K5 vs KX Pt II

[tsammyc]

Camera Pentax K-x
Exposure 0.05 sec (1/20)
Aperture f/8.0
Focal Length 31 mm
Focal Length 31.0 mm
ISO Speed 6400
Exposure Bias 0 EV
Flash Off, Did not fire
Orientation Horizontal (normal)
X-Resolution 72 dpi
Y-Resolution 72 dpi
Software K-x Ver 1.00
Date and Time (Modified) 2010:10:17 11:01:10
YCbCr Positioning Co-sited
Exposure Program Aperture-priority AE
Date and Time (Original) 2010:10:17 11:01:10
Date and Time (Digitized) 2010:10:17 11:01:10
Metering Mode Spot
Color Space sRGB
Sensing Method One-chip color area
Custom Rendered Normal
Exposure Mode Auto
White Balance Auto
Focal Length In35mm Format 46 mm
Scene Capture Type Standard
Contrast Normal
Saturation Normal
Sharpness Soft
Subject Distance Range Close
Pentax Version 5.1.0.0
Pentax Model Type 0
Preview Image Size 640x480
Preview Image Length 23002
Preview Image Start 12744
Pentax Model ID Unknown (0x12dfe)
Date 2010:10:17
Time 11:01:10
Quality Best
Flash Mode Off, Did not fire; Internal
Focus Mode AF-S
AFPoint Selected Fixed Center
Exposure Time 1/20
FNumber 8.0
ISO 6400
Exposure Compensation 0
Metering Mode Spot
Auto Bracketing 0 EV, No Extended Bracket
White Balance Auto
Saturation Normal
Contrast Normal
Sharpness Med Soft
DSPFirmware Version 1.00.00.06
CPUFirmware Version 1.00.00.06
Effective LV 4.4
Image Processing Unprocessed
Picture Mode Aperture Priority; 1/3 EV steps
Drive Mode Single-frame; No Timer; Remote Control; Single Exposure
Color Space sRGB
Preview Image Borders 28 28 0 0
Lens Type smc PENTAX-FA 31mm F1.8AL Limited
Sensitivity Adjust 0
Image Processing Count 0
Camera Temperature 30 C
AELock Off
Noise Reduction Off
Flash Exposure Comp 0
Image Tone Natural
SRResult Not ready
Shake Reduction On (5)
SRHalf Press Time 0.00 s
SRFocal Length 32 mm
Shutter Count 3280
Dynamic Range Expansion Off
High ISONoise Reduction Unknown (4 1 56)
AFAdjustment 0
Black Point 27 2 1 26
White Point 14464 8448 8448 16768
Picture Mode2 Aperture Priority
Program Line Normal
EVSteps 1/3 EV steps
E- Dial In Program P Shift
Aperture Ring Use Prohibited
Flash Options Normal
Metering Mode2 Spot
AFPoint Mode Fixed Center
Focus Mode2 AF-S
AFPoint Selected2 Center
ISOFloor 6400
Drive Mode2 Remote Control
Exposure Bracket Step Size 0.5
Bracket Shot Number n/a
White Balance Set Auto
Multiple Exposure Set Off
AEExposure Time 1/20
AEAperture 8.0
AE_ ISO 6400
AEXv 0
AEBXv 0
AEMin Exposure Time 1/5461
AEProgram Mode Av, B or X
AEMax Aperture 0.2
AEMax Aperture2 1.8
AEMin Aperture 2
AEMetering Mode [2], [3], [7]
Flash Exposure Comp Set +8.0
Auto Aperture On
Min Aperture 22
Lens FStops 7.5
Nominal Max Aperture 1.7
Nominal Min Aperture 23
Max Aperture 1.8
Flash Status Off
Internal Flash Mode Off, Normal
External Flash Mode Off
Internal Flash Strength 60
TTL_ DA_ AUp 150
TTL_ DA_ ADown 44
TTL_ DA_ BUp 172
TTL_ DA_ BDown 0
AEMetering Segments 3.4 4.0 5.5 3.8 4.9 4.8 5.0 4.2 4.0 5.1 4.6 4.1 4.2 4.8 4.4 4.1
Flash Metering Segments 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Slave Flash Metering Segments 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Manufacture Date 2009:12:24
Production Code 2.1
Internal Serial Number 8020156
Power Source Unknown (0x12)
Battery States 4 0
Battery ADBody No Load 3
Battery ADBody Load 0
Battery ADGrip No Load 2
Battery ADGrip Load 170
AFPredictor -1
AFDefocus 0
AFIntegration Time 30 ms
AFPoints In Focus Center (horizontal)
WBShift AB 0
WBShift MG 0
Compression JPEG (old-style)

 

[tsammyc]

I was on Apeture Priority. The room brightness did shift a little due to light coming in from the window changing.

 

[pinholecam]

Thanks for the effort digging up the info.

Do note the few points that can affect the comparisons.

