In need of a Touring Camcorder.

[Flashbulb]

My budget is Singapore Dollar $1000 for a decent camcorder.

my style is that i simply record continuously rather then on and off in case miss those unique moments. So i need something that has emphasis on storage space + power efficiency for longer battery life. Should be design to change the battery asap also as well as quick boot time. Should have a smart system to switch from indoor settings to outdoor settings or even daylight and nightime if possible or able to auto adjust from slow to fast in case i go on roller coaster rides. Bonus would be decent manual controls.

so far my option is those camcorders using memory cards like SDHC which is convenient but the trade-off is loss of quality compared to minidv and my budget more or less means 1 CCD type.

I will be bringing it overseas which is why the budget is small as more or less i expect to break it accidentally in the near future.:sweat:

with Comex 2008 coming close, any particular models to recommend?

Can be old models or clearance models as well. Just need something that will do the job.

Is SG$1000 enough?

 

[jaegersing]

If you stretch your budget a bit and get the Canon HV30 you will not regret it. The picture quality cannot be beaten in this price range, and it is a handy size for travelling. It has many manual settings but can also switch to full auto instantly if that is what you want.

Here's some examples of HV30 taken this year while I was travelling.

http://www.vimeo.com/961617
http://www.vimeo.com/892592
http://www.vimeo.com/823821
http://www.vimeo.com/814237
http://www.vimeo.com/808603
http://www.vimeo.com/1537396

 

[Flashbulb]

If thats the best for my current budget, thanks for the tip. Looks like there is no avoiding tapes and realtime file transfer.

current price is officially $1999.
http://www.canon.com.sg/index.cfm?fuseaction=consumer_promo

 

[chanxj]

I think can get at 1.6k and lower for hv30.

 

[jaegersing]

Yes, you shouldn't need to pay Canon official prices for this cam.

 

[Flashbulb]

Found also a 3 CCD Panasonic NV-GS330 going for $999 with 2 year warranty. Only prob is that i see mostly bad reviews and that Panasonic left out a lot of common parts in this one.

If i ignore DV tapes and open up my choices to flash based camcorders but the tradeoff is the quality which kinda sucks, would i get better specs for the buck as compared to using DV tapes. any models to recommend as tmw going here and there to check out camera shops since Harvey Norman and Courts in my area mostly is Canon and Sony. is there something like a check list for value for money camcorders or known shops good for budget camcorders?

eg of cameras i have seen Canon FS10 $999, Panasonic SDR-S7 $499, JVC GR-D820 $399 and so on.

is this buy guide really accurate http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-7607_7-6871382-2.html
__________________

 

[chanxj]

I feel that tape is still pretty economical. with panasonic tapes at $3 a piece, its ok cause i dun need to worry too much of not clearing my memory cards yet etc. I have personally used the hv30 in many instances and it is really good due to its bigger sensor size than ths fs10 so it peforms better in low light and many other cameras in its class. Its a good investment.

 

[Flashbulb]

okay..have read some more and it appears that the video quality actually is more dependable on the camera specs and the recording format/method as opposed to choice of media which are merely containers. Also that it is not a good idea to keep re-using tapes and there is the one in a thousand chance of tape jams and so on.

I am pretty new at this but is it possible to record in minidv(tape) format but save to memory card? Is the difference in quality that much obvious?

Is there really no flash based camcorders that can put up a fight against the HV30 at similar or lower price point? I plan to shoot at highest quality all the time while travelling so the idea of small yet lots of space sd cards appeal to me.

 

[chanxj]

It has partly to do with the file format(as far as the consumer world is concerned).HV 30 shoots into hdv on tape while the flash base camcorder shoot to avchd(due to the media's datarate limitation) which offical avchd specification datarate goes to 24mbps max(haven't seen a consumer one which can meet that maximum standard) while hdv is already higher than that.

It is not a good idea to keep reusing the tapes due to stretching and wear and tear etc, but tapes are a good way for long term archival unless u plan on getting tons of harddisk. Even if you get tons of harddisk, the tapes can be used as a secondary backup.

Every media has its own problems. As much as tape jams(haven't encountered one as yet), memory cards do fail and may not be available where ur touring while tapes on the other hand are cheaper and you can bring more spares while memory cards enable faster uploading to the computer.

 

[Flashbulb]

I dont have issues with AVCHD since my computer is pretty advanced and if needed i can do a 100% overclock. Its just that against older HDV camcorders are the newer AVCHD camcorders still no fight?

