Leica m9 problem, can anyone help?

[sequitur]

Is what I said uncalled for? Have your questions not been answered? Please don't see it as a personal attack.

I'll try to explain it to you so that you might have a better chance of understanding.

If daylight colour temperature is 5500K and incandescent lighting 2700K, you can only set your white balance so that only one of these is corrected. It doesn't matter how you get this setting - whether it's by manually entering in the colour temperature in camera, using a white-balance cap, manually setting white balance by shooting a neutral grey card, setting the white balance in post processing, etc.

You could avoid this problem by shooting black and white.
Or you could light it artificially with light the same colour temperature as daylight.
Or you could try to post-process and set white balance differently for foreground / background / reflections of background in foreground. But I think this is a lot of work (too much), and you wouldn't bother.

Example of how this can be useful though, is if you shoot outdoors, put a orange gel over your flash and set your white balance to incandescent. Your blue sky will become super blue, but your subject, lit by the orange flash will appear neutral.

Do you understand?

This is actually very high level of mastery of white balance control - and to the thread starter, you should really sit down and take the time to really figure out what he has just typed here.

There's a lot of technical stuff in this short post that probably the majority of photographers don't even bother trying to understand (yes, me included), and we simply just resort to photoshop/lightroom for our color balance troubles.

The truth is - playing with sliders in photoshop and lightroom will make your job easier than trying to understand the above... but understanding the above probably really makes one a true digital photographer.

 

[adamadam]

It's too difficult for me, so I shoot black and white.

Not mastery, I've just rephrased what was posted before.

 

[NakhedCouture]

This is actually very high level of mastery of white balance control - and to the thread starter, you should really sit down and take the time to really figure out what he has just typed here.

There's a lot of technical stuff in this short post that probably the majority of photographers don't even bother trying to understand (yes, me included), and we simply just resort to photoshop/lightroom for our color balance troubles.

The truth is - playing with sliders in photoshop and lightroom will make your job easier than trying to understand the above... but understanding the above probably really makes one a true digital photographer.

What Adam said, is of course something that i will keep in mind, as i've said many many times, that i'm here to learn. I would love to learn to correct the color straight from the camera, without having to pp it, hence the problem, and questions.

Thanks again to Adam, for the explanations.

 

[catchlights]

white balance issue, noting to do with the camera.

when there is more than one type of light source in the scene, you can only set it to one type of white balance, that depends on which you want to use it as primary light source.


for your example here, the foreground is tungsten light, and background is daylight,
if you set camera white balance to daylight, the background is color balanced nicely but foreground will be very warm,
and if you set camera white balance to tungsten light, foreground WB is matching but the background is blue.

and you can't set the white balance somewhere in between, as the white balance for both light source will be off.


there are couple of ways to deal with these,

#1, covert one of the color tempreture of one light source to match with anther, by
use flash, or
use gal

#2, shoot raw, use layer mask with blending in photoshop.

#3, shoot in B&W

 

[brownbagboy]

This is actually very high level of mastery of white balance control - and to the thread starter, you should really sit down and take the time to really figure out what he has just typed here.

There's a lot of technical stuff in this short post that probably the majority of photographers don't even bother trying to understand (yes, me included), and we simply just resort to photoshop/lightroom for our color balance troubles.

The truth is - playing with sliders in photoshop and lightroom will make your job easier than trying to understand the above... but understanding the above probably really makes one a true digital photographer.

It's all here... it doesn't need to be complicated Shoot in RAW

 

[Riotbmx]

It's all here... it doesn't need to be complicated Shoot in RAW

That's the lazy approach

 

[NazgulKing]

That's the lazy approach

The M9 is well known for having a messed up WB and jpeg file production anyway. Only way to take advantage of the camera is to shoot in raw.

 

[brownbagboy]

Riot, like I said... it doesn't have to be complicated... but that doesn't mean I don't know how to or don't want to set the right WB from the onset

 

[Riotbmx]

The M9 is well known for having a messed up WB and jpeg file production anyway. Only way to take advantage of the camera is to shoot in raw.

