanted to ask you for a long, long, time.... how good do you rank your skills in photography? All your portraiture photos posted so far don't justify to your critiques/teachings on others' photos cos I don't see you practice any of your teachings in your own photos at all. If you think this statement is unfair, post up your most recent portraiture photographs to prove your stand! ;(

For somebody I know who uses flashligjts to shoot an owl in the night... Sigh....

YOU'D BE BETTER OFF IF YOU LEARN TO HUMBLE DOWN AND ALSO LEARN TO SHUT UP YOUR MOUTH!!!

Sorry if this has gone personal cos I really find it a nuiscance reading your un-constructive single sided comments in almost all portraiture posts... if you really want to learn, then first learn to observe, however, if you want to increase your post count here, there are other means and also other sub-forums where you can do that!

 

[waileong]

I wanted to ask you for a long, long, time.... how good do you rank your skills in photography? All your portraiture photos posted so far don't justify to your critiques/teachings on others' photos cos I don't see you practice any of your teachings in your own photos at all. If you think this statement is unfair, post up your most recent portraiture photographs to prove your stand! ;(

YOU'D BE BETTER OFF IF YOU LEARN TO HUMBLE DOWN AND ALSO LEARN TO SHUT UP YOUR MOUTH!!!

How many art critics do you know who are better painters than Picasso? How many football commentators do you know who are better than Pele or Ronaldinho? How many theatre critics do you know who are better playwrights than George Bernard Shaw?

Going by your logic, only the best photographer in the world could criticise the 2nd best in the world, and only the best and 2nd best could criticise the 3rd best, etc.

How can your assertion stand?

It's obvious you are not impressed by ZC. If you want to attack his character or his attitude or his personality, that's perfectly fine, as long as you are willing to slug it out because you can expect retaliation.

It's also obvious you are not impressed by his photography. Again that's perfectly fine, although I'm not sure we are here to challenge each other to see who's the better photographer. But in any case, both of you can put up your photos and everyone here can judge for themselves who is the better photographer, if you want.

However, to say that ZC is a lousy photographer so his criticisms of other people's pictures are unjustified, that's stretching logic. His critiques may be superficial and shallow but whether it's justified or not depends on what he says and whether it makes sense. Not about whether he's a great photographer. In general, I don't think his criticisms offer much real substance, but that's different from saying it's unjustified. And in any case, he's not worse than the majority of criticisms here, who can only say crop like this, crop like that, overly-PSed, this is distracting, that is distracting, hair messy, etc.

 

[sequitur]

i won't comment on the fight...

i'll just give some 2 cents to the threadstarter yah?



well although you've just witnessed like one of the weirdest outbursts among forum members, i must say that for a 2 week old into photography person, you're doing pretty fine. but well, yes, that's more or less it. the images are nice, but they are just ordinarily nice. but not to say that that's a bad thing, because we all have to start somewhere... shoot more ordinarily nice images, and you can eventually start to challenge yourself by doing more play with light.. especially natural light.. for example, just look at the shot that student has posted up on the other thread - which shows how he has played with light and shadows to achieve the effect he wants..

yes a lot of professional images that you may have seen are usually achieved with strobes, or big mobile outdoor lighting... but let's just say that the biggest strobe available FOR FREE is the sun.. so when you learn how to play with that free light, you'd have progressed...

keep it up!


oh, i don't know if anybody else would be offended when i say this, but there're no darn rules in photography. having rules govern your image is not as good as you working your heart and soul in producing an image THAT YOU ARE SATISFIED WITH. why get bogged down with all the rules and technicalities of framing and exposure and everything? you just need the basic techniques, the rest of it is what has long been called "THE EYE"... (something that seems to have been neglected for a while)..


i think at this rate, some of the images from iD or FLAUNT mags when posted here are probably going to receive the worse comments ever... :bsmilie:



edit: oh yeah, there are no rules in photography, but there definitely are some basic guidelines that can make your image better.. the first one image is not bad... the second image fails in the sense of... "the eye level" (no not the eye but the eye level)... i dunno what's your intended image, but putting your subject on the same eye level as you are does help to enhance what you need to say sometimes... the concept is probably the same as "looking up", "looking down", and "we are equal"... depending on what you want to portray..

