Kodak Tri-X development

[Riotbmx]

So A bunch of us bought a whole lot of Arista Premium and I'm sure there are plenty of faithful users of this great film as well. This thread is for everyone to share their development procedures so others can try if it turned out good or not make the same mistake if things screwed up.


I kinda screwed up my first roll. I usually only do HC110 dilution B, but I tried dilution G today instead. I got pretty bad uneven development. Prolly didn't load the film properly.

 

[zgim80]

I'm a lazy developer and even though I am a chemist, I don't particularly enjoy temperature control unless machine controlled.

Because of this, I have only ever used Diafine in all my B&W processing. Fixed timing for all ISOs with two baths and fix (3+3+4), no requirement to adjust for temperature is good for me.

Not very in-the-know about acutance and grain structure, all I know is my processing is good enough for my own consumption

 

[raytoei]

very nice indeed. i used to do home development but stopped when i moved in with the in-laws.
now i am waiting for fotohub. i read that tri-x develops very well with D-76 (ID-11). so i am
quite excited. also tri-x is quite creamy smooth at 320iso. i shot at iso 800 so it will be interesting
to see the results.

check out Anders Peterson, he uses a contax t3 with Kodak rated at iso 400.
check out also Ralph Gibson, who uses a leica with summicron and tri-x. He claims to always overexpose and overdevelop.
notice that the images from peterson and gibson are totally different.

of coss, if we can agree that the negative is like the music score, then the final picture would be like the music being played.

this was a picture taken last year, m4-p with 35 cron, tri-x with hc110.

 

[Riotbmx]

very nice indeed. i used to do home development but stopped when i moved in with the in-laws.
now i am waiting for fotohub. i read that tri-x develops very well with D-76 (ID-11). so i am
quite excited. also tri-x is quite creamy smooth at 320iso. i shot at iso 800 so it will be interesting
to see the results.

check out Anders Peterson, he uses a contax t3 with Kodak rated at iso 400.
check out also Ralph Gibson, who uses a leica with summicron and tri-x. He claims to always overexpose and overdevelop.
notice that the images from peterson and gibson are totally different.

of coss, if we can agree that the negative is like the music score, then the final picture would be like the music being played.

this was a picture taken last year, m4-p with 35 cron, tri-x with hc110.

Totally love this shot!

BTW I got a friend who develop his Trix in XTOL and the results are amazing

 

[sinned79]

I'm a lazy developer and even though I am a chemist, I don't particularly enjoy temperature control unless machine controlled.

Because of this, I have only ever used Diafine in all my B&W processing. Fixed timing for all ISOs with two baths and fix (3+3+4), no requirement to adjust for temperature is good for me.

Not very in-the-know about acutance and grain structure, all I know is my processing is good enough for my own consumption

nice!

think I will try explore using diafine after I finish my HC110.

btw I read that there is infinite use for diafine meaning u can reuse and reuse... is that true?

i was looking at diafine and it seems that it comes in 2 or 3 packaging and I am suppose to do some mixing... got a little confuse here.

 

[zgim80]

sinned: Diafine comes in a 2 solution system. In the box are 2 packs, Solution A and Solution B. Each powder pack is to be dissolved to make 1 gallon (3.7 litres).

Develop in A (3 mins normally, at most temperatures), then develop in B (3 mins normally, at most temperatures). Then fix.

Been using this batch for more than a year now.

 

[sinned79]

sinned: Diafine comes in a 2 solution system. In the box are 2 packs, Solution A and Solution B. Each powder pack is to be dissolved to make 1 gallon (3.7 litres).

Develop in A (3 mins normally, at most temperatures), then develop in B (3 mins normally, at most temperatures). Then fix.

Been using this batch for more than a year now.

oh cool! so u recycle and use?

 

[zgim80]

yeah, some sedimentation will take place but will not affect the processing.

 

[Riotbmx]

For those who are too lazy to google...

 

[raytoei]

fotohub in d76. iso 800 on the olympus 35 dc
in post processing, i added contrast, brightness etc

 

[losheng]

Just a little note on the timing of HC-110 dil B with Tri-X: this has been the subject of great debates for many years - because the timing looks suspiciously short. And the fact is that the negs you get from a 3:45 of processing at 20 deg C is pretty thin. The neg is printable and scannable, but it is suspiciously thin. Some has claimed that Kodak has made a printing error - confusing the timing of Dilution B from Dilution A. Others have said that the great latitude of Tri-X allows thin neg to be totally usable. No one really knows. But most people are more comfortable with a timing of around 6:30.

Have fun - for those of you that use Tri-X with dilution B - let us know what you think!

For the fellow fans of HC-110, you might already knew about this fantastic site:

The Unofficial HC-110 Resource Page

For those who are too lazy to google...

 

[Riotbmx]

Just a little note on the timing of HC-110 dil B with Tri-X: this has been the subject of great debates for many years - because the timing looks suspiciously short. And the fact is that the negs you get from a 3:45 of processing at 20 deg C is pretty thin. The neg is printable and scannable, but it is suspiciously thin. Some has claimed that Kodak has made a printing error - confusing the timing of Dilution B from Dilution A. Others have said that the great latitude of Tri-X allows thin neg to be totally usable. No one really knows. But most people are more comfortable with a timing of around 6:30.