Which makes it a very expensive lomo camera if you don't shoot RAW and do post processing?

Riot, like I said... it doesn't have to be complicated... but that doesn't mean I don't know how to or don't want to set the right WB from the onset

There's no mention of you not knowing or don't want to do it. Have a nice Sunday

Edit. Monday. Sorry forgot what day is it as I'm on holiday

 

[gerigo]

Saw your question in a couple other forums as well. I have a couple thoughts I want to share I hope you don't get offended. This is in the hopes perhaps that we are able to help you better in the future, and that we can all learn from one another. The thoughts are really around how you ask the question, more than trying to answer the technical aspect of the question itself as many others have done a great job.

It's perhaps safe to say that you're probably very early in your exploration as an amateur photographer as the question you ask is quite basic. Something that most of us here who have played around with a camera for a little while now will have encountered and understood, controlled and mastered. Unfortunately the way you ask the question will rub many the wrong way. First is that despite the fact you're a newbie, you chose to start out with what is perhaps the most expensive 35mm camera that's currently available. Rub no. 1. Second is that from your question, you seem to have this expectation that having spent that large sum of money, this magical camera would instantly deliver photography miracles. Rub no.2. Your question goes to prove the old adage that most people who buy Leicas are people with more money than sense.

Your heart comes from a good place, as you expressly stated you're here to learn. Perhaps asking the question in a way where you put yourself in a position of humility, and say something like " I am learning more about photography so please could you help me explain why ..... is happening? Could it be the camera as I am quite new to it?"

As for learning, not only just shoot, but also read A LOT. See examples of what others are doing. Ask a lot of questions. BTW as for your question, the final solution is to use a flash. You could set the white balance for the predominant background temperature and light your central focus with the flash.

 

[ExplorerII]

You may want to check this out: leica.overgaard.dk - Thorsten Overgaard's Leica Pages - Leica M9 Digital Rangefinder Camera - Page 17: "Light metering with the Leica M9 and Leica M9-P and Leica M Monochrom".

There is something on white balance.

 

[ExplorerII]

As for learning, not only just shoot, but also read A LOT. See examples of what others are doing. Ask a lot of questions. BTW as for your question, the final solution is to use a flash. You could set the white balance for the predominant background temperature and light your central focus with the flash.

Using a flash will not solve his "blue background" problem.

 

[zixaw]

There are some cameras that have great jpeg output out of the camera. It is also great to get everything right straight from the camera right from the beginning. But I personally feel that if you are not shooting in raw and you do not do any post processing when using a M9, it is like driving a Ferrari but never shifting past 2nd gear. In my opinion, use all the tools at your disposal to create the best image possible.

I am not saying post process/photoshop the hell out of the image but it is okay to tweak it a little sometimes and there is just so much information that is captured in a M9 raw file that will make the image look so much better.

Even when developing film and making prints there is a certain level of post processing involved even though it does not involve the computer but rather timing and chemicals.

 

[NakhedCouture]

Saw your question in a couple other forums as well. I have a couple thoughts I want to share I hope you don't get offended. This is in the hopes perhaps that we are able to help you better in the future, and that we can all learn from one another. The thoughts are really around how you ask the question, more than trying to answer the technical aspect of the question itself as many others have done a great job.

It's perhaps safe to say that you're probably very early in your exploration as an amateur photographer as the question you ask is quite basic. Something that most of us here who have played around with a camera for a little while now will have encountered and understood, controlled and mastered. Unfortunately the way you ask the question will rub many the wrong way. First is that despite the fact you're a newbie, you chose to start out with what is perhaps the most expensive 35mm camera that's currently available. Rub no. 1. Second is that from your question, you seem to have this expectation that having spent that large sum of money, this magical camera would instantly deliver photography miracles. Rub no.2. Your question goes to prove the old adage that most people who buy Leicas are people with more money than sense.

Your heart comes from a good place, as you expressly stated you're here to learn. Perhaps asking the question in a way where you put yourself in a position of humility, and say something like " I am learning more about photography so please could you help me explain why ..... is happening? Could it be the camera as I am quite new to it?"

