I Want Higher Taxes, Really!

[jsbn]

i dun know, it seems many posted on this issue r looking at the big pic. this is not condemning, i view it as "room for improvement". alas, whatever issues & solutions voiced out will not likely be heard, juz like the old days.

its has a lot to do with how is the tax raised, what ground, how much, its effect, its uses, etc. before any sane person wants an increase in taxes. i understand too that tax hike is inevitable, but too soon too much. someone already suggested a "cushion" that is... 6% next yr & 7% in '08. i personally feel this is a better approach. however, i also want to see more fine tuning of the overall tax sys as the GST increases, reducing or abolish certain taxes or levies perhaps?

u have a good day too. & no, i have no intention to make this a personal attack either. :lovegrin:

The saying goes, "U can't please everyone."

Room for Improvement? There's always room for improvement for everything else including policies. If that fine-tuning is being made continuously (4 million population to be precise), all the time. I guess the poor MPs, even with their alleged $10K allowance have to set up tents in Parliament Building and work in there 24/7.

Oh, they are Humans as well. With their own Rights amongst the basics to go home & eat, drink, sleep, piss, shit, screw as well as chill-out like everybody else.

Assuming if all 4 million Singaporeans have a degree in economics, each interpretation of text are different (leading to potentially 100 different types of physical test scores) for exams.

Pulling in religion as an analogy, can we guarantee 2 pastors having exactly the same interpretation of a scripture text in a religious book even though the religious book is a standard issue amongst the places of worship?

 

[centuryegg]

Well sad to say.... in war, it is true that the Geneva Convention holds no ground. It is just talk and no action. I mean realistically speaking it is a war zone, unless you are saying there are neutral observers to monitor you and penalise you for breaking the convention, who is going to stop you?

Examples Geneva Convention Rules

1) No shooting at red cross or medics

2) No torture allowed

3) POW will be treated humanely

In reality

1) Aim and make sure you take out the red cross vehicles, also shoot the medic. Reasoning? Deprive enemy of medical care

2) Torture all you can to extract valuable intel

3) No POWs, shoot all prisoners after intel has been extracted. POWs slow down an unit's advance and are a threat. Besides waste of resources to feed them.

I am no saying the above because they are my views, I am saying them because they are what is happening in the world.

 

[AReality]

Many Singaporeans are willing to give their 5 plates, and much much more.

And I'm certain a lot more will not give away 5 plates...


.

 

[josho]

Im wondering SPM and MM pay....

In the end of the day, we suffer.
U complain, u kena watch.
You said something against them, you kena ban.
You do something funny, you are 'protected 24hr'.
You organise for something real funny, you go in chalet without any long term debation.

Freedom? I think we are birds in the cage. Fish in the tank. Master give you how much u take. Take back if over loaded. They are our Nanny.

 

[jsbn]

Well sad to say.... in war, it is true that the Geneva Convention holds no ground. It is just talk and no action. I mean realistically speaking it is a war zone, unless you are saying there are neutral observers to monitor you and