Minolta Flash

[sulhan]

But sulhan's test uses the on-board flash as fill flash... that is he set ratio flash as either 2:1 or 1:2. So even if the aperture is smaller, the on-board should continue to illuminate the subject unless the flash range is too small... usually should be ok right cos this kind of set up is like for studio shoots mainly with a fixed subject-len distance... ?? :dunno:

Hiee...

Based on my conversation with a fellow minolta staff from japan who uses Minolta too .....the wireless is mainly geared towards studio setup & Usage...

So lens wise would be those like portrait shoot which would most likely be in the portrait indoor setup.....within the GN of the on board flash...

So i guess.....going further distance would then mean having lower illumination...and underexposure expected...

rgds,
sulhan

 

[UY79]

Hiee...

Based on my conversation with a fellow minolta staff from japan who uses Minolta too .....the wireless is mainly geared towards studio setup & Usage...

So lens wise would be those like portrait shoot which would most likely be in the portrait indoor setup.....within the GN of the on board flash...

So i guess.....going further distance would then mean having lower illumination...and underexposure expected...

rgds,
sulhan

Are you suggesting that the fill from the built in flash in wireless mode is normal?

 

[sulhan]

Hiee....UY.....

In the user manual Pg72.....it says:
"....the camera's built-in flash fires to control the off-camera flash units rather than to illuminate the subject....."

In this case....i think if the subject is close.....there will definitely some fill in....thats what i have seen so far from my experience....like the photo below...

I was using the Sigma 70-200EX for this shot....and i was sitting on the floor about 2.5m away from my little girl. The 5600HS(D) is setup onto the picture's left....as seen fron the shadow....

Well......from my own tests....for the D7D....for the above shot....this is what i did....

1- Set the camera to Wireless + Flash (channel 1)
2- Position the flash.....about 2m on to the left of frame...
3- Set the flash exposure (bottom knob) compensation for the fill in level of the flash this is referring to the wireless flash....
4- Set the overall (EV) - top knob - Exposure compensation.....for the facial frontal....fill in level...(when i adjust the EV.....the overall exposure will be changed......)
5- Take the shot.....

So note the sequence.....3 and 4.....it have to be in that order.....to have proper control......from my personal experience....This means....that i will naturally have a ratio control not by only 1:2 or 2:1 by by a wider range to achieve wider effect....

So do share you thoughts on this...

rgds,.
sulhan

 

[TME]

Question:

Does step 3 change the exposure for the built-in flash or the 5600HS? Cos if the manual is correct, then it should change the 5600HS?

Thanks!

 

[sulhan]

Question:

Does step 3 change the exposure for the built-in flash or the 5600HS? Cos if the manual is correct, then it should change the 5600HS?

Thanks!

Yes TME....


It changes the flash ......the FEC changes the flash output....


rgds,
sulhan

 

[UY79]

Step 4: You mean you can control the fill from the built-in flash via the exposure compensation?

 

[TME]

Yes TME....


It changes the flash ......the FEC changes the flash output....


rgds,
sulhan

Sorry ar.. not clear.... which flash output does the FEC change?

 

[sulhan]

Sorry ar.. not clear.... which flash output does the FEC change?

Its the Wireless flash that is adjusted when the Flash Exposure compensation knob is tweaked......at least from my experience.......

Do share what you experience.....

As per UY's post....i guess....what may have happened is that due to the change in exposure setting with EV.....the illumination (frontal) may change as if due to front fill by the camera on board flash....but i did try cover the on board flash and the front goes dark......so i guess.....it looks like within some distance.....there will be fill in.....so looks like....its ....a

"try till you get a favorable setup and then document it and resuse for future shoots to repeat the efffect".....as we all know that creative lighting is what this wireless flash enables us.....

Thats why i suggested some documentation session for all to share....experience.....

Hows zat??

rgds,
sulhan

 

[sulhan]

Hiee Pals....

Here are some trials to illustrate the fill flash taking place....a mirror was used in this setup to show how much the frontal fill can take place during wireless flash....

Here is my test setup:
- Camera with 50mm lens
- backdrop
- mirror
- one test flash
- A bunch of colorful fruits in a metal "basket"
(Why metal "basket"?......because this particular one has bottom curvature to show which flash fired.....as you can see by close observation....)


Test done in the kitchen with lights all off - only lights from the flash.....

Test with mirror in place to capture fill in flash: (note the hot spot internal flare on every frame due to head on flashing)

The flash compensation (FEC) is increased shot to shot to show how
the wirelss flash is easily controlled by the Flash Exposure Compensation knob
on the camera (Dynax 7D was used in this experiment).....and the result...

For the experiment, i arbitrarily chose -0.3EV compensation to bring the overall image down a little.

The above shows:
- Fill in flash do occur as flash from the camera is fired during exposure.
- Exposure is maintained if the EV compensation is fixed.
- We(photographer) have two knobs that we can turn for our choice
of lighting control.

