Mirrorless or entry level DSLR?

[metranquility]

Not sure what you mean by Samsung being a copy of other brand cameras. AFAIK, the NX series is the only other APS-C mirrorless cam manufacturer.

Just for academic completeness, you forgot the Pentax K-01, though w its controversial boxy design, not sure it's for everyone. But it is quite clever in allowing all k mount Pentax lenses through the ages to be mounted, thus establishing an immediate lens family. But the trade off is the longer flange distance, and thus, I believe, the boxy design.

Agree with you on Samsung's commendable efforts in developing their own compact lenses. However, I think what kei1309 was referring to was the almost similar design btw the NX200 n NEX. I rolled my eyes too, when I first saw it.

 

[kei1309]

Not sure what you mean by Samsung being a copy of other brand cameras. AFAIK, the NX series is the only other APS-C mirrorless cam manufacturer. The lenses are made in-house and the pancakes are astonishingly small for an APS-C based mount. To me there seems to be more originality and less copying.

Just look at their product design, from phones to tvs to cameras. and when you've compared other brands offerings to them, you'll see just how much Samsung has been copying the designs of its competitors.

 

[Shahmatt]

Just for academic completeness, you forgot the Pentax K-01, though w its controversial boxy design, not sure it's for everyone. But it is quite clever in allowing all k mount Pentax lenses through the ages to be mounted, thus establishing an immediate lens family. But the trade off is the longer flange distance, and thus, I believe, the boxy design.

Agree with you on Samsung's commendable efforts in developing their own compact lenses. However, I think what kei1309 was referring to was the almost similar design btw the NX200 n NEX. I rolled my eyes too, when I first saw it.

You are absolutely right. Strangely I remembered the K01 only just now whilst inside the washroom, and I was about to correct myself before your post.

Regarding copying. Well everyone copies to some extent. The Japanese used to make very cheap low quality stuff in the 50s and 60s before they became a powerhouse for quality stuff. Korea is just following in their footsteps!

I thought all Sony Nex are also APS-C.. and their sensors are way superior, for around the same amount of money to the NX system...

Plus NEX has focus peaking, which makes it a lot more favorable when used with legacy lenses. NX also does not allow shifting of focus point/area when in MF mode, makes it really annoying when using legacy lenses. NEX is definitely much more flexible overall.

You've missed my words "only other", implying "aside from Sony" .

I'm not saying Samsung MILCs are perfect, but IMO they have a nice package with nice lenses that offers good overall value. I do think Sony's lenses are a little overpriced.

There are no such thing as the best mirrorless camera or best DSLR or best whatever. Sure the NEX had a bigger sensor as compared to the m4/3, but if we are only looking at sensor size, then M9 had the biggest sensor. And there is no such thing as the best sensor too... DXOmark might had some in the lab reading, but I don't think a camera is just dependent only on the sensor... many things came in to get the camera system working... things like the mirror (or without mirror), processor/s, AF system, etc etc.

And yes, the NEX had a great number of lenses after the additional of an adapter and you can use minolta lenses and A-mount lenses, so can the m4/3 (which after adding of an adapter, you can use the great Zuiko lenses too).

So it all boils down to individual preferences.

Agreed.

Just look at their product design, from phones to tvs to cameras. and when you've compared other brands offerings to them, you'll see just how much Samsung has been copying the designs of its competitors.

Samsung is a big company and I am not a proponent of all their products. I actually think Samsung phones are overpriced. I usually advise people to try to source from China companies like ZTE or Huawei, who offer better value. But I got inside information once (friend in the industry) that Samsung and Sony sources screens from the same company, but Sony screens are priced higher. On this basis I think maybe Samsung screens are good. I have a Samsung 17" LCD that still works after 7 years so the quality here is proven to me.

Also, if I am not wrong, Samsung created the AMOLED screen.

Samsung's NX camera came before Sony's NEX (Jan 2010 Vs May 2010). So they were the first to start MILC cameras with the APS-C sensor.

So they are not a total loss I think.

 

[kei1309]

Also, if I am not wrong, Samsung created the AMOLED screen.

Samsung's NX camera came before Sony's NEX (Jan 2010 Vs May 2010). So they were the first to start MILC cameras with the APS-C sensor.

So they are not a total loss I think.

Sony came out with OLED Technology before Samsung.

also, as for who produced the first Mirrorless camera, albeit without interchangeable lenses, and using an APS-C sensor:

Sony DSC-R1

anyways, i'm not saying Samsung ripped off Sony's design in the beginning, or neither am i trying to argue who came first. it's pretty obvious Samsung did. they did not copy the Sony NEX design in the beginning but they did do it eventually in the subsequent NX series.

and when i first saw the NX100 i thought it was a Nikon till i noticed the Samsung logo

so~~ Samsung boy, what say you~

are you staying objective? :bsmilie:

 

[Rashkae]

But I got inside information once (friend in the industry) that Samsung and Sony sources screens from the same company, but Sony screens are priced higher.

