Is E300 Worth To buy in IT Show?

[goering]

IMO the initial savings of a few hundred for the E300 isn't as attractive as it may seem

a) It's hard to get accessories and lenses 2nd hand and u practically need to buy everything new - which may therefore wipe out the initial savings. The savings by getting second hand can amount to $500 or more esp for expensive lenses. Here in B&S, you can get great deals on lenses from Canon/Nikon second hand and many in mint condition

b) While Olympus already has plans to release a whole range of lenses, as of now, the current range is still rather limited and by the time Oly releases the whole range and you build up your collection, you'll probably have grown out of this camera. Why buy now when the range is still limited, and the alternatives have a very comprehensive range NOW

Moreover, this camera is not exactly one that outshines the competition so much so that you can overlook a) and b) above. In fact, compared to the competition, this camera loses out in some major areas

c) It is relatively noisy from ISO 800 and up. ISO 800 is usable - but the competition performs somewhat better. ISO 1600 is way too noisy while the competition is still fairly usable

d) dpreview's conclusion http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse300/page29.asp says the camera has poor continuous shooting capability - again losing out to the competition by a good margin

e) I also note dpreview's conclusion which states "Images not per-pixel as 'crisp' as from other D-SLR's". There are other negatives mentioned in dpreview's review - metering bugs, demosaic and moire artifacts. While this may be a little subjective, this still figures for me in the overall impression of the e300.

f) i also noted a CS user who bought an E300 http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=106845 and commented negatively about the e300. the pics posted 9some links are now broken) also seemed noisy and lacking resolution

While one or two issues I raised above may not be entirely true -if taken as a whole, I still find it hard to recommend the e300 over the competition - the main attrraction seems to be it's $200-$300 price advantage

 

[Johnny]

How much did you buy your 40-150? They have an offer of this lens at $399 if buy with the body.

To compare:

E-300 14-45 + 40-150 ($2098)
D70 18-70 + 70-300 ($2076)

 

[globalshooter]

juz my 2 cents worth.
like u, i contemplated on switching to E300 too when it was first launch.
at the end , still go for d70.

3 main reasons
1) I'm a nikon user and have the confident with the brand.
2) the possibilities of getting 2nd hand & 3rd party stuff seems somehow lower.
3) resale value might not be as strong

hence, with some thought & advise for a dealer, decided to stick to Nikon.

intitial set up cost is low since I alreadi own some lenses. however, in the long run will
still need to invest in DX lenses to max. the sensor capabilities.
hence i think it is important to find a system that u are comfortable and build a system from there.

cheers,

 

[tomcat]

That's slightly cheaper than what I paid for mine at $420. Maybe you can bargain for a bit lower price if you are serious about getting the body.

From my experience with Oly's consumer zoom lenses ie the 14-45mm kit lens and the 40-150mm lens, and Canon's consumer zoom lenses, I tend to agree with Evilmerlin's comment that the Oly consumer zoom lenses are quite close to Canon's L lens in optical quality.

I have been using Canon DSLRs all along from D60 to 10D to 20D before getting the E-300 quite for the experience of using the 4/3 system. Nowadays, however I find that whenever I want to shoot something, I always seem to be picking up the E-300 instead of the 20D. This could be because unless I am using a prime or macro lens on the 20D, the 2 Oly lenses easily beat the pants off my EF 28-135 IS and 75-300 IS lenses in sharpness, colour, contrast, etc despite the fact that they cost (and weigh) less than half as much as these Canon lenses. And if I am shooting macros, the Oly 50mm f/2 macro is much lighter and faster than my Sigma 105mm Macro.

Also, they are so light that I could bring the whole system with me overseas nowadays to shoot with. I would never want to bring my Canon DSLR with the heavy lenses and flash with me on holiday trips overseas in the past for this reason.

 

[Evilmerlin]

a) It's hard to get accessories and lenses 2nd hand and u practically need to buy everything new - which may therefore wipe out the initial savings. The savings by getting second hand can amount to $500 or more esp for expensive lenses. Here in B&S, you can get great deals on lenses from Canon/Nikon second hand and many in mint condition

True and I agree with that but do consider the fact that Olympus's "budget" lens are most of the time equivalent in quality to many of Canon's and Nikon's "pro" lens.

b) While Olympus already has plans to release a whole range of lenses, as of now, the current range is still rather limited and by the time Oly releases the whole range and you build up your collection, you'll probably have grown out of this camera. Why buy now when the range is still limited, and the alternatives have a very comprehensive range NOW

I find the argument that the range of lens being limited to be rather weak. Why? Because the current range of lens cover alot of the focal lengths that you will be using! Why have a thousand and one different lens when 2 or 3 will cover the entire range?

