Lowball vs Genuine Nego

[drcanonnikon]

Am constantly troubled by definition of exactly when does
Lowball start and Genuine Nego ends

Just for sake of illustration, let's use pricing on the very
Popular Sigma 35mm f/1,4 ART series :-

Current Brand New Price in Sigma Authorised dealers
Is around $ 1080

Let's say somebody wants to Sell a 2year old Sigma 35 ART
In mint condition and ask $ 900

Is $ 800 a acceptable Nego ?

Or is $ 800 being a low baller ?

Or should Nego stop at $ 850 ?

Seems to me a very arbitrary and subjective definition of what is
A lowball price


Any thoughts please ?

 

[shierwin]

There are buyers that "low ball" and there are sellers that "High ball"

The market is free; Willing seller and willing buyer

In the example you set, in my opinion, the seller "high ball". Usually 2nd hand price will be 25-35% of CURRENT NEW PRICE; not his purchase price.

 

[sjackal]

Am constantly troubled by definition of exactly when does
Lowball start and Genuine Nego ends

Just for sake of illustration, let's use pricing on the very
Popular Sigma 35mm f/1,4 ART series :-

Current Brand New Price in Sigma Authorised dealers
Is around $ 1080

Let's say somebody wants to Sell a 2year old Sigma 35 ART
In mint condition and ask $ 900

Is $ 800 a acceptable Nego ?

Or is $ 800 being a low baller ?

Or should Nego stop at $ 850 ?

Seems to me a very arbitrary and subjective definition of what is
A lowball price


Any thoughts please ?

Brand new street price $1080.

Asking price $900 = 83% of brand new

Nego price: $800 = 74% of brand new

Perfectly reasonable.

Personally, anything above 80% of brand new street price, it is not worth getting pre-owned, no matter what the condition, because hen you are buying second hand, you are also taking the risk of not knowing if the seller had hidden reasons for sale; minor damage hard to detect, dropped before, no cosmetic evidence but affects functionality a little bit that is hard to detect or duplicate consistently, ie a heavily bumped lens with random focus problem or occasional softness issue that surfaces in real world use but hard to detect during controlled testing.

In addition, when you buy brand new from shops, you get the assurance of full warranty, lemon law protection, service from sales rep, and the enjoyable experience of shopping for something brand new.

In fact, at the 70% to 80% price, I am looking for condition 10 or near mint items as a general guide but other factors take into consideration like the newness of the model.

For instance, the 70-200 f2.8 VR1 I bought brand new at $2900, but even with brand new condition now, I find it hard to sell above $1300. That is only 44% of brand new price, because it is an older model replaced by a newer one, so factors like these comes into play.

Sigma 3rd party lens, even though its the art series, don't waste your time. Find another good deal.

There are many stubborn sellers selling their old sinky items for near to brand new prices or even higher, and make it a part time job to post that sale every 3 days, and calling every sincere buyer a low baller, they do this for months and eventually they register a new name to sell that item at more practical prices, and then realize that prices had fallen even more. Its just like most people's behavior on the stock market.

 

[kel500au]

I find it strange when the add states "low ballers will be ignored".

I find this an arrogant approach to selling anything. A sale is made when a seller and a purchaser agree on a price, regardless of the initial asking price. The item should sell at the going market price - which is dictated by the amount of exact same items available at the time and the urgency the seller would like to sell.

My attitude is I will offer a fair price for any item I am interested in on the BS board. If the buyer comes back to me with a counter offer then it is back in my court whether I want to accept the new price. In the end we can agree or both walk away.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[edutilos-]

I find it strange when the add states "low ballers will be ignored".

I find this an arrogant approach to selling anything. A sale is made when a seller and a purchaser agree on a price, regardless of the initial asking price. The item should sell at the going market price - which is dictated by the amount of exact same items available at the time and the urgency the seller would like to sell.

My attitude is I will offer a fair price for any item I am interested in on the BS board. If the buyer comes back to me with a counter offer then it is back in my court whether I want to accept the new price. In the end we can agree or both walk away.

Just my 2 cents worth.

My definition of a lowballer is someone who makes a ridiculous offer. There are others who define this to mean anyone who offers below their asking price, which isn't very fair, especially as others have pointed out, many sellers have unreasonable expectations of the second hand market. Take for example some of the Fujifilm X100S being sold for $1K or so, I wonder if they are even aware that SLR Revolution had a $9XX promo a while back and the street price is $10XX. Why would I only want a discount of less than $100 for something that is out of warranty?!

What is a ridiculous offer? People offering $250 for a second hand X-E1 when most sellers are selling it for $350-$400, and you have priced it at the lower end of the range.

I think it also helps if you explain your position, e.g. "I'm basing this on the last deal price listed in CS", and take a less abrupt/curt tone, e.g. "$250 fast deal" as a SMS tends to irk people especially when you are trying to get them to deal for lower.