Stretching, wear and tear? Feels like a bit risky also my place not really have the capacity for tapes storage, with average 1hr per tape that means i need to carry around 12 tapes as well as have 12hr of realtime file transfer. Actually i plan to more or less get more 1TB hdd as when needed as its freaking cheap now. Now that i think about it, flash based camcorders do make sense as can just copy and paste the contents quickly like using asus eeepc to a external hdd and then edit at home.

actually memory cards especially by Sandisk here are also becoming cheaper like singapore dollars $45 for 8GB SD with officially warranty and around $20-ish for non-warranty version.

do you know of any websites that constantly test flash based camcorders against tapes based ones or something like a flash based camcorder users forum for end user reviews?

I will be using the price/spec of the HV30 as a benchmark. If price is right, i might also go for 720p camcorders instead as i am using progressive screens and from past experience..720p videos look nicer than 1080i ones on most of the monitors i have used including both plasma and even crt.

 

[jaegersing]

The major disadvantage with tapes is not what you mention. For example, it is very unlikely you need to shoot 12 hours of tape in one outing, and I've never had a problem with tape stretch after many years and hundreds of tapes (I don't re-use my tapes because they are a great archive medium). No, the main disadvantage is the capture time. Copying files from a hard disk or memory card is much faster than real-time video capture from tape. This would be the number one factor that pushes me towards a tapeless solution (or maybe a dual-media solution like tape plus hard disk).

Regarding quality, at the moment HDV is better than AVCHD, partly because the AVCHD data rates used are limited to 15 or 17 Mbps. (Other reasons are due to the camera lens and sensor quality because the target market for low end cameras does not put quality as the most important reason to buy). But this will change soon. Next month the Canon HG20/21 (hard disk based) models will be available, with data rates up to 24 Mbps which is the highest allowed in the AVCHD spec. If these are implemented well, the quality should be superb, but you would not be able to buy these models unless you increase your budget.

If you are looking for very low cost and tapeless, I doubt if you will get great quality. Ultimately, you need to decide what is most important for you.

 

[Flashbulb]

I am not looking for great quality. just the best that my budget can get. More or less i know now what i would normally get for a thousand and what i would get for more. Before going to the shops, i have created a checklist of specs and features that must have and optional that would be nice to have as well as rough pricings of camcorders from online websites.

 

[jaegersing]

Whatever you decide, you should be able to take good video with most of the cams around nowadays. Hope you get a good deal. :thumbsup:

 

[Flashbulb]

More or less decided on the HF100 and it costs $1,899.00 officially.

if i get it from Zipzoomfly and Newegg its about SG$900-ish only. WTF...

hahahahah.

any major specs difference between HF10 and HF100 other than the HF10 coming with built in 16GB. (I dont really like built in, "damn-difficult to change" memory)

Now waiting for reply from the various online retailers regarding shipping and warranty issues.

For those who use SDHC, would the 6MB/s memory cards be good as i am planning to get a couple of 8/16GBs or should go for those 15MB/sec type?

 

[FilterFunk]

dont think there is any other difference other than the memory and the colour of the device. grey vs black

 

[scubanel]

HI,

If you are thinking of one camcorder that you may not necessary need to use it very often. Small, compact reasonably performance and most of the time you are taking videos in adequate lighting. I will recommend you to go for a Sanyo HD2, HD700 or HD1000. Include the travel external charger (OEM) and cards should not exceed your budget. Can get them from SIM LIM SQUARE.

this setup has got docking station, direct download into a laptop, even an HDMI cable link for your LCD. Battery usage is about 1.5 to 2 hours. Handy and light. I used to own one HD 2, now considering for one HD1000 or the HD1010. Performance is pretty reasonable except for higher noise level if you are doing in low lighting places.

 

[scubanel]

Other wise may also consider a more bulky piece like JVC miniDV or the Panasonic that performs pretty good with lower lighting condition. Surprisingly, for some popular makes their performances in fact looses to camcorders of expected lower efficieny. Do your search for a better piece if you wish to own one for a longer period without compromising your expectations. Otherwise for your budget, I reckon you got not much variety. Happy shooting

 

[scubanel]

Other wise may also consider a more bulky piece like JVC miniDV or the Panasonic that performs pretty good with lower lighting condition. Surprisingly, for some popular makes their performances in fact looses to camcorders of expected lower efficieny. Do your search for a better piece if you wish to own one for a longer period without compromising your expectations. Otherwise for your budget, I reckon you got not much variety. Happy shooting

 

[Flashbulb]

thanks for the tip but more or less it is the Canon HF100 for me. still a few questions though,

For those who use SDHC, would the 6MB/s memory cards be good as i am planning to get a couple of 8/16GBs or should go for those 15MB/sec type?

Is there alternative for the somewhat pricey Canon BP-819 batteries?

Should i get the mic along with it?

nicer to shoot at 720p or 1080i i wonder?

anything i need to take care of when bringing it overseas like maintenance?

and where can i get a fair price for 16GB SDHC in SG?

 

[chanxj]

u should get the higher speeds sdhc cards of at least class 4, preferbly class 6.