Is there a big diff compare being a singaporean, a pr, or a foreigner

[reachme2003]

see, i was not wrong. as much i had guessed you came because of economic reasons.

Hmm....actually you are wrong. I came here because it was convienient. I was staying just across the causeway. I had friends in Singapore long ago. Did not came here purposely because of them. What mentioned was the new friends I made when I came back from Melbourne.

Came here because as exchange rate was good. Plus there are more job opportunity in Singapore during 1998 period.

 

[reachme2003]

your first para refers. it illustrated amply that our govt are not suckers. who wants to pump $ here and required to serve national service too?

as a general rule, 1st gen pr are not required to do ns. however, there are exceptions. i think we, singaporeans citizens, are not too concerned with the exceptions as their numbers are not big.

double taxation agreements betw countries took care of 'taxed twice for their income'.

No, only PRs under the PTS or investor's scheme are exempt. Under other schemes, even first generation PRs are subject to NS.

Keep in mind that PRs may end up doing NS both in Singapore and in their native countries. Some may also be taxed twice for their income - in Singapore and their home countries. I don't think there's a reason why Singaporeans need to feel short-changed.

 

[deslim27]

Did you know that male PRs under the age of 40, unless special circumstances apply, are subject to national service as well, without being granted citizenship for it? So much for "earning" ...

Haven't seem a single PR doing NS, can you quote any example that you might know?

===

Some may think that 2 1/2 yrs wasted is nothing.. but it is important in early years. If you're employer interviewing for new staff.. what is the different between 0 yr and 2 1/2 yrs working experience compare to 15 yrs and 17 1/2 yrs experience? How about those who have to go in-camp every year? They are disrupted from work 2-3 weeks (some might have even more) more than others although they may only enjoy same days of 'real vacation'. How about IPPT, Standby/Mobilization? Keeping fit for others are optional, at ones own choice, but it is a mandate for NSmen, else will be subject up to 2 months of RT up to 3 times a week, which also cause disruption from work.

With all the hassles.. we are well appreciated to have total of $2000 tax relief (not rebate) every year from govt. :bsmilie:

No.. I'm not complaining, just like to share the extra burden that NSmen 'enjoyed'.. In fact, its a great honour to serve shoulder to shoulder with my fellow comrades.

p.s. Perhaps one can work as volunteer for charity org equal amount of time to get a feel of it.. I will send your schedule to you like SAF100. :bsmilie:

 

[wiki]

Reasons for working in Singapore: safe, clean, low corruption, low tax, low GST, central for travelling in the region and beyond, good salaries, good climate (if you like the warm!) to name a few.

Guess I am speaking on behalf of all the Causcasians who are on CS - if they are anything like me they brush off the 'Ang Mo' comment but if you think about it, we are really quite tolerant of this. I don't think I have ever seen in this forum or any other photography forum a case where a particular race of people are given a nickname. In the West we would be harshly criticised for doing such a thing. Therefore I am suggesting we are quite tolerant whereas the poster of the quote seems to be very intolerant of foreigners in Singapore.

Please do not misunderstand by post as been intolerant of foreigners. Just that recently i been trying to get a flat and realise that even for new flat it is still very expensive. Although resale flat is expensive as well, it comes with renovation, etc, so the diff to an extent is not significant. Been a singaporean ,I was expecting more subsidy on new flats. It is amazing how the price keeps going up and the area keeps getting smaller.

So i just ask this questions, and most pple replied that singaporeans have the right to vote. I am not sure where the rest is staying, but for myside, there is no voting basically. Furthermore as far as voting is concern, most pple know the situation over here.

next i also recieve my ict. This i find it very disruptive to my work, esp for someone who is fresh to the workforce. Imagine all the work pile up while you are away or someone have to cover you just because you are not around. Someone once mention, that without the country, there is no ecomony. I agree with that and i agree that we need a defence force. So as far as this is concern, i guess there is no way around it.

another issue is education. although singaporean are subsidy, this is also comon among other countries, though some maybe worse, etc.

In general, what i pointing out is that looking at how things are going, we can't really expect the gov to take care of us or lead us to a good life, so at least what we can do is to know your own rights and see how u can improve your current situation. Hope this clear things up

 

[reachme2003]

welcome to the real world. no free meal. look at the wong's of hougang in today's ST.

Please do not misunderstand by post as been intolerant of foreigners. Just that recently i been trying to get a flat and realise that even for new flat it is still very expensive. Although resale flat is expensive as well, it comes with renovation, etc, so the diff to an extent is not significant. Been a singaporean ,I was expecting more subsidy on new flats. It is amazing how the price keeps going up and the area keeps getting smaller.

So i just ask this questions, and most pple replied that singaporeans have the right to vote. I am not sure where the rest is staying, but for myside, there is no voting basically. Furthermore as far as voting is concern, most pple know the situation over here.

next i also recieve my ict. This i find it very disruptive to my work, esp for someone who is fresh to the workforce. Imagine all the work pile up while you are away or someone have to cover you just because you are not around. Someone once mention, that without the country, there is no ecomony. I agree with that and i agree that we need a defence force. So as far as this is concern, i guess there is no way around it.

another issue is education. although singaporean are subsidy, this is also comon among other countries, though some maybe worse, etc.

In general, what i pointing out is that looking at how things are going, we can't really expect the gov to take care of us or lead us to a good life, so at least what we can do is to know your own rights and see how u can improve your current situation. Hope this clear things up

 

[Emkay]

One of the things Singaporean can do (but not PR) is that you can form/join a party, get elected and make the decisions for this great country.

If Singaporeans think that foreigners are not welcomed here to work (for economy or whatever reasons), they should get their views expressed, suggestions debated and decisions executed. It's their country after all.

Being a PR will not have such privileges, they can only whine on forums like clubsnap :cry:

I am a foreigner and I like to work in Singapore. But if it is the decision of majority of Singaporeans that foreigners should not come to Singapore to work for economy or other reasons, I'll respect that choice and leave this great country.

On some of the posts I've seen here, some are not exercising their right as a citizen (i.e. exercise their political rights) even for those who have 'invested' 2.5 years of their time to serve this country, but choose to whine irresponsibly.

That shows how shallow peoples can get. And that explain why sometime their Government choose to ignore them. :think:

ps:- I am not saying foreigners should or should not work in Singapore for economy reasons, but any Singaporean who think their opinions on this matters are right and there should be a change in policy for this country, they have every rights to fight for it. A P.R. can't do that, they can only leave.
This is the biggest different between a P.R. and a Citizen (in any democratic country)

 

[therat]

Singaporean male: must serve NS 2 to 2.5 years and another 13 year cycle, some even continued to serve in civil defence
2nd Gen PR: must serve NS. (provided they stay that long, if they do I believe they will rather be the above)

Singaporean: get to vote (provided its not walkover), if you don't vote you have lots of explanation to do
PR and foreigner: get free holiday during voting day

Singaporean: get to buy new heavily subsidised HDB (provided combined salary is below $8K, married of course) otherwise can only buy resale HDB
35 and above Single Singaporean: get to buy resale HDB
PR: can only buy resale HDB
recently, new unsold HDB (more than 5years) was sold as resale flat though at resale prices
Foreigners: get to rent HDB

Singaporean: although Singapore wants to be an education HUB, but students here have to study very hard to enter into 1 of 3 (4) universities, but at subsidised fee. Therefore many go oversea to study, more expensive but usually easier (because most come back with First Class Honours from good U as well- so better job prospect)
PR & foreigners: some have more choices because their own countries have lots of Universities, probably free or again subsidised fee. note some students in other nearby countries may be in worse situation than Singaporean students - with discrimination and all.

Singaporean: Depend on CPF for old age (however, medishield only cover up to a certain age)
PR & Foreigner: Some may still enjoy pension in their country, anyway, if they contribute to CPF they can withdraw everything if they decide not to work in Singapore

Although the above don't sound too good, but hey, too bad you are born here, so get over it, and be positive, if you are negative, anywhere is also bad.

Singaporean: no matter what, this is still the country you are born in, no one can chase you out (at most ISA only lah if you are naughty-all countries have some forms of it anyway)
PR & Foreigners: Status can be revoked anytime (remember the SIA pilot)

Singapore Court: Ruling made by 3 Judges
Other countries: Some made by Jury or gun (freedom to own 1)

Singapore: Racial Harmony and little or no discrimination (provided you don't fly SIA according to some people. Come on, older generation singaporean are so shy, reserved and undemanding, how could the stewardess strike up a conversation, anyway the Foreigners are usually more demanding and vocal, so need to spend more effort to please them and get good ratings, afterall they will participate in Survey and let people know their feelings)

Anyway to answer your question, I believe the government recently commented that they need to have a greater differentiation for being a Singaporean (thanks to the SIA pilot). So you should know the answer, otherwise why is there such a comment.

I hope I did not offend anyone by saying all the above, if I do then I apologise and will take back any of the statement, anyway all the above are based on my understanding and may be wrong, so please do your own research.

:thumbsup:

 

[pcwe68]

Wah long story bro but super clear cut. Still have time type huh........? Not busy with work issit? :bsmilie:

a bit more free lah. :sweat:

 

[LittleWolf]

Haven't seem a single PR doing NS, can you quote any example that you might know?

No - I usually don't walk around and ask people "are you a PR and have you done NS?".

No.. I'm not complaining, just like to share the extra burden that NSmen 'enjoyed'..

You're also not complaining about all the extra benefits NSmen enjoy - like e.g. significantly higher salaries in the civil service . In my native country, which has compulsory national service as well, we could only dream of such perks.

Back on topic - I was never claiming that NS is not a burden to the individual. But if Singaporeans say they'd rather be PRs because it's better than being a citizen, there's nothing in their way to do so. If they'd rather keep their citizenship, this merely exposes their dishonesty.

Cheap shots at minorities like foreigners are a convenient way of diverting blame or avoiding critical self-assessment, and xenophobia is not an exclusively Singaporean phenomenon. Frome some not too distant events, it is also obvious that some Singaporeans even think they're above their fellow citizens because they attended a different high school or JC. This kind of I'm-a-better-human-being-than-you attitude is just ironic in a multi-ethnic nation that didn't exist just a few decades ago where basically everyone is an immigrant or descends from immigrants.

Don't forget, the "govt are not suckers", and I'm sure they wouldn't grant PR status to foreigners if Singapore didn't gain from them.

 

[pcwe68]

I tot singapore has ruling based on 1 judge and only in special hearings will you have an odd number of judges?

I feel the jury system makes more sense sometimes than the sg system that looks at precedence cases where the judge just have to match the current case with another previous case and give his ruling. A bit of 'no brainer' to me..

yep, but usually rulings by judge/s would be seen as being fair (be it decided by 1 or 3), so far i believe there is no corrupt judge in Singapore, every rulings have been based on evidents and law. Though some decisions can be rather hash or lenient.

anyway, regarding jury, depending on which side you are on, if you lose you will surely curse and find fault with it and says that the jury is made up of discriminating members. Jury may not be trained or know the law very well. Jury members are like consumer being convinced by the saleman lawyers with flowery language.

Well, in both cases there are the appeal courts, so I guess it balances.

Well nothing is perfect I guess, just live with and abide with whatever system there is (provided it is within your acceptable level of tolerance) otheriwse leave that place and go find your dream place to live in.

 

[Ah Pao]

Singapore is built on immigrants, then and now. There's no difference then and now that Singapore needs foreigners to survive, be in expats or PRs.

A lot of discussion seems to be hinged on the issue of NS. Being a citizen means the extra responsibility to protect your home, like it or not. Practically this translate having to serve in NS. If a citizen doesn't do it, who will? If you don't feel compelled to protect your homeland, then I'm sorry, no one can make you feel compelled, since it's "someone else's business". Singapore would then be just a place to earn your retirement funds and migrate somewhere.

Singapore has to work within the limitations of being a small country with no natural resources and a small population. Being prudent and shrewd is the key to survival. We need foreigners to run the economy engine. If there is no incentive to attract them, then who will come? If every married couple gives birth to 4 children or more (hypothetical figure), then maybe we don't need to attract foreigners. If every Singaporean is a multi-talented sportsman cum businessman cum artist cum everything else, maybe we don't need foreigners. Singapore is a meritocratic country; if you are good and can contribute to the country, then you are welcome.

Let's face it, foreigners is and will always be a part of Singapore, like it or not. In fact, I have many M'sian, Indo, PRC and Mauritius friends and although I won't say I like them all, many of them are my good friends.

 

[deslim27]

You're also not complaining about all the extra benefits NSmen enjoy - like e.g. significantly higher salaries in the civil service . In my native country, which has compulsory national service as well, we could only dream of such perks.

Hi LittleWolf,

First of all, You may have got the wrong message.. I only ask if you've seen any PR doing NS. The rest are just general comments to the forum (notice the dash-dash) :bsmilie:.

Secondly, notice that I addressed Others vs NSmen, and not Foreigners vs NSmen. I've nothing against foreigners, 1/2 of my friends and colleagues are foreigners. I'm just sharing the responsibility of NSmen with the rest. May be I picked the wrong thread to type. :think:

As for the 'extra benefits' you've mentioned, perhaps a tax rebate or similar rebates are more practical else all who serve NS have to queue up for civil service jobs to enjoy benefits.

No - I usually don't walk around and ask people "are you a PR and have you done NS?".

I know a good number of PRs friends and colleagues.. it will be really a "News" if any of them have to serve NS, even for those who has already converted to citizen.

Don't forget, the "govt are not suckers", and I'm sure they wouldn't grant PR status to foreigners if Singapore didn't gain from them.

Singapore may be, but not necessary for individual.

 

[pcwe68]

Regarding the NS thingy, I have served 2.5 years and about to finished the 13 years cycle (2 left).

It is obvious that it is an inconvenient to us. That's why some compnay will treat the 2.5 years as working experience and pay you more (especially the government related company). Probably many will still see that it is not enough to compensate even with all the tax incentive etc.

What I am disturbed greatly was when someone told me about what a female SINGAPOREAN HR Manager commented to him about the extra $60 because of his NS. She said that she do not see the need to give that $60.

Come on, what is $60 per month more. As the saying goes, why don't I pay her $60 from my own pay and she serves NS for 2.5 years and goes on the 13 year cycle and with luck even continue with civil defence. Its the views and thinking of these type of SINGAPOREAN that makes me feel sick, not the foreigners and PR. I wonder how many more (Singaporean) are there out there that thinks the same.

I personally had missed training opportunities at work because of ICT and in the end did not get to work on a project. But at the end, it will not affect if you are positive about it. Till today I still did not have that skill set, anyway being in the IT, that skill is rather obsolete now anyway. of course if I want to be negative, I can whine away about not being able to get certain job...but what good is it anyway.

Someone needs to defend the country (or rather a country must have the capability to defend itself). Its between a regular army vs something like ours. But for the former, it means higher taxes for everyone. Yo have to pay the soldiers.

Come on, some lucky ones, enjoys it as a "holiday" or break from the stressful job. Not everyone is lucky.

Like some of my reservist friends put it on the first day of ICT........
"Welcome to the adventure tour package, thank you for signing up. Please put your luggages in the designated rooms, and report at the frontdesk counter with the free camouflage cargo pants and shirt. Lunch (in fact all meals) will be provided. Have a nice day"

 

[pcwe68]

Actually, all PR are required to serve NS or can be called up for it, just that most if not all 1st generation are given the exemption.

Anyway, I would not like to trust a foreigner to defend the place I am living in.

Singapore learns from its experience with the British during her colonial ruling days and world war 2 etc.

 

[afbug]

Actually, all PR are required to serve NS or can be called up for it, just that most if not all 1st generation are given the exemption.

Anyway, I would not like to trust a foreigner to defend the place I am living in.

Singapore learns from its experience with the British during her colonial ruling days and world war 2 etc.

My bro has a friend who is a PR. He is from ROC and both are serving NS now.......commandos! :bigeyes: He said that his friend likes it here.

I pretty much enjoyed my last ICT. Really went on an adventure holiday at ROC. :sweatsm:

 

[deslim27]

Regarding the NS thingy, I have served 2.5 years and about to finished the 13 years cycle (2 left).

It is obvious that it is an inconvenient to us. That's why some compnay will treat the 2.5 years as working experience and pay you more (especially the government related company). Probably many will still see that it is not enough to compensate even with all the tax incentive etc.

What I am disturbed greatly was when someone told me about what a female SINGAPOREAN HR Manager commented to him about the extra $60 because of his NS. She said that she do not see the need to give that $60.

Come on, what is $60 per month more. As the saying goes, why don't I pay her $60 from my own pay and she serves NS for 2.5 years and goes on the 13 year cycle and with luck even continue with civil defence. Its the views and thinking of these type of SINGAPOREAN that makes me feel sick, not the foreigners and PR. I wonder how many more (Singaporean) are there out there that thinks the same.

I personally had missed training opportunities at work because of ICT and in the end did not get to work on a project. But at the end, it will not affect if you are positive about it. Till today I still did not have that skill set, anyway being in the IT, that skill is rather obsolete now anyway. of course if I want to be negative, I can whine away about not being able to get certain job...but what good is it anyway.

Someone needs to defend the country (or rather a country must have the capability to defend itself). Its between a regular army vs something like ours. But for the former, it means higher taxes for everyone. Yo have to pay the soldiers.

Come on, some lucky ones, enjoys it as a "holiday" or break from the stressful job. Not everyone is lucky.

Like some of my reservist friends put it on the first day of ICT........
"Welcome to the adventure tour package, thank you for signing up. Please put your luggages in the designated rooms, and report at the frontdesk counter with the free camouflage cargo pants and shirt. Lunch (in fact all meals) will be provided. Have a nice day"

Totally agree! :thumbsup:

Regarding the female manager, I've my story to share too (not to mention name.. kekeke).. I was told that what's the point for all these NS thing.. it takes just a bomb from aeroplance to conquer Singapore. Seeing the needs to justify the purpose of NS, I explained to her the details.. at the end, I realised she know nutz about our defence.. Her impression of our arm force is still in the 60s-70s when we have to 'buy bullets' from other courtries. :bsmilie:

All my NS time goes into long-kang..

 

[afbug]

Totally agree! :thumbsup:

Regarding the female manager, I've my story to share too (not to mention name.. kekeke).. I was told that what's the point for all these NS thing.. it takes just a bomb from aeroplance to conquer Singapore. Seeing the needs to justify the purpose of NS, I explained to her the details.. at the end, I realised she know nutz about our defence.. Her impression of our arm force is still in the 60s-70s when we have to 'buy bullets' from other courtries. :bsmilie:

All my NS time goes into long-kang..

Aiya! Females are more docile, so naturally, they're not into these military stuffs. But it saddens me to see that some people take Singapore's safety and security for granted. Ask them to open their eyes and see this years' NDP. We are showing off our military might. :bsmilie:

 

[deslim27]

Aiya! Females are more docile, so naturally, they're not into these military stuffs. But it saddens me to see that some people take Singapore's safety and security for granted. Ask them to open their eyes and see this years' NDP. We are showing off our military might. :bsmilie:

Yeah.. I'm surprised that with all the publicity in the TV by arm force.. she has that kind of impression. Actually, I asked her to Army Open House to see for herself.

What's special this NDP? This year in Padang?

 

[reachme2003]

Yeah.. I'm surprised that with all the publicity in the TV by arm force.. she has that kind of impression. Actually, I asked her to Army Open House to see for herself.

What's special this NDP? This year in Padang?

accompany her to police week this weekend. this will be last time at thomson rd police academy.

 

[LittleWolf]

Anyway, I would not like to trust a foreigner to defend the place I am living in.

Is someone who lives, works, and wants to retire in Singapore, maybe raises a family here, and loves Singapore a foreigner, just because the IC isn't pink? Isn't Singapore more of a home to him/her than to a Singapore citizen living as a PR in Australia or the US?