Have fun - for those of you that use Tri-X with dilution B - let us know what you think!

For the fellow fans of HC-110, you might already knew about this fantastic site:

The Unofficial HC-110 Resource Page

I raised that question to Patrick a few weeks back, I told him I found contradicting developing timings for Tri-X. He said just follow the Kodak recommended timing, I told him its seems way too short. But he said its ok to have short developing time, its actually good. That's prolly the reason why I tried dilution G for last night, but sadly the negs were touching each other resulting in uneven development. Its ok, I got 40 more rolls to try and get it right

 

[losheng]

Well, I've done it at 3:45 before, so I know it isn't disastrous or anything - but, it is thin.

Since you are pretty much a one-lens, one-camera kind of purist (that I should be too), I think you should take the lead to settle the score - do a proper zone calibration of your equipment. We have a densitometer, so you can get the whole pipeline calibrated. (Ok, we don't yet have a Kodak gray card yet - just to be really anal - give us a while to get one )

ls

I raised that question to Patrick a few weeks back, I told him I found contradicting developing timings for Tri-X. He said just follow the Kodak recommended timing, I told him its seems way too short. But he said its ok to have short developing time, its actually good. That's prolly the reason why I tried dilution G for last night, but sadly the negs were touching each other resulting in uneven development. Its ok, I got 40 more rolls to try and get it right

 

[zgim80]

losheng: Thin or thick is down to personal preference perhaps? Having on seen negatives from D76 and Diafine, I don't really have a good comparison of what constitutes really thin negatives based on processing.

Perhaps we can have a personal graduation of "thin" to "thick" negatives for reference.

A more generic sample can be seen here:Assessing negatives

This picture was from negatives I deemed to be "thin" but still somehow came out fine.

Maybe my scanning chui hahah

 

[weihsuan]

Hi all,

With regards to Kodak HC-110 Developer - Unofficial Resource Page,

there is an equation
"New time = Old time × exp(-0.081 × (New temp °C - Old temp °C))"

and also, a rough gauge for timing between dilutions
"
Dilution D Develop 25% longer than with Dilution B
Dilution E Develop 50% longer than with Dilution B
Dilution F Develop 2.5 times as long as with Dilution B
"

I've been toying with the idea of developing TriX in HC110 at room temperature for convenience. Perhaps for TriX shot at 400-1600iso.

I have an excel spread sheet to convert timings from Massive Development Chart to timing required for the dilution and temperature (29'C) I want using the equations above. I've tried a few rolls and mostly are fine for my own hobbyist purpose.

An example of the conversion:
From Chart: TriX, 400iso, HC110, 20'C, Dilution B: 7.5mins
After conversion: TriX, 400iso, HC110, 29'C, Dilution E: 5.42mins

The potential problem I see is when timing gets real short (for 400ISO, Dilution B and 29'C), the development might not be adequate due to the nonlinearity nature of the rate of chemical reaction (Arrhenius equation).

Anyone does similar experiments before and care to share their findings?

Thanks!

Sample shot: TriX, 400iso, HC110, 29'C, Dilution E: 5.5mins

 

[raytoei]

fyi...i used to develop only in room temperature, i made sure it was around 29-31c.
for the timing, i would use roughly half the time of 20C. actually the time is lesser but
this is a good starting point.

 

[sinned79]

very informative thread.

i only develop in dilution B... for tri-x I only shot once but since its my first roll think i screwed up haha.

anyway i try to use room temp ard 28 degrees... cos i find it hard to maintain at 20 degrees (even after pouring cold water from fridge)... the lowest i ever go is 24 degrees.

 

[weihsuan]

Thanks Raytoei for the feedback. The way I do is is I'll measure the chemical temperature and input it into my excel to know the timing.

Another reason to develop at room temperature is the unavoidable heating up of chemicals. Most chill the developer to say 18'C and if at the end of the development it gets to 22'C, you get an average of 20'C. But I find it too troublesome and the process of heating of developer is a function of development time, so deciding the starting temperature is a little tough.

Also, perhaps this equation can be used for other film in HC110, but I'm kinda fulltime on triX.

Besides trying to play with temperature, I'm also trying to find a way to map the reusability of HC110. ie. how much developing time to increase with each development.

Cheers

 

[nstclicks]

Here's a spreadsheet I came up with to calculate developing times for different temperatures and dilutions http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12459407/Time-temperature%20converter.xls based on the Digital Truth and the Unofficial HC-110 Resource page. Parameters are based on HC-110 information, but probably works for other developers as well.

I only really use HC-110 for Neopan nowadays. For Tri-X, Diafine is defintely the way to go

 

[Riotbmx]

I just did Tri-X @800 in dilution A for 5:25mins. Took out and the neg looks cloudy, I think my fixer is exhausted. Dump in again for a few mins now it looks fine.

Anyone willing to share their process @800?

Edit. Looking at the negs it doesn't look too good, too contrasty.