It is relatively noisy from ISO 800 and up. ISO 800 is usable - but the competition performs somewhat better. ISO 1600 is way too noisy while the competition is still fairly usable

Personal opinion here but I hardly ever had the reason to go all the way up to ISO800 or 1600 for that matter. But I do agree that Canon has got superb high ISO capabilities. Just curious, why is the whole damn photographic community so damn concerned about high iso performance? Its not like ISO1600 is your standard shooting ISO. If you are telling me that ISO 100-200 is noisy then sure, something to be concerned about.

dpreview's conclusion http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse300/page29.asp says the camera has poor continuous shooting capability - again losing out to the competition by a good margin

Can't comment here as I hardly ever used the continuous focus function might be true, might not be true.

I also note dpreview's conclusion which states "Images not per-pixel as 'crisp' as from other D-SLR's". There are other negatives mentioned in dpreview's review - metering bugs, demosaic and moire artifacts. While this may be a little subjective, this still figures for me in the overall impression of the e300.

I personally have not experienced any of the above "bugs" so can't comment again.

i also noted a CS user who bought an E300 http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=106845 and commented negatively about the e300. the pics posted 9some links are now broken) also seemed noisy and lacking resolution

Well, I have seen plenty of craptacular pictures taken by D70 and 300D too, does that make them bad cameras? No. I bet that for every 1 bad photo, you probably get lots more that are absolutely fantastic.

The price is not the only thing going for the E-300.
1.) Dust Reduction System
2.) Solid construction
3.) Full Frame Transfer CCD
4.) Dedicated digital lens which although are classed as budget are equivalent in optical quality to the Canon and Nikon's pro lens
5.) Size and weight, subjective of course. I find that its light and small enough to feel substantial and not like a toy.
6.) Don't need a bazillion and one lens to get the focal lengths you need.

I'm sure others can add more.

Johnny, just go try out the 2 cameras lah. You listen to people like me or those from the canon and nikon camps sure got bias one. The most important thing is that how YOU like it. Go play with it, touch it, take photos with it. I'm pretty sure you got more than a day to make up your mind.

 

[mpenza]

From my experience with Oly's consumer zoom lenses ie the 14-45mm kit lens and the 40-150mm lens, and Canon's consumer zoom lenses, ..... EF 28-135 IS and 75-300 IS lenses in sharpness, colour, contrast, etc despite the fact that they cost (and weigh) less than half as much as these Canon lenses. And if I am shooting macros, the Oly 50mm f/2 macro is much lighter and faster than my Sigma 105mm Macro.

The 2 EF lenses are heavy and expensive mainly because of IS lah. Olympus doesn't have IS or equivalent technology in their arsenal yet (not really a problem I guess unless you need them for some specialised shooting).

believe the 50mm f/2 is also almost twice as expensive as the Sigma 105mm macro. It's still faster than Canon's 50mm f/2.5 macro though but more expensive.

Low noise high ISO for Canon/Nikon/Minolta meant that you do not need fast and heavy lenses to get handholdable shutter speeds, or fast enough shutter speeds to freeze subjects. Also, Olympus's sensor being smaller will result in deeper depth of field vs the other manufactuer's camera using lenses that gives the same 35mm equivalent field of view and aperture.

That said, Olympus 4/3 is a great alternative system to consider vs Nikon and Canon. Do go and try out the cameras and make the decision. Feel is important. I might have chosen Olympus too if they had released their budget DSLR earlier. (I got the first budget and lightweight DSLR that came into the market - 300D - till now I've kept my setup light. I don't have any lens that costs more than $1.2k or weigh more than 800g each but have lenses that stretch, in 35mm equivalent terms, from 16mm/3.5 to 320mm/2.8.)

Also, if you know what your shooting style is, make a list of equipment (flash, lenses, batteries, etc) that you intend to buy and compare prices (if finances are a constraint).