 

[sykestang]

How many art critics do you know who are better painters than Picasso? How football commentators do you know who are better than Pele or Ronaldinho? How many theatre critics do you know who are better playwrights than George Bernard Shaw?

No I don't know any... But the fact is that those commentators, art critics, etc you mention above does not take part in real competition and or showcase their art pieces in public after the critics they have given, be it bad or good. Thus for that reason, they are not opened for retaliation by the players/artists themselves. Unlike ZC here... he can be found in almost all the portraiture threads. Be it, he is welcomed or not, he just cannot shut his gap and blurt out what he has read or memorised from books, or whatever... his critics often sound so familiar as if I read it from some do&don't somewhere. By reading and memorising every words a book teaches and reproducing them does not mean that he can give a good critics. If he wants to give such critics, word it more tactiful as a form of '... May I suggest' thingy and not things like 'Please include copyrights in your photos!'.

Photography is a form of art... A kind that each one sees different things. I do agree in some sense with you that you need not be a Pro to give critics, but at least either make sure you don't make similar mistakes from your own crititism on others work.

BTW, cropping here or cropping there does makes good critics if the final result does makes a better picture.

 

[LightStalker]

your sentence makes you sound like a perv lei..

Sound like perv meh? haha.. Dint mean to make that kind of impression!! :cry: Wait.. I felt that this was a really good oppurtunity to get shots of a top model.. And you were thinking otherwise.. EEEEE Whose the perv now ! :bsmilie:

 

[sykestang]

oh, i don't know if anybody else would be offended when i say this, but there're no darn rules in photography. having rules govern your image is not as good as you working your heart and soul in producing an image THAT YOU ARE SATISFIED WITH. why get bogged down with all the rules and technicalities of framing and exposure and everything? you just need the basic techniques, the rest of it is what has long been called "THE EYE"... (something that seems to have been neglected for a while)..

Totally agree. Each of us sees a different thing on the same shoot. 'One man's meat could be another man's poison' :bsmilie:

The most important is justifiable and answerable to yourself and no one else.

 

[LightStalker]

No I don't know any... But the fact is that those commentators, art critics, etc you mention above does not take part in real competition and or showcase their art pieces in public after the critics they have given, be it bad or good. Thus for that reason, they are not opened for retaliation by the players/artists themselves. Unlike ZC here... he can be found in almost all the portraiture threads. Be it, he is welcomed or not, he just cannot shut his gap and blurt out what he has read or memorised from books, or whatever... his critics often sound so familiar as if I read it from some do&don't somewhere. By reading and memorising every words a book teaches and reproducing them does not mean that he can give a good critics. If he wants to give such critics, word it more tactiful as a form of '... May I suggest' thingy and not things like 'Please include copyrights in your photos!'.

Photography is a form of art... A kind that each one sees different things. I do agree in some sense with you that you need not be a Pro to give critics, but at least either make sure you don't make similar mistakes from your own crititism on others work.

BTW, cropping here or cropping there does makes good critics if the final result does makes a better picture.

I am a newbie, and i believe the main reason i come to forums like this is to get C&C on my photos and how should i improve. What ZC mentioned are actually good notes (other members comments are also very important, no offence here ) which i take into consideration. Personally, it doesn't matter to me if he got it out from a book, or memorized it from somewhere (can shorten my readin time :bsmilie: ). What matters is i learned from his point of view. He has his own rights to say this and that. The problem lies when you choose to follow his views, ignore it, or choose to condemn it. He never claimed that he was a critic, he never claimed that he was a pro, the threadstarter ask for C&C and he gave his C&C. So let this be the final post and i think its best to start a new thread with all your new pics threadstarter. Hope you have better luck than this thread :bsmilie: .

since we both newbie lets go take some shoots!! i also wan improve lei.. hahah

 

[waileong]

Unlike ZC here... he can be found in almost all the portraiture threads. Be it, he is welcomed or not, he just cannot shut his gap and blurt out what he has read or memorised from books, or whatever... his critics often sound so familiar as if I read it from some do&don't somewhere. By reading and memorising every words a book teaches and reproducing them does not mean that he can give a good critics. If he wants to give such critics, word it more tactiful as a form of '... May I suggest' thingy and not things like 'Please include copyrights in your photos!'.

