Leica m9 problem, can anyone help?

[NakhedCouture]

I am fairly new to Leica, i bought myself an M9 a few months ago, and been in love with the images it produces, and not once that i remember, that i've ever encountered this problem.

As you can see on some images, there's a strong blue lighting on the backlit and some of the reflections. What could cause this blue backlit?

I tried the whibal card with different isos and shutter speed, i tried auto whibal with different shutter speed, and i've tried auto whibal and auto shutter speed, still on some pics, this blue reflections came on strong.

What could be the problem here?

For information, the lenses i used are 50lux latest edition, 28cron latest edition.

28cron f2.8 iso 80 1/125 sec (as seen, bluish color on the background)

50lux f1.7 iso 160 1/180 sec (background was pretty bright, somehow became blue)

50lux f1.7 iso 160 1/180 sec (pretty clear reflection on meat, table and anything with reflection from background was very blue)

50lux f2 iso 160 1/90 sec

 

[adamadam]

Could it be that the white balance for the background is different for the foreground?

Eg, if your white balance is for tungsten.(or if auto white balance or grey card gives the white.balance for tungsten), then your daylight background becomes blue.

 

[sabrewolf]

This is common when shooting grill meat inside Korean/Japanese restaurant (I know I've tried many times). The lighting above the grill tend to be halogen yellow warm color while the rest of the restaurant is your standard fluorescent white (actually greenish)/or the sunlight outside is white. The camera is trying to compensate the yellow light by adding blue color, that is why the meat above looks natural. This in turn cause the restaurant standard lighting/ the sunlight from outdoor window to turns from whitish to blue (Thats the blue reflection.

 

[Double Negative]

That's normal - and basically a difference in color temperatures. If you had the camera pointed up (or down) initially, then re-composed, it's likely that the white balance was fooled by the two. Problem is, if you correct for one - the other will be off (and vice versa). So the best step is:

Did you shoot DNG? Or JPEG? If the former, it's very easy to add some warmth to the photos during import. Just move the slider until things look a little more normal (and make note of the settings for application to other photos in the series so they match).

 

[NakhedCouture]

Could it be that the white balance for the background is different for the foreground?

Eg, if your white balance is for tungsten.(or if auto white balance or grey card gives the white.balance for tungsten), then your daylight background becomes blue.

I set the white balance 'Manual', and then i shot with a white balance card, to get the natural color. Somehow, the backlit turned out blue. I know if i set to tungsten, image will appear bluish, same if i set to indoor, the image will turn orange-ish, but what confused me is, white balance was set to manual, and backlit was blue.

This is common when shooting grill meat inside Korean/Japanese restaurant (I know I've tried many times). The lighting above the grill tend to be halogen yellow warm color while the rest of the restaurant is your standard fluorescent white (actually greenish)/or the sunlight outside is white. The camera is trying to compensate the yellow light by adding blue color, that is why the meat above looks natural. This in turn cause the restaurant standard lighting/ the sunlight from outdoor window to turns from whitish to blue (Thats the blue reflection.

Actually, this didn't happen only in the restaurant, as you could see on the first image, it was taken on raffles shopping arcade, and in the background, you could see a blue backlit.

That's normal - and basically a difference in color temperatures. If you had the camera pointed up (or down) initially, then re-composed, it's likely that the white balance was fooled by the two. Problem is, if you correct for one - the other will be off (and vice versa). So the best step is:

Did you shoot DNG? Or JPEG? If the former, it's very easy to add some warmth to the photos during import. Just move the slider until things look a little more normal (and make note of the settings for application to other photos in the series so they match).

i Shot DNG, post processing is an easy step, i know. What i want to avoid is that, i don't get that blue backlit when i shot an image, so i can just get beautiful natural color out of the camera, without having to post process all the time.

That's what i want to learn.

Thank you for all the help gentlemen.

 

[Riotbmx]

That's a very expensive lomo camera

 

[adamadam]

I set the white balance 'Manual', and then i shot with a white balance card, to get the natural color. Somehow, the backlit turned out blue. I know if i set to tungsten, image will appear bluish, same if i set to indoor, the image will turn orange-ish, but what confused me is, white balance was set to manual, and backlit was blue.

Actually, this didn't happen only in the restaurant, as you could see on the first image, it was taken on raffles shopping arcade, and in the background, you could see a blue backlit.



i Shot DNG, post processing is an easy step, i know. What i want to avoid is that, i don't get that blue backlit when i shot an image, so i can just get beautiful natural color out of the camera, without having to post process all the time.

That's what i want to learn.

Thank you for all the help gentlemen.

I think you still don't get it.

Shoot black and white.