 

[megaweb]

What are your definition of Worth ?
1. Produce good quality ?
2. Good Resale Value ?
3. Fast AF in low lighting ?
4. More lens choice ?
5. Built like a tank and able to last long ?
6. Hassle free to clean sensor ?
7. Light Weight and Small Size ?

anyway all DSLRs are worth to buy ....

 

[awongkk]

Arrgh, me too. Contemplating between the two. Was there yesterday to try out the E-300 and D70, but E-300 not with the grip though. I'm currently do not hold any of the "N" or "L" lens , so it's a free to choose option.

But I find the 14-45 focusing a bit slow compare to the D70 Kit len, and the photo taken in the E-300 is a bit on the dark. :dunno: whether if I'm right ?

Any kind soul here have any idea of what's the price if not at IT show for the E-300 kit ?

 

[apex]

Arrgh, me too. Contemplating between the two. Was there yesterday to try out the E-300 and D70, but E-300 not with the grip though. I'm currently do not hold any of the "N" or "L" lens , so it's a free to choose option.

But I find the 14-45 focusing a bit slow compare to the D70 Kit len, and the photo taken in the E-300 is a bit on the dark. :dunno: whether if I'm right ?

Any kind soul here have any idea of what's the price if not at IT show for the E-300 kit ?

Last Quote from Alan Funan is 1430 with GST. No free gift. It seems like 1699 in show is worth buying with 2 1GB card, Battery and Tripod (i think that is the package).

 

[mpenza]

Arrgh, me too. Contemplating between the two. Was there yesterday to try out the E-300 and D70, but E-300 not with the grip though. I'm currently do not hold any of the "N" or "L" lens , so it's a free to choose option.

But I find the 14-45 focusing a bit slow compare to the D70 Kit len, and the photo taken in the E-300 is a bit on the dark. :dunno: whether if I'm right ?

Any kind soul here have any idea of what's the price if not at IT show for the E-300 kit ?

"dark" photo might be a setting problem. as for the focussing, I have not done a comparison for E300 but 300D's EF-S 18-55 focuses quite a bit faster than the D70's kit lens according to one review site.

 

[jpcc]

I think the build quality of E300 is better than 350D.
I don't really like the small buttons of E300 though.

I didn't manage to check out D70.
Do go down and touch/ feel/ hold the cameras.

It may change/ affect your decisions.

 

[nightpiper]

Why do I need to wait for full frame digi SLRs to be affordable when E300 is already an affordable digiSLR using full-frame transfer CCD?

dun get confuse by the term full frame & full frame transfer.

full frame: 35mm film counterpart dimension.
full frame transfer CCD: the method of transferring electrons from the CCD to circuit board.

so far, all other brands use the interline/interlace transfer method. this particular kodak CCD is the only unique one highly used by marine engineers/researchers for deep sea image acquisition. reason is simply becos its image quality is very good.

i really dun think high image noise is a gauge of camera performance. there's a compromise between noise & image detail. others may swear by their ultra low noise performance (very aggressive noise reduction) but dun know what they r lacking in details. contrary to popular believe, low CA was never used widely for image comparison. so it primarily voices down to what u want from your camera.

just point & shoot w/o adjusting images in computers?
low ISO 1600/3200 noise for low light shooting events?
more affordable?
little or no CA on images?
a whole lot of lens with 30years history & u probably won't be buying them all? & yet have to buy their newer lens for digitally optimised?

Oly has enuf lens to cover a wide range too.
7-14mm
11-22mm
14-45mm
14-54mm
50-200mm
45-150mm
150mm
300mm
50mm micro

more to come:
90-250mm & a few more i can't remember.

so what is it that u r looking for in your camera?

on top of it, the E sys has many 3rd party lens adaptors so u can mount lenses from Contax, Leica, Nikon, Oly, etc. (but no canon cos no aperture ring control) for some extra fun. which means 3rd party lens like sigma, tokina & tamron r feasibly useable. unlike nikon, the manual lenses have no metering on D70 & D100 making it not feasible to use but can only mount.

take your time to decide & play around with the options available. ultimately, it comes to your style & taste.

 

[ykkok]

It seems like for those (most) who 'dislike' the E-system have very little or never experience any of the system before.

For my case, I get to test and trial C and N almost everywhere, and finally landed my hand on an E-300.