As for learning, not only just shoot, but also read A LOT. See examples of what others are doing. Ask a lot of questions. BTW as for your question, the final solution is to use a flash. You could set the white balance for the predominant background temperature and light your central focus with the flash.

When i saw you stated "Saw your question in a couple other forums as well." I thought, Hmm..not true, but i'll just let it slide. But as i read on, You sir, is something else. So here goes..

As the thread starter myelf, PLEASE direct me to those other couple forums that you mentioned, as i KNOW, i only posted here, and 1 other forum. So PLEASE tell me, which other couple forums did i posted on?? And you mentioned, it is a matter on HOW i asked the questions?? i read my post again and again, and truly i am confused by your statement.

"First is that despite the fact you're a newbie, you chose to start out with what is perhaps the most expensive 35mm camera that's currently available. "
So, you're pretty offended that i bought a Leica M9 to start my rangefinder journey? Wow..Bitter much?? I'm pretty sure, how i spent my money, is definitely none of your business. Lol, after reading your comment again, i really found it ridiculous..Seriously, jealousy much? If you're going to help with my problem, then help, need not to start with all this nonsense..lol..

"Rub no. 1. Second is that from your question, you seem to have this expectation that having spent that large sum of money, this magical camera would instantly deliver photography miracles."
Again, please direct me to which part of my post that, that was my expectation? And you mentioned 'Large Sum of Money' Umm..You have money issues?? When and which on my post, that i mentioned or indicated or RUB you that, i spent 'Large Sum of Money' on this camera and lenses and i expect miracles..? Somehow i feel you're very bitter..i feel sorry for you now..

"Rub no.2. Your question goes to prove the old adage that most people who buy Leicas are people with more money than sense."
Hmm..You accused me of having more money than sense. And early on your post you expect me not to get offended, REALLY?? I chose Leica as my tool to start my journey into learning rangefinder photography, what's wrong with that? Moreover, how's that your business?? And seriously, if i think like how you stated, i wouldn't even bother posting here, and tried to learn. And if i have MORE MONEY than sense, i would have bought a M9P with a nocti, and 24lux, and bragged on how this lenses are not performing well!!

My questions on my post was pretty clear, i DID NOT blame the camera, i was clearly asking why those problems occured, i was merely asking for help.

I guessed you're really bitter, as you went out of your way to register, and post here, as your first post.

But hey, thanks for the help on my problem, i hope i don't offend or Rub you in anyway.

 

[NakhedCouture]

Using a flash will not solve his "blue background" problem.

You better be careful with your reply, it'll rub him in the wrong way.

 

[NazgulKing]

I guessed you're really bitter, as you went out of your way to register, and post here, as your first post.

But hey, thanks for the help on my problem, i hope i don't offend or Rub you in anyway.

He's American. Some of them are so opinionated, they feel obligated to voice their opinion even if it cost them some trouble to do so! :bsmilie:

And it gets worse when an election is coming along...

 

[NakhedCouture]

He's American. Some of them are so opinionated, they feel obligated to voice their opinion even if it cost them some trouble to do so! :bsmilie:

And it gets worse when an election is coming along...

To think that he has to actually register and wait, and finally replied. :bsmilie:

 

[ExplorerII]

You better be careful with your reply, it'll rub him in the wrong way.

Just helping a fellow countryman. Anyway, by saying that, it shows he doesn't understand WB.

 

[Riotbmx]

Just helping a fellow countryman. Anyway, by saying that, it shows he doesn't understand WB.

Agree. Using a flash with orange gel will not change the background because the light from the flash will never change the background. Someone mentioned this technique earlier, but that's for a different situation where the subject is slightly blue with the blue sky as background, using the flash with orange gel can correct the WB for the subject without turning the blue sky grey. But for TS case it's different, the people will look like lobsters and the background will still be blue if you shoot that way

 

[NakhedCouture]

Just helping a fellow countryman. Anyway, by saying that, it shows he doesn't understand WB.

Wow..all that, and he doesn't even know what he's talking about..I am speechless.