In the early days of LCD TVs, Sony and Samsung shared a factory for screens of up to 24" in size. That was years ago though.

 

[Prismatic]

Sony came out with OLED Technology before Samsung.

also, as for who produced the first Mirrorless camera, albeit without interchangeable lenses, and using an APS-C sensor:

Sony DSC-R1

anyways, i'm not saying Samsung ripped off Sony's design in the beginning, or neither am i trying to argue who came first. it's pretty obvious Samsung did. they did not copy the Sony NEX design in the beginning but they did do it eventually in the subsequent NX series.

and when i first saw the NX100 i thought it was a Nikon till i noticed the Samsung logo

so~~ Samsung boy, what say you~

are you staying objective? :bsmilie:

A bit off-topic, but actually Sony is looking to buy OLED panels from Samsung these days. Given the financial state of sony these days, they are no longer in the position to pursue their R&D anymore. Sad really.

 

[kei1309]

In the early days of LCD TVs, Sony and Samsung shared a factory for screens of up to 24" in size. That was years ago though.

Also, the panel might be the same but the final build quality and technology differs

 

[rhino123]

Also, the panel might be the same but the final build quality and technology differs

OT here

To add on... LCD TV like camera, don't just rely on the panel. Although it is one of the most important item in the entire assembly, it is not the only important item. So even when both companies are using the same LCD panel, result would be very different. Same to camera brands. Even when the cameras are using the same sensor, the final result would be very different.

 

[Shahmatt]

Sony came out with OLED Technology before Samsung.

also, as for who produced the first Mirrorless camera, albeit without interchangeable lenses, and using an APS-C sensor:

Sony DSC-R1

anyways, i'm not saying Samsung ripped off Sony's design in the beginning, or neither am i trying to argue who came first. it's pretty obvious Samsung did. they did not copy the Sony NEX design in the beginning but they did do it eventually in the subsequent NX series.

and when i first saw the NX100 i thought it was a Nikon till i noticed the Samsung logo

so~~ Samsung boy, what say you~

are you staying objective? :bsmilie:

Ok so just defending my statements.

1. I said AMOLED, not OLED. Please read me correctly.
2. I said Samsung made the first APS-C MILC, not fixed lens camera. Again, please read me correct.
3. I never said the NX100 was not a copy of another camera. I actually like the NX10,11,20 better actually because of the built in flash. Out of curiosity, which Nikon camera does the NX100 match?

 

[daredevil123]

Ok so just defending my statements.

1. I said AMOLED, not OLED. Please read me correctly.
2. I said Samsung made the first APS-C MILC, not fixed lens camera. Again, please read me correct.
3. I never said the NX100 was not a copy of another camera. I actually like the NX10,11,20 better actually because of the built in flash. Out of curiosity, which Nikon camera does the NX100 match?

I thought Samsung only "invented" Super AMOLED... which is an improved version of AMOLED by fusing the glass and removes the gap, improving contrast and brightness.

AMOLED was first introduced by Sony IIRC, and Dupont gave it a redesign.

And the original invetor of OLED is... Kodak.

 

[Shahmatt]

I thought Samsung only "invented" Super AMOLED... which is an improved version of AMOLED by fusing the glass and removes the gap, improving contrast and brightness.

AMOLED was first introduced by Sony IIRC, and Dupont gave it a redesign.

And the original invetor of OLED is... Kodak.

Right. What he said.

The original context of my statement on AMOLED (or actually Super AMOLED) was to demonstrate that Samsung have been developing also. They are not merely copiers of technology.

Kodak is doomed btw! :-/

 

[daredevil123]

Right. What he said.

The original context of my statement on AMOLED (or actually Super AMOLED) was to demonstrate that Samsung have been developing also. They are not merely copiers of technology.

Kodak is doomed btw! :-/

Every company has been developing and doing R&D. But doomed or not doomed, Kodak is the inventor of OLED and AMOLED. A company's strategic direction, successful or not not, does not take away what they have contributed to technology and our lives today. Without Kodak, there will not be film, there will not be digital sensors and there will not be OLED, among many other things.

We should all stop the fanboyism here, be it Samsung, Sony, Nikon or Canon. The technology rat-race has been about building on top of new technologies. They license from each other, steal from each other... It happens all the time. I am sure Samsung copied from Sony... And I am very sure Sony copied from Samsung as well. Everyone copies from everyone. Even Apple. If you take offence at the term "copy", then you have no place talking about technology. Trust me, it happens, I've been through it, and seen it all after 12 years in the Silicon Valley.