He did say "Please". And I detect no malice. Although I agree, as you say, it lacks substance. But to me, that's different from being unjustified criticism. He's giving superficial and shallow criticisms, I agree, but not unjustified criticism.

However, there are people here who are far worse than ZC. Far more obnoxious, far more arrogant, far more crass, far more self-righteous. People who go to every thread and start using it as their own battleground. Completely OT and without respect to the threadstarters.

Wai Leong
===
PS Crop this, crop that-- have you ever read Mike Johnston's column? He says,

For the most part, the comments I read over and over again just illustrate how difficult it is for most people to say anything remotely intelligent about a photograph. "Nice shot," "good colors," "I find the ------ distracting," "I would have cropped it differently." Especially the cropping comment. Crop this way, crop that way. Crop this out, don't crop that out. It's not uncommon for somebody to suggest cropping out the very thing that for me makes the picture work. No wonder photography teachers for years insisted that students just print the whole frame and live with it!

See http://www.luminous-landscape.com/columns/sm-june-04.shtml

 

[thoa_rs]

I've been following this thread quite closely since yesterday and what Skyestang said certainly makes some sense. I won't comment on ZC's skills as a photographer, but it is his manner of c&c on newbie photos in the forum that seems to be the problem. Portraiture (and photography for that matter) should not be conformed to rules, and ZC seems to have this mindset on what good portraits should have, which he religiously blurts out on many threads. While I admire the goodwill on his part, I don't feel that it is right to overly influence new photographers on what you personally feel is a 'perfect portrait'. From the number photographers who view this forum, it won't be long before we see large groups of amateurs conforming to what they perceive to be good portraiture. Have you ever noticed that 75% of photos on this forum are so similar?

ZC, while I think c&c is a great way for us photographers to all improve, writing them almost like 'right and wrong' answers from a textbook is not the right way. Perhaps you could try a more personal and opinion-based style from now on.

 

[Zeckson Chow]

To Skyestang:
What you did is a personal attack. I would suggest that this should not continue. If you don't like what I said, if you think my comments are shallow, if others think I have no substance in my words and am reading it from a book, its fine. But unlike you, I will not put it so bluntly as to direct an attack to someone.

This is an open forum. Anybody can come in and comment on anything and there is no limitation to the number of posts one can put up. If you are not happy about it, you may consider suggesting to the forum to limit the number of posts members can contriubte.

You openly put up a challenge upfront. May I know your purpose? To slam me or to help the threadstarter? I merely highlighted to the newbies on some of the concerns that were talked about in the past. I did not openly blame or challenge anyone on any thread. I keep it to the issue I am saying and not including names to pinpoint. If my idea has led some of us to think in a certain way, so shall be it but in writing, I did not point my fingers to anybody.

My photos may still be amateurish shallow if you would like to think of it that way. That is fine too. I have never ever said I am good, a professional or a critic. What I did was step into a public open forum and give my comments and offer some words of my own. Okay, they might not have relevance to help, they might not be as good or even perhaps I might have used some words wrongly, whatever. But hang on, let's step back one step and look at it again. What is my motive of commenting? Does it make me look good and sound professional? Do I just want to increase my post count? Do I want to make myself different and prominent and kick a big fuss out of this sub-forum?

I am still walking on the learning road but I am not afraid to share what I learned with others. As long as I know it, I'll share it. Information I shared may and may not be correct, just let the threadstarter make his call on this. If he finds me irrelevant, he will choose to ignore what I said. If he finds useful, he will think about it.

So what has it got to do with you on me stepping into many threads and express my views? I am not here to make enemies and neither am I here to create trouble. May I suggest to everybody to look at it in the correct way.

 

[LightStalker]

ZC, while I think c&c is a great way for us photographers to all improve, writing them almost like 'right and wrong' answers from a textbook is not the right way. Perhaps you could try a more personal and opinion-based style from now on.

erm.. he did say that "i feel you should.. bla bla bla.. what you should do.. bla bla.." but he never said "I am correct because i follow textbook so you should follow me too."

