M2-R question

[artspraken]

I been researching about M2-Rs. May I confirm with gewei shifu that...

• Based on the mother of all Leica serial lists, M2-R serials must be between 1248201 and 1250200 ?
  
  

  8/28/1969 M2-R Chrome with M4 Rapid Loading 1248201 1250200 2000

• the Leica Gods did not make any M2-Rs in black paint, amongst the 2000 in existence.
  
• it is very easy to modify normal M2 to add the M4 rapid load system and transform normal M2 into "M2-R". Like THIS
  

What is not clear to me is whether Leica M2-R got any special marking on the body that show it is M2-R. From what I read, I think M2-R got no special marking at all, making it very difficult to tell

 

[blacvios]

Something i dug out

If its army issue, there won't be anything cosmetic externally different from the norm M2, except the later ones as stated by you with the top plate having M2-R.

Serials ks15-4s is 1163150-1163770 and 1164046-1164300 taken from the thread below.

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=008SWS

 

[artspraken]

wah sek so intriguing...I found this KS-15-4 manual

THIS discussion confirms what you say also

So basically, the conclusion is:-

1. M2-R got 2000 pieces made, serials 1248201 to 1250200, all chrome, the M Body got engraving that says "M2-R" clearly on it.
   
2. KS-15-4 got 874 pieces made, serials 1163150-1163770 and 1164046-1164300, the M Body got no special engraving and looks exactly like M2, except got 3 differences: (1) got felt dust seals behind the rear door; (2) rapid loading system of M4; (3) supposed to have KS-15-4 "army case"

Picture from LUGs showing the 'dust felt seals'

 

[artspraken]

This is extracted from LFI magazine issue on 50th anniversary of Leica M2.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/astrovinni/sets/72157606203285486/

Confirmed there is an initial batch of 875 "KS-15-4" before the official release of 2,000 pieces of official M2-R. This is not listed in the cameraquest mother of all Leica serials lists.

In 1966, the Americans were given an additional 875 M2
units, internally known as the KS15-4, in which the new film quick-load system was tested for later commercial introduction with the M4 ...

...

From 1969 to 1970, another 2,000 similarly equipped M2s hit the US market, branded with the label M2-R. "

wah sek i can write thesis on leica liao hur hur hur

 

[artspraken]

The God of M2, Mr Tom Abramsson's gives his opinion on KS-15-4.

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1203982&postcount=17

Most of the KS 15's I have seen also had the M4 style finder in it (135 frames). It also had a different manual, buff colored military colors. Most were shipped as full "kits" with a 35f2.8, a 50f2 and a 90 2.8 ( and very few with the 66f2.0 ELCAN!).
As stated, the M2 R was a civilian version and came with a DR Summicron with a # 2.3xx xxx - and a few with DR's in the 2.4xx xxx range. 2500 M2 R's were sold, mainly in Canada and the US - hence the "hyped" value in Europe and Asia.
I have had a couple of them (K15's) and they were all well used and usually painted black (not factory paint - just a rather crude brush paint job with something that would have been appropriate for a garage floor!).
Leica overestimated the US Military demand for the K15's and ended up with the 2500 that were not included in the sales (various figures given - 1000 or 2000 units) and rather than dumping them, re-engraved them M2 R and sold them to the public.
The M4 was already in the pipeline and I suspect that the military wanted the "newer" version with the dedicated 50mm lens.

 

[blacvios]

Swee great historical info, guess the one on offer in CS is 87 pieces late.

 

[hookonclassic]

Well done...great research to answer your questions...and what a great spirit to share your findings in CS...

Can write paper liao...:thumbsup:

 

[artspraken]

I found a picture of a real KS-15-4

It comes with a leather case. If no leather case, beware it may be ordinary M2 modified to have M4 rapid load.