With the E-system, I can get better quality lenses than any other brand with slightly less costs (at least to what I can afford). All lenses are built for digital.

Brand N will probably stick to APS-C size instead of full frame and they are going for more DX lenses (digital only).

Brand C's EFs can only work with APS-C sensor, not the full frame nor the 1.3x.

What lead me to E-system:
1. All digitally optimized lenses (no DX nor EFs complexity)
2. Dust reduction system (I swap lenses more than anyone of my friend does)
3. Punchy colours straight from the cam (less PP)
4. Sharp at almost all aperture/focal length (less worry on lens' sweet spots)

They are all good system. Just get the system that suits you.

 

[ykkok]

Full Frame Transfer (FFT) CCD has a bigger surface area to gather light (photon) per pixel than Interline Transfer (IT) CCD.

Full Frame CCD is a CCD with an equivalent size/aspect ration of 35mm film.

Yes, and we are looking towards to those lenses never seen before :

1. 14-35 (28-70) f2.0
2. 35-100 (70-200) f2.0

f2.0 is about 1stop faster than f2.8, so it's an answer to VR or IS.

 

[nightpiper]

eh... dun think its the surface area. think its the depth of the pixel well, cos got no transfer register at the back of the pixel, thus making it higher dynamic range which results in better overall image quality.

 

[serene]

For a lady user, the weight of the equipment is a primarly criteria for decision making. For a newbie, to minimise my start up cost, the price is the next impt factor. Currently, I use 50mm f2.0 and the kit lens 14-45mm (which is surprisngly good despite its inxpensive image). I hv tested a few brands before I came to my decision to purchase the e-300 - it was not an easy choice as there are so many good alternatives enticing me. After 2 months of researching, balancing my priorities and tradeoffs, I finally made my choice.(The e-300!!!) The only problem now is that my photographic skill lags behind my camera's capability.

 

[chancy]

Dear OlyFolks,

My opinions are of no real value in this post since so many valid points have been raised for Johnny to make decision. Just to express delight that even as I sweat to think of any good unmentioned points, I truly respect the ability of the Oly community to put across its points objectively. I'm actually sitting back enjoying your postings (aside from that Trolly one of course seeing that you could word your points way better. Proud to be associated with this community & hope to meet you all in person one day

I believe civil members here take pride & pain in establishing facts, whether your choice is Oly or otherwise thereafter, you have our blessings

Even as an Oly E1 user, I envy the compact yet durable form factor of the E300 for travel amongst so much that's said.

In Awe,

 

[Merciless_Knight]

3rd party or ORG battery?

Yes... Rp for that is 125sgd... :sticktong

 

[tOGGY]

Dear OlyFolks,

My opinions are of no real value in this post since so many valid points have been raised for Johnny to make decision. Just to express delight that even as I sweat to think of any good unmentioned points, I truly respect the ability of the Oly community to put across its points objectively. I'm actually sitting back enjoying your postings (aside from that Trolly one of course seeing that you could word your points way better. Proud to be associated with this community & hope to meet you all in person one day

I believe civil members here take pride & pain in establishing facts, whether your choice is Oly or otherwise thereafter, you have our blessings

Even as an Oly E1 user, I envy the compact yet durable form factor of the E300 for travel amongst so much that's said.

In Awe,

Dear Non-Oly folks,
I understand what you are trying to say. I understand your good intention and effort. I learned now that there are many different digital SLR users and every one is shooting what others are not.

Many Oly users are very happy with their equipment for what they shoot. I like the E300 in some ways and will also feel lost in with it shooting in some situations. I hope some Oly users can contribute their experience to check if the savings is worth it. Below are some questions and comments I pose to the Oly folks.

a. I will like it shooting a group photograph of 100 people posing for me in a bright situation. The extra resolution and 'full frame' will do the trick nicely for a 18 inch wide photo - with a bit of fixing. This is important shot for me due to bread and butter issue.
b. Can I shoot gymnastics and diving sports with it? You may know, it involves not so bright light at times and fast moving people.
c. Can I shoot with ease during fast pace Ceremonial/ prize giving events where I cannot miss a shot with stage lighting. What lens to use?
d. How to shoot macro with this camera? Just need two or three times magnification.