Please bear in mind that some photographers here are actually professionals and some actually earn a living from it. So please stop this ridicule arguement and act as grownups! What i feel like shooting, what i feel not like shotting is totally up to me ma.. Dont need go to such length to say u suck.. :bsmilie: To all those who has read this post, This is really not CS is like, we are one big happy growing family. Even though sometimes siblings fights, this only tightens the bond between us..

For a newbie sake pls stop this arguement.. I came here to learn and shoot.. not to see ppl shoot each other down.. :sweat:

 

[student]

doc:

"assumption is the mother of all f*** ups"

Steven Seagal in Under Seige (or was it Under Seige 2?)

thot i told u b4?? i think u know lar. :bsmilie:

Under Seige 2.

Made not by Seagal, but by the terrorist.

An absolutely marvellous statement!

 

[student]

To the TS,

I apologise before, and I apologise again. This will be my last post in this thread.

I had set upon myself not to give comments on others photography, unless specifically requested to. Whether the legs should be placed this way or that, whether the hair should be messy or not, is not a matter of "RIGHT OR WRONG". It is a matter of personal preference. And because this preference is not clear science, I see little point in arguing over such things.

I am by no means an accomplished photographer. But I can pass on to you what I learnt from established photographers. And I mean "Established Photographers".

And this is this. Make images YOU like. Make images that appeal to you, not what another person tells you that you should like. Your likes and dislikes will change as you move along. But the images will be yours.

One does not have to be a photographer to give comments. But the person receiving the comments can chose who to ignore and to listen to. Some comments such as "I like this image" may be more valuable than many who gave "instructions", especially when the one who gave such "instructions" have little credentials.

My OT in your thread has nothing to do with anybody's comments on your images. If I think some comments on your images are crap, I do not bother.

My OT on your thread is to do with what I perceived as an unfair slur on the organiser.
Simple as that.

I will no longer waste my time on those **************!

 

[Wolfgang]

Gentlemen,

This argument has gone on long enough. It will probably not end and i do not think either one will see eye to eye on any of the issues discussed. I have no wish to take sides and i see no need to do so either.

May i suggest everyone take a step back and take a deep breath and move on. I do think that enough lead time has been given.

Thank you.

Any subsequent outbursts will be dealt with accordingly.

Thank you.

 

[student]

Gentlemen,

This argument has gone on long enough. It will probably not end and i do not think either one will see eye to eye on any of the issues discussed. I have no wish to take sides and i see no need to do so either.

May i suggest everyone take a step back and take a deep breath and move on. I do think that enough lead time has been given.

Thank you.

Any subsequent outbursts will be dealt with accordingly.

Thank you.

TS, sorry. I just read something and saw Wolfgang's admonition.

Wolfgang, I will not be drawn into the arguments on who can say what on imagery.

However, this ZC again tried to justify his comments (on the organisation of the shoot) by challenging me, in post #40, to read what he wrote in post #4.

OK, this is it!

In Post #4, he wrote:

OT: Is this an agreed bikini shoot? (my comments? fair question. And the answer is, yes, this is an agreed bikini shoot)

But then, in post #14, he wrote:

If this is an agreed bikini shoot, then what the other photographers and you are getting is not what you are paying for.

Now, let us read this again,

"..... not what you are getting for..... ". This assertion of course follows the earlier "IF".

Now this is clear. This was an agreed bikini shoot. So therefore, we did not get what we are paying for.

Meaning, Gravemaid did not stick to her side of the bargain.

Meaning, Gravemaid did not deliver what she promised.

Now is this a slur on Gravemaid's reputation?

And if so, what is CS's stand on a CS member passing slur on the professional intergrity of another member?

I am now totally out of this thread.

 

[Deadpoet]

I am now totally out of this thread.

I thought you were a couple of posts ago :dunno:

 

[Wolfgang]

As much as it pains me to do so, i think it is only fair if this thread is closed to allow everyone some breathing space.

I hope everyone is in accord and understands wht i have chosen to close this thread. It has strayed too far OT and it really isn't fair for anyone's thread to get taken over and used as a the venue for a verbal tit for tat.

Thank you.