Finally here is to share one hot taken with two flash on wireless......
Finally a mix of wireless flashes left and right.....
Additional items for Final shot:
- 3600HS flash for final shot
- Foam board
- Omnibounce on 5600HS pointing 45degrees up

Do feel free to point out or query.....on my tests......lets learn together....

rgds,
sulhan

 

[Drudkh]

very nicely done Sulhan :thumbsup:

 

[UY79]

Its the Wireless flash that is adjusted when the Flash Exposure compensation knob is tweaked......at least from my experience.......

Do share what you experience.....

As per UY's post....i guess....what may have happened is that due to the change in exposure setting with EV.....the illumination (frontal) may change as if due to front fill by the camera on board flash....but i did try cover the on board flash and the front goes dark......so i guess.....it looks like within some distance.....there will be fill in.....so looks like....its ....a

"try till you get a favorable setup and then document it and resuse for future shoots to repeat the efffect".....as we all know that creative lighting is what this wireless flash enables us.....

Thats why i suggested some documentation session for all to share....experience.....

Hows zat??

rgds,
sulhan

You don't seem to get the point that I'm driving at. Go take shots of different compensation settings with built in flash in wireless mode without any external flash and tell me your observations.

 

[UY79]

Test with mirror in place to capture fill in flash: (note the hot spot internal flare on every frame due to head on flashing)

Do they look different to you? I see them as having the same intensity.

 

[sniperj]

Guys, I just tested my Minolta Flash 5200i on my A2. Sad to say cant work tho looks solid on this body.
Real waste cos bog so exp now cannot use...

 

[TME]

Do they look different to you? I see them as having the same intensity.

If u looked at the metal bowl, there is some difference in the lighting front on... I'm not sure if that is due to the wireless flash on the right side or due to the onboard flash... no harm trying wireless without external flash although will the onboard still trigger?

I think what Sulhan is trying to say is that within certain subject camera distances, the onboard flash will be powerful enough to give the subject some fill-in even though that is not it's express purpose which is to trigger the external wireless flash. And maybe we can make use of that if we own only 1 5600HS and need some fill-in.... afterall we can always control the subject to camera distance and compensate for the wireless flash exposure via the FEC.... UY79, I think this is what Sulhan is trying to illustrate rather than saying that the onboard provides fill-in...

 

[TME]

Guys, I just tested my Minolta Flash 5200i on my A2. Sad to say cant work tho looks solid on this body.
Real waste cos bog so exp now cannot use...

None of the xi flashes work with the latest DSLR or prosumer digicams... my 3500xi also does not work with my 7D... not even as a proper flash much less wireless mode....

 

[sniperj]

None of the xi flashes work with the latest DSLR or prosumer digicams... my 3500xi also does not work with my 7D... not even as a proper flash much less wireless mode....

Actually was trying my luck hopefully the manual is wrong.
Dun even fire..Sold it to a nice gentleman older than me for $90. Heart pain man bog it for almost $500 during those days. Anyway also no more use and no point to keep.
Use this money to buy the Battery grip for my A2

 

[TME]

Actually was trying my luck hopefully the manual is wrong.
Dun even fire..Sold it to a nice gentleman older than me for $90. Heart pain man bog it for almost $500 during those days. Anyway also no more use and no point to keep.
Use this money to buy the Battery grip for my A2

Well if u think about it... most of use paida bout $550 for our 5600HS... one day it will also be like the 5200xi.... :sweatsm:

 

[sniperj]

Well if u think about it... most of use paida bout $550 for our 5600HS... one day it will also be like the 5200xi.... :sweatsm:

Ya agree but at least KM shld at least make it tok to each other...so loyal supporter will continue to support them otherwise wnt even tok of swtchng camp.

 

[sulhan]

Do they look different to you? I see them as having the same intensity.

Hi UY....

From my tests....yes...the intensity is the same.....totally agree with you on this...100%

But you see....the fill in(not intentional) do exist....due to the distance....
Which is to say...if i move further back....frontal exposure may vary......(become darker as camera gets further...

By simple observation.....the distance of the mirror is behind the fruits....hence if it appears in the mirror.....by distance.....the fruits
would have got illuminated first....

So i guess....thats why the results obtained were as what i have shared....

Well.....and again.....taking the photo in a totally dark room with the lights off....where would the frontal light would have came from...?....in my case here the on board flash.


So i guess...in a normal muted/dim lightin in a studio setup.....which have already say an ambient LV(light value) Then the frontal fill may be negligible....being only a control signal.....** in line with the manual saying that the control signal is only for triggering ......also as per your understanding....

However, as my setup was to show that the on board flash "did" iilluminate to a certain level....in this case as the source of frontal light in a totally dark room...

..

rgds,
sulhan

 

[UY79]

By simple observation.....the distance of the mirror is behind the fruits....hence if it appears in the mirror.....by distance.....the fruits would have got illuminated first....

You have totally lost me with this one. What has this got to do with anything?

In addition, just a few post back you said build-in flash in wireless mode could be controlled through EC. Now you are saying it has the same intensity because the EV values did not change and only by varying distances that you can change the front fill?

Anyway, in your experiment there's fill from bounced flash off the walls of your room. In case you didn't notice.