Rather than focusing on brands, we should focus on photography. But if you want to focus on equipment, then judge each system on its strengths alone... not just the brand. Personally, I do not think much of the samsung NX system so far. This is probably due to the lack of experience in the camera arena. But someday, they might be a viable option, but personally I think they are not at this point in time. Systems will come and go. They will top each other at some point, only to be topped by another a couple years down the road. Sure they copy others... that is called competition and progress.

In the end, why bother? Just let your pictures speak for you.

 

[metranquility]

Agree with daredevil.

And things may change. Though Samsung is not a great player in the camera scene, they are undoubtably the no1 in TV and Smartphones now, and is highly profitable, as well as have a huge war chest for R&D. All these may one day translate to strategic advantages for other products, including their camera lines. Who is to say that they won't swallow up rival camera companies n their patents too. Or find some way to integrate the different products in a way that the competitors can't, leveraging on their current competitive advantage ?

Ok OT too much liao. Ultimately, we just have to be clear that every camera brand has its pros and cons, there's no best camera, only best cameras for each consumer's uses and constraints. I still love my NEX most n respect if others love their Olys or Samsungs too

 

[fmeeran]

I still love my NEX most n respect if others love their Olys or Samsungs too

No respect for Canon / Nikon /Sony users? ;-) Just kidding.

 

[dniwkh]

I owned oly E1/E330, fuji s3pro, KM 5D, nikon D90/D700, pentax K-1, samsung NX10...

Of the mirrorless cams, I first bought NX10 mainly because of their lens lineup. Sony native NEX lens were very bad in the reviews. I sold NX10 mainly because of the poor sensor...

Then I got the K-01, which is really good except its fps in raw is .... 1fps. 1fps??? I never expected raw shooting at 1fps.

The next mirrorless camera I am hoping to get is olympus OMD. I really like olympus colors and their lens but their sensor has very poor dynamic range. Reports seem to show that the latest OMD has improved on DR quite a bit. I will wait for DXOmark to measure it and if it is really much better, I will get it with a 7-14mm lens. The OMD seems perfect. Nice built quality. Good sensor. Stabilisation. Tilt scren. Small size. Great lens lineup.

 

[Shahmatt]

I owned oly E1/E330, fuji s3pro, KM 5D, nikon D90/D700, pentax K-1, samsung NX10...

Of the mirrorless cams, I first bought NX10 mainly because of their lens lineup. Sony native NEX lens were very bad in the reviews. I sold NX10 mainly because of the poor sensor...

Then I got the K-01, which is really good except its fps in raw is .... 1fps. 1fps??? I never expected raw shooting at 1fps.

The next mirrorless camera I am hoping to get is olympus OMD. I really like olympus colors and their lens but their sensor has very poor dynamic range. Reports seem to show that the latest OMD has improved on DR quite a bit. I will wait for DXOmark to measure it and if it is really much better, I will get it with a 7-14mm lens. The OMD seems perfect. Nice built quality. Good sensor. Stabilisation. Tilt scren. Small size. Great lens lineup.

Wow, Fuji S3 pro. That's one I haven't heard of in a while. What became of this beast?

 

[Rc311]

wow discussion to TVs.. damm impressing... back to the topic,

I am just wondering what would the current mirrorless lack of as compare to DSLR? say OMD EM5 vs D5100/60D.

 

[wonglp]

wow discussion to TVs.. damm impressing... back to the topic,

I am just wondering what would the current mirrorless lack of as compare to DSLR? say OMD EM5 vs D5100/60D.

off the head
-battery life
-continuous AF
-robustness, you wouldn't handle it as roughly as a dslr
-ergonomics, omd standard grip is nothing to shout about, of course can spent another 350 for optional grip.
-fast AF lenses range in m43, certainly the 43 dslr range can be adapted as well but af speed would be rather slow/very slow. Nex would be faster I think.

 

[Rc311]

off the head
-battery life
-continuous AF
-robustness, you wouldn't handle it as roughly as a dslr
-ergonomics, omd standard grip is nothing to shout about, of course can spent another 350 for optional grip.
-fast AF lenses range in m43, certainly the 43 dslr range can be adapted as well but af speed would be rather slow/very slow. Nex would be faster I think.

Battery life... means would need to get extra battery for the OMD.

A stupid qns, are we able to manually select a foucs point via the EVF? should be able to, right? lolx...

 

[sloppyjoe123]

Yep^ you can