 

[sequitur]

Clearly an issue with white balance.. and since you are setting white balance manually, it's likely user error.

Please check out how to accurately use a white balance card.... you have to make sure it is being "affected" by the light source to get the camera to balance WB accurately.

If you have no idea how to use a WB card, then use a WB lens cap which will make your job easier.

If you still don't know how on earth to use any of the WB tools, then just set everything to automatic and correct everything in post-processing.


IF.. however... IF... the problem is that you bought a $9000 camera with $5000 lens and you expect that it's going to be "fully automatic" and will turn you into Henri... then perhaps you are better off just buying a normal DSLR - which will save you a few thousand bucks and has (arguably) MUCH better white balancing features than a Leica M9.


Good luck.

 

[crispy12]

I think you still don't get it.
Shoot black and white.

That's a very expensive lomo camera

Please don't be be mean or condescending.

NakhedCoutoure, forget the white balance card for now and try manually setting the WB using the preset settings and see if you can understand how the colours change. As mentioned above you can only adjust WB using available light to one setting, so can't have completely accurate WB for sunlight and indoor light at the same time. If the colours are not accurate then use the manual kelvin setting and try a range of settings. Personally I try to set the WB if I'm shooting a lot in one scene (eg restaurant) rather than leave it to auto. But if I don't have time then I just leave it on auto and adjust at home.

 

[Riotbmx]

Please don't be be mean or condescending.

NakhedCoutoure, forget the white balance card for now and try manually setting the WB using the preset settings and see if you can understand how the colours change. As mentioned above you can only adjust WB using available light to one setting, so can't have completely accurate WB for sunlight and indoor light at the same time. If the colours are not accurate then use the manual kelvin setting and try a range of settings. Personally I try to set the WB if I'm shooting a lot in one scene (eg restaurant) rather than leave it to auto. But if I don't have time then I just leave it on auto and adjust at home.

Chill, it's just a joke. But they really look like photos taken by a lomo camera, no?

 

[crispy12]

Chill, it's just a joke. But they really look like photos taken by a lomo camera, no?

I like my lomo shots with a bit more intense orange hue and vignetting

 

[NakhedCouture]

That's a very expensive lomo camera

Yeah, lol..feels good to be able to afford it tho, and spend some on lenses too.

I think you still don't get it.

Shoot black and white.

Hmm, thats why i'm here to learn. If you can't explain, or have the patience, feel free to ignore?

Clearly an issue with white balance.. and since you are setting white balance manually, it's likely user error.

Please check out how to accurately use a white balance card.... you have to make sure it is being "affected" by the light source to get the camera to balance WB accurately.

If you have no idea how to use a WB card, then use a WB lens cap which will make your job easier.

If you still don't know how on earth to use any of the WB tools, then just set everything to automatic and correct everything in post-processing.


IF.. however... IF... the problem is that you bought a $9000 camera with $5000 lens and you expect that it's going to be "fully automatic" and will turn you into Henri... then perhaps you are better off just buying a normal DSLR - which will save you a few thousand bucks and has (arguably) MUCH better white balancing features than a Leica M9.


Good luck.

I will learn on how to use the camera and the whibal card better, i just thought i posted here, to learn from some of the masters here. Thanks for the input, and IF i really really can't use it, i'll just shoot more with it, i'm happy with the purchase, and the process of learning it.

Please don't be be mean or condescending.

NakhedCoutoure, forget the white balance card for now and try manually setting the WB using the preset settings and see if you can understand how the colours change. As mentioned above you can only adjust WB using available light to one setting, so can't have completely accurate WB for sunlight and indoor light at the same time. If the colours are not accurate then use the manual kelvin setting and try a range of settings. Personally I try to set the WB if I'm shooting a lot in one scene (eg restaurant) rather than leave it to auto. But if I don't have time then I just leave it on auto and adjust at home.

Hi Kind sir, thank you for taking the time to help me, yeah, i'll try around the white balance settings on the camera. Thanks for the input!

Chill, it's just a joke. But they really look like photos taken by a lomo camera, no?

A nice sarcastic joke i might add? I don't own a lomo, so i can't really agree with you. But have fun with it, if you have one.

Cheers.

 

[Riotbmx]

I like my lomo shots with a bit more intense orange hue and vignetting

Screw on a 85b and add a longer lens hood and you'll have it

 

[Riotbmx]

A nice sarcastic joke i might add? I don't own a lomo, so i can't really agree with you. But have fun with it, if you have one.

Cheers.

Nope, it's just a joke so don't take it too hard. I actually thought its really nice that you are trying to make photos straight out of the camera and do adjustment before you shoot much like how we shoot film. Because too many people who does digital imagery overdo with their post processing and kills it, while others don't even bother getting the right setting knowing that most things can be adjusted in the computer later. Well not everyone who does digital imaging are like that, but most of the stuff we see posted are. Nothing wrong with it, just not my cup of tea.