1. 1stop exposure difference
2. High ISO NR seems to be different (but I don't know what the numbers mean)
3. Picture settings are also dissimilar :
Kx
---
Saturation Normal
Contrast Normal
Sharpness Med Soft

K5
---
Contrast High
Saturation Normal
Sharpness Hard

 

[maverickh]

Hi to all experts / experienced photographers,

Does it then mean that the K-X is a much better deal, given this comparison above ? :think:

Kindly comment

 

[pinholecam]

Hi to all experts / experienced photographers,

Does it then mean that the K-X is a much better deal, given this comparison above ? :think:

Kindly comment

I'm certainly no expert as you well know, but here are the obvious discrepancies. (I mentioned this just 1 post above).


1. 1stop exposure difference
2. High ISO NR seems to be different (but I don't know what the numbers mean)
3. Picture settings are also dissimilar :

Kx
---
Saturation Normal
Contrast Normal
Sharpness Med Soft

K5
---
Contrast High
Saturation Normal
Sharpness Hard

My few cents.
The 1 stop difference in exposure easily means that K5 was shooting 1 stop ISO higher (ie. 6400 would be more like ISO12400)
Contrast on K5 is set to High, which means its pushing the original file again.
Add to that sharpness on K5 set to HARD (boy! it sure sounds bad), which can easily brings up more noise and artifacts.


The AF, dynamic range, interface, ISO80, auto align HDR, NR tweaks, is already well worth the money for the K5. Not to mention the previous interface and weather sealing advantages that were already on the K7.

 

[tsammyc]

First of all im no expert, but here are my thoughts. The K5 came set like that from the factory as did the KX so Pentax preset those settings. Changing them may not exactly equate things either. Different firmware. Hard contrast on a K5 may not mean the same thing as hard contrast on a KX. Although there was a difference in exposure, it was calculated by the camera based on changing light situation. So its quite likely that the total amount of light coming through the sensor was the similar, unless of course, the exposure systems are very different on the two cameras. Hence, the K5 was not disadvantaged by 1 stop worth of light if you know what I mean. There was a window and Passing clouds, different angle of the sun.

In any case, as a KX user, I do find the high ISO of the K5 similar, just slightly better. If one buys the K5 over the KX, it's not for greater high ISO capabilities, but for other things. I for one really like the fast focussing. I'm keeping my KX with the DA40 for a compact street camera until the EVIL arrives.

I know my test is not perfect, but I think it's a reasonable. No doubt, there will be many, many high ISO tests over the coming weeks from professional reviewers and I'm sure there will be comparisons with KX, K7, Nikon, Canon etc. Let's see how they turn out. Frankly, I would be highly surprised if the conclusions are any different.

 

[night86mare]

something you might want to take note about - noise usually occurs in shadow areas of photos.

with differences in exposure, you should keep in mind that this could result in an increased amount of darker areas in the picture with less exposure, i.e. the k5 image here.

to do a proper test, you need to ensure that camera is set to manual, and dial in the same settings.

it is after all, an image quality test you are running here, not comparison of metering.

 

[fengwei]

something you might want to take note about - noise usually occurs in shadow areas of photos.

with differences in exposure, you should keep in mind that this could result in an increased amount of darker areas in the picture with less exposure, i.e. the k5 image here.

to do a proper test, you need to ensure that camera is set to manual, and dial in the same settings.

it is after all, an image quality test you are running here, not comparison of metering.

Totally agreed

It's like when you compare optical quality of two lenses, you'd better use MF or whatever method to make the focusing right first. You can't simply rely on camera's AF to do the job for you

 

[tsammyc]

What am I, but a newbie, not agreeing with the gurus, but here is my point. The light in my room was changing, so if I use the same F stop and shutter speed, different amounts of light hit the sensor, so you have the same problem. What I really need to do is to redo it at night where the only source of light is the florescent light. Perhaps then, both K5 and KX will also calculate the same shutter speed.

 

[tsammyc]

Totally agreed

It's like when you compare optical quality of two lenses, you'd better use MF or whatever method to make the focusing right first. You can't simply rely on camera's AF to do the job for you

But what if on the KX you have no manual focussing aids and are dependent on your judgement of sharpness and quality of your eyesight. Pehaps it might be better to pick spot AF on a high contrast area of the subject and do contrast detect AF. That seems to work better for me in doing macro with the KX

 

[fengwei]

If no other aid available, LiveView is always there to guide you

 

[wksoh]

First of all im no expert, but here are my thoughts. The K5 came set like that from the factory as did the KX so Pentax preset those settings. Changing them may not exactly equate things either. Different firmware. Hard contrast on a K5 may not mean the same thing as hard contrast on a KX. Although there was a difference in exposure, it was calculated by the camera based on changing light situation. So its quite likely that the total amount of light coming through the sensor was the similar, unless of course, the exposure systems are very different on the two cameras. Hence, the K5 was not disadvantaged by 1 stop worth of light if you know what I mean. There was a window and Passing clouds, different angle of the sun.

In any case, as a KX user, I do find the high ISO of the K5 similar, just slightly better. If one buys the K5 over the KX, it's not for greater high ISO capabilities, but for other things. I for one really like the fast focussing. I'm keeping my KX with the DA40 for a compact street camera until the EVIL arrives.