My policy is clear - if you give me a ridiculous offer, I reserve the right to share your ridiculous offer and handphone number on the forum. Why? Because I've met people who try to slash price upon meetup, and when you check their history, there have been other users who complain about them lowballing. Lowballing on the spot after agreeing to deal even when the condition is as stated is even worse than lowballing through SMS in my opinion.

If you think the seller is asking for a ridiculous price, then don't bother SMS'ing them. Just wait for them to drop the price because if it is really ridiculous, no one will take it. If it's reasonable and they state that it's negotiable, this "negotiable price" is usually within the range of $50-$100 max.

 

[catchlights]

I find it strange when the add states "low ballers will be ignored".

I find this an arrogant approach to selling anything. A sale is made when a seller and a purchaser agree on a price, regardless of the initial asking price. The item should sell at the going market price - which is dictated by the amount of exact same items available at the time and the urgency the seller would like to sell.

My attitude is I will offer a fair price for any item I am interested in on the BS board. If the buyer comes back to me with a counter offer then it is back in my court whether I want to accept the new price. In the end we can agree or both walk away.

Just my 2 cents worth.

it simply says, "If you didn't hear from me is because your offer sucks!"

 

[JasonB]

I always sell cheap cheap so I sell fast fast. Usually deal in the same day with many buyers lining up want to buy.

On the other spectrum there are sellers who are selling SPOILT equipment for high price muahahahhaa cracks me up everytime. These are the people who will suck as salesman. The fundamental thing I do is put myself as the buyer and see if my offer is attractive or not. Because you see, I am NOT doing a business selling used gear, that is not my trade. I am getting RID of used gear, and I ALREADY got my money's worth out of them and I am not going to sweat over another $100 difference.

Get rid of it fast while there is still demand and while price had not depreciate so much. It is very hard to get extra $50 value out of stuff, but it is very easy to make it a good deal for others and get speed of money back in return. Fast money in, put it to other usage and opportunities.

 

[drcanonnikon]

One of the problems, I reckon, is Sellers Do NOT take into account Current Retail
Price but base their Asking price on their own Purchase Price few years ago.

A glaring example is Canon EF 70-200 f/2.8 mk2 which was being sold at about
$ 3200 just 2years ago. Many Sellers for this Lens asking for $ 2,200 and make a
Big Deal that they are losing $ 1,000 in just 2 years usage.

But Brand New Lens today after Canon Cash Back is Only at $ 2,300

So a prospective Buyer offering $ 1700-$ 1800 is then Branded a Lowballer

Is this fair ?

 

[overcrash]

If you think the asking price is high, then don't offer.
Why offer a price that the seller is not expecting in the first place and then complain when they say you lowball?
I think when people say negotiable, it means the offer price needs to be reasonable and most likely within $100 of a difference.
And I agreed that low ballers will be ignored.
Don't waste my time.

Recently i was selling a 4 months old phone for around 80% of street price with many accessories and a neg price.
The first offer? 50%.
Lol.

 

[sjackal]

One of the problems, I reckon, is Sellers Do NOT take into account Current Retail
Price but base their Asking price on their own Purchase Price few years ago.

A glaring example is Canon EF 70-200 f/2.8 mk2 which was being sold at about
$ 3200 just 2years ago. Many Sellers for this Lens asking for $ 2,200 and make a
Big Deal that they are losing $ 1,000 in just 2 years usage.

But Brand New Lens today after Canon Cash Back is Only at $ 2,300

So a prospective Buyer offering $ 1700-$ 1800 is then Branded a Lowballer

Is this fair ?

You can always brand him back as high baller too. Anyway money still on your pocket and he still stuck with that lens. I see you as the winner and his the one losing out a sale opportunity.

 

[kandinsky]

Seems to me a very arbitrary and subjective definition of what is A lowball price

Any thoughts please ?

Well, as you can see from the responses, your initial thought about it just about sums it up. Arbitrary and subjective. There's not going to be one definition that everyone agrees on.

One person's 'lowball' is another person's 'market price'.
One person's 'market price' is another person's 'rip-off'.

It's just part and parcel of dealing in a free market. At the end of the day, remember it's just trading of goods lah. No point fretting too much over what a stranger thinks of us

 

[trd2970]

Don't need to get too hung up on these terms

Just buy/sell at whatever price you are comfortable with

 

[vicdhika]

I think there's no low-ball or not. People just try their luck. For my mom, as long as it'a used, it should be 50% from then original. For my friend, he took good care, after 2 years, still looks good and mint. It should worth 60-70%. For me, if im happy with the price, then i buy. If the seller sells about 80% only, no warranty, used but taken care, then i prefer buy new one if that 20% is about less than 500sgd. I know it's a lot, but considering you get new one, and with warranty. U never know how the user used. He might tell u it's mint and it looks mint but actually the barrel changed due to a heavy knocked and the AF motor didnt change. After using 1-2 week, AF FAILS. End up spend 700-800sgd change stuff..