I landed up with the Canon system with 3 different bodies and six lenses. It does the trick with the lowest cost setup. I feel a bit comfortable as I can cover my small and focused shooting job well enough with it. I hate to change system mid way. I nearly went the oly way but some knowledgeable chap made me think harder a few years back, before E300. Just wondering if the situation has changed?

 

[chancy]

Dear Non-Oly folks,
I understand what you are trying to say. I understand your good intention and effort. I learned now that there are many different digital SLR users and every one is shooting what others are not.

Many Oly users are very happy with their equipment for what they shoot. I like the E300 in some ways and will also feel lost in with it shooting in some situations. I hope some Oly users can contribute their experience to check if the savings is worth it. Below are some questions and comments I pose to the Oly folks.

a. I will like it shooting a group photograph of 100 people posing for me in a bright situation. The extra resolution and 'full frame' will do the trick nicely for a 18 inch wide photo - with a bit of fixing. This is important shot for me due to bread and butter issue.
b. Can I shoot gymnastics and diving sports with it? You may know, it involves not so bright light at times and fast moving people.
c. Can I shoot with ease during fast pace Ceremonial/ prize giving events where I cannot miss a shot with stage lighting. What lens to use?
d. How to shoot macro with this camera? Just need two or three times magnification.

I landed up with the Canon system with 3 different bodies and six lenses. It does the trick with the lowest cost setup. I feel a bit comfortable as I can cover my small and focused shooting job well enough with it. I hate to change system mid way. I nearly went the oly way but some knowledgeable chap made me think harder a few years back, before E300. Just wondering if the situation has changed?

Hello Toggy,

If you will, the posts from Oly members here are in response to Johnny's request for views on the E300; it's does appear that his requirements differs from yours; seems too that initial requirements have swelled along the way

In anyone's calculation of savings, while flexibility & expandability is important consideration to cater for growth, one needs to consider the possibility of actually the using camera in the expected situations in the lifetime of the system. If not, one might actually be overpaying while trying to achieve savings. That means that for the majority, the body kit will give them most if not all the mileage the seek. There will always be a minority whose needs are met only by the best specified (read priciest system).

Tomcat has achieved savings in weight & comfort for travel photography at an image quality he found comparable to the Canon system he has; the savings he gained is beyond monetary.

If there's a 80% possibility that any photographer would end up needing to use his equipment for ALL the scenarios you pose, I would suggest a NNx or CCdsMkNN brand right away. But I sensibly don't think it would be the right direction to point a poser to by DEFAULT.

If its a bread and butter issue, why not look at maximising profit rather than savings; just get the best tool for each requirement. Don't stick to one system, most compromise in some way, for more or less. There're surely arguments for Medium Format digital backs, Large Format Film Cameras, and the photojournalist favourite brands, even the simple digicams & maybe mechanical rangefinders.

If Johnny describes the same requirements you did & is clear that he actually wants them after we ascertain his requirements, I would highlight the shortcomings of the E-System for reconsideration & direct him to the brands & models some expect to hear. For the upteenth time I'm repeating, visit the Oly SLR forums on dpreview and see why some folks using the best from the big names have settled for the E-System. These are professionals & they know the trade-offs when moving from one system to the other or using a mix of both.

We're not saying or even pretending that Oly's existing solutions are the end all to everyone's needs. We highlight from our experience what we think are wonderful attributes for consideration.

In a short answer to your poser, I feel that for the years that's passed since Oly introduced the E-System, the situation has changed & changed for the better for the MAJORITY of us. And if your needs is representative of the majority, then I can say the E-System isn't for photographers in general.

I have my E1 for just over a year, the warranty has expired. Give the system time to mature as the other makers have. Every new system or platform has its infancy period, if there're urgently needed features absent in the existing products, but all means use the alternatives. Minolta & Canon both gave up their popular manual focus mounts at some time & had their time of infancy. Let Oly have theirs; despite the naysayers.

BTW1: anyone care to name a camera that cannot miss a shot with stage lighting.

BTW2: Using the OM-Adaptor gains you access to the Zuiko 20mm F2 macro. On a 35mm film system you get magnifications from 4.2-13x, put the same lens on an E-System & the magnification range doubles to 26x. Olympus makes microscopes & scopes that goes into your body for a living; native E-System macrophotography for Olympus is but a matter of time.

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photograph...ympusom1n2/shared/zuiko/htmls/macrozuikoB.htm

Cheers,