I know my test is not perfect, but I think it's a reasonable. No doubt, there will be many, many high ISO tests over the coming weeks from professional reviewers and I'm sure there will be comparisons with KX, K7, Nikon, Canon etc. Let's see how they turn out. Frankly, I would be highly surprised if the conclusions are any different.

Thank you for the default testing. It still has great value for me.
I got something out of your test as I'm interested in default metering of a system (since I'm already impressed with K-5 K-x ISO). The K-5 metering makes the colors look very nice and natural too. At least don't have to keep adjusting the compensation dial.

 

[pinholecam]

First of all im no expert, but here are my thoughts. The K5 came set like that from the factory as did the KX so Pentax preset those settings. Changing them may not exactly equate things either. Different firmware. Hard contrast on a K5 may not mean the same thing as hard contrast on a KX. Although there was a difference in exposure, it was calculated by the camera based on changing light situation. So its quite likely that the total amount of light coming through the sensor was the similar, unless of course, the exposure systems are very different on the two cameras. Hence, the K5 was not disadvantaged by 1 stop worth of light if you know what I mean. There was a window and Passing clouds, different angle of the sun.

In any case, as a KX user, I do find the high ISO of the K5 similar, just slightly better. If one buys the K5 over the KX, it's not for greater high ISO capabilities, but for other things. I for one really like the fast focussing. I'm keeping my KX with the DA40 for a compact street camera until the EVIL arrives.

I know my test is not perfect, but I think it's a reasonable. No doubt, there will be many, many high ISO tests over the coming weeks from professional reviewers and I'm sure there will be comparisons with KX, K7, Nikon, Canon etc. Let's see how they turn out. Frankly, I would be highly surprised if the conclusions are any different.

Thank you for the default testing. It still has great value for me.
I got something out of your test as I'm interested in default metering of a system (since I'm already impressed with K-5 K-x ISO). The K-5 metering makes the colors look very nice and natural too. At least don't have to keep adjusting the compensation dial.

Apologies in advance, but this is exactly the thing I was worried about. Ppl drawing conclusions ahead of more controlled tests and/or taking the results at face value.

The settings may or may not be Pentax default. When I picked up my camera on Friday, ISO was at 800 when I turned it on. Default? I don't think so. There was another item that was not set to a logical value, but I can't remember what it was already. The values on the camera out of box can be anything. If the operator or QC checker picked up the unit for tests/inspection and did not set it back, thats what we get out of box. Remember sometime back on the Iphone, an operator from China had accidentally taken her photo on the iphone she was assembling. It went out, and she became and instant 'celebrity' (default setting picture in the iphone of a Chinese lady :bsmilie: ; Not..... )

I'm not saying Kx cannot be better than Kr or K5, but we need to shift through this carefully to avoid misunderstanding and worse misuse of the information provided.

tsammyc, if you are willing. You are one of the few ppl with both a Kx and K5. Appreciate it if you did more controlled tests with the settings fixed to be similar and do the shots again. At least we will then have a better idea. Thanks

 

[tsammyc]

Unfortunately busy next week or so. In fact, doing office work now on a Sunday afternoon. However, if you want to borrow the KX for tests, happy to lend the KX to you. Contact me via PM.

 

[night86mare]

What am I, but a newbie, not agreeing with the gurus, but here is my point. The light in my room was changing, so if I use the same F stop and shutter speed, different amounts of light hit the sensor, so you have the same problem. What I really need to do is to redo it at night where the only source of light is the florescent light. Perhaps then, both K5 and KX will also calculate the same shutter speed.

not necessarily.

btw, for fluorescent lighting, make sure you have a long enough exposure, else there will be exposure difference as well.

 

[wksoh]

Apologies in advance, but this is exactly the thing I was worried about. Ppl drawing conclusions ahead of more controlled tests and/or taking the results at face value.

The settings may or may not be Pentax default. When I picked up my camera on Friday, ISO was at 800 when I turned it on. Default? I don't think so. There was another item that was not set to a logical value, but I can't remember what it was already. The values on the camera out of box can be anything. If the operator or QC checker picked up the unit for tests/inspection and did not set it back, thats what we get out of box. Remember sometime back on the Iphone, an operator from China had accidentally taken her photo on the iphone she was assembling. It went out, and she became and instant 'celebrity' (default setting picture in the iphone of a Chinese lady :bsmilie: ; Not..... )

I'm not saying Kx cannot be better than Kr or K5, but we need to shift through this carefully to avoid misunderstanding and worse misuse of the information provided.

tsammyc, if you are willing. You are one of the few ppl with both a Kx and K5. Appreciate it if you did more controlled tests with the settings fixed to be similar and do the shots again. At least we will then have a better idea. Thanks

Wow.. Pinhole, thanks for the headsup. I had jumped to the conclusion and in my head had written the K-X off. I has assumed camera to be default out of the box. Thank you....

 

[wksoh]

BTW I managed to get the opportunity to handle a white Pentax K-x at Alan photo funan last friday. I'm amazed by it's speed and simplicity.
The shutter is not as loud as it was made out to be in many forums - in fact I find it very smooth. Also the FPS is very fast.