I think buying 2nd hand stuff, we must be ready for the worst. Cant hope everybody being honest and tell you i dropped before! If you cant take the risk, dont buy. Ask yourself, is it worth saving 50-200sgd to get a 2nd hand, no warranty and used?


Just my 2cent, please dont get offended.

 

[trd2970]

Agree
Imho i feel that it's because we're selling personal belongings hence a lot of emotions attached when people start offering low prices. Vice versa.

If get low offer just "lol" and move on. Don't need to mock or be sarcastic.

 

[obfuscate]

When I sell something and someone offers me a price that is substantially lower than what I asked for, I will reply to them as "Low Baller!".

It feels good. :bsmilie:

 

[drcanonnikon]

IMHO, there are too many Vigilantes trolling ClubSnap, trigger happy to launch
A tirade against any Buyer who Dare to Protest their Ask prices

In the first place if they set out all the criteria relating to their Item for Sale
Eg :-

1. Date of Original Purchase and Lens Code, if applicable
2. Whether in Complete set with Original Accessories
3. Availability of Receipt and Warranty Card
4. Any Cosmetic or Functional Issues
5. Reason for Selling (optional)

A sincere Buyer be more willing to meet their Ask price instead of what has
become a Norm of starting at 20-30% discount to Original Seller Ask price

Sure it's almost offensive and insulting for any Seller to be told his stuff is
Worth much less than advertised. There are some Sellers who intentionally
Inflate their Asking prices to allow for some negotiation but many are quick
To dismiss offers as being low-ball.

This state of anarchy and lawlessness needs to be remedied with Buyer
Seller protocols on Forum Etiquette and Pricing. It's time we preserved
The integrity of the Marketplace for our mutual benefit.

 

[ricleo]

When I sell something and someone offers me a price that is substantially lower than what I asked for, I will reply to them as "Low Baller!".

It feels good. :bsmilie:

hahahah maybe i should try doing that some time.... i usually just say your price offered is below expectations....now wonder i nvr feel good getting these unrealistic offers.

 

[edutilos-]

I think there's no low-ball or not. People just try their luck. For my mom, as long as it'a used, it should be 50% from then original. For my friend, he took good care, after 2 years, still looks good and mint. It should worth 60-70%. For me, if im happy with the price, then i buy. If the seller sells about 80% only, no warranty, used but taken care, then i prefer buy new one if that 20% is about less than 500sgd. I know it's a lot, but considering you get new one, and with warranty. U never know how the user used. He might tell u it's mint and it looks mint but actually the barrel changed due to a heavy knocked and the AF motor didnt change. After using 1-2 week, AF FAILS. End up spend 700-800sgd change stuff..

I think buying 2nd hand stuff, we must be ready for the worst. Cant hope everybody being honest and tell you i dropped before! If you cant take the risk, dont buy. Ask yourself, is it worth saving 50-200sgd to get a 2nd hand, no warranty and used?


Just my 2cent, please dont get offended.

...And if a consistent seller like myself, who has made significant amount of sales on CS B&S (which can be easily checked), but never have had any negative feedback, always list my full number without any intentions to disguise it (for whatever reason, I don't know, you can easily find the numbers if you just search random parts of it anyways)... Thereby indicating that buying a second-hand item from me would be relatively risk-free...

Does your whole write-up still apply?

I would like to think not.

 

[sjackal]

Sometimes got friends ask me, where to buy second hand camera? I refer them to those second hand shops, because usually got 6 months shop warranty. They asked about Clubsnap, I told them no warranty and price culture very high, not worth, if you bargain still got people scold you. They listened and agreed, the killing point is the warranty part, especially for people new to photography, they not confident enough to buy pre-owned.

Have you guys noticed the BNS forum had slowed down a lot over the years? The photography hobby trend kinda slowed down with less new hobbyists joining. Used gear is getting hard to move, especially DSLR gear as more casual shooters move into mirrorless.

 

[edutilos-]

Sometimes got friends ask me, where to buy second hand camera? I refer them to those second hand shops, because usually got 6 months shop warranty. They asked about Clubsnap, I told them no warranty and price culture very high, not worth, if you bargain still got people scold you. They listened and agreed, the killing point is the warranty part, especially for people new to photography, they not confident enough to buy pre-owned. Have you guys noticed the BNS forum had slowed down a lot over the years? The photography hobby trend kinda slowed down with less new hobbyists joining. Used gear is getting hard to move, especially DSLR gear as more casual shooters move into mirrorless.

Not if you price your second hand goods reasonably, other than bags I still manage to sell off my stuff easily enough.