Edit. Btw I don't own a lomo cam either, I use a $200 semi professional SLR but sadly sometimes the images turns out worse than those from lomo cams

 

[NakhedCouture]

Nope, it's just a joke so don't take it too hard. I actually thought its really nice that you are trying to make photos straight out of the camera and do adjustment before you shoot much like how we shoot film. Because too many people who does digital imagery overdo with their post processing and kills it, while others don't even bother getting the right setting knowing that most things can be adjusted in the computer later. Well not everyone who does digital imaging are like that, but most of the stuff we see posted are. Nothing wrong with it, just not my cup of tea.

Edit. Btw I don't own a lomo cam either, I use a $200 semi professional SLR but sadly sometimes the images turns out worse than those from lomo cams

Well, i'm learning, tho i'm not gonna lie, some digital images, which some has been post processed heavily, i found some pretty amazing. like those HDR effect, can't really understand why people do it, but i do found some images are nice. But hey, to each their own right? Some love it, some like it, some hate it, but if we don't like it, why don't we shut it, and let others who likes it, enjoy them.

Appreciate on your thought, i do try to make things right straight from the camera, tho i love tweaking images on computer, but why tweak, if we can get it right the first time?

Cheers.

 

[adamadam]

Please don't be be mean or condescending.

NakhedCoutoure, forget the white balance card for now and try manually setting the WB using the preset settings and see if you can understand how the colours change. As mentioned above you can only adjust WB using available light to one setting, so can't have completely accurate WB for sunlight and indoor light at the same time. If the colours are not accurate then use the manual kelvin setting and try a range of settings. Personally I try to set the WB if I'm shooting a lot in one scene (eg restaurant) rather than leave it to auto. But if I don't have time then I just leave it on auto and adjust at home.

I don't intend to be mean or condescending but the question has been answered a few times, but TS doesn't believe so.

We are all always learning, and learning isn't effortless.

I recognise you from OCAU!

 

[adamadam]

Could it be that the white balance for the background is different for the foreground?

Eg, if your white balance is for tungsten.(or if auto white balance or grey card gives the white.balance for tungsten), then your daylight background becomes blue.

This is common when shooting grill meat inside Korean/Japanese restaurant (I know I've tried many times). The lighting above the grill tend to be halogen yellow warm color while the rest of the restaurant is your standard fluorescent white (actually greenish)/or the sunlight outside is white. The camera is trying to compensate the yellow light by adding blue color, that is why the meat above looks natural. This in turn cause the restaurant standard lighting/ the sunlight from outdoor window to turns from whitish to blue (Thats the blue reflection.

That's normal - and basically a difference in color temperatures. If you had the camera pointed up (or down) initially, then re-composed, it's likely that the white balance was fooled by the two. Problem is, if you correct for one - the other will be off (and vice versa). So the best step is:

Did you shoot DNG? Or JPEG? If the former, it's very easy to add some warmth to the photos during import. Just move the slider until things look a little more normal (and make note of the settings for application to other photos in the series so they match).

I think you still don't get it.

Shoot black and white.

Is what I said uncalled for? Have your questions not been answered? Please don't see it as a personal attack.

I'll try to explain it to you so that you might have a better chance of understanding.

If daylight colour temperature is 5500K and incandescent lighting 2700K, you can only set your white balance so that only one of these is corrected. It doesn't matter how you get this setting - whether it's by manually entering in the colour temperature in camera, using a white-balance cap, manually setting white balance by shooting a neutral grey card, setting the white balance in post processing, etc.

You could avoid this problem by shooting black and white.
Or you could light it artificially with light the same colour temperature as daylight.
Or you could try to post-process and set white balance differently for foreground / background / reflections of background in foreground. But I think this is a lot of work (too much), and you wouldn't bother.

Example of how this can be useful though, is if you shoot outdoors, put a orange gel over your flash and set your white balance to incandescent. Your blue sky will become super blue, but your subject, lit by the orange flash will appear neutral.

Do you understand?

 

[ophyls]

When I see this sort of colour cast, I usually toggle between 'auto' and 'as shot' under white balance in Lightroom and usually the blue goes...good luck!

 

[ExplorerII]

Not everything can look good in black and white. However, if the white balance is totally off, since you shot in DNG, you can still convert your files to black and white if your problems cannot be resolved with PP.

 

[obfuscate]

This is so easy to replicate. Just need two different source of light and shoot with AWB. I can practically do this now with my computer screen and the wall lit up with my flourescent light, can never get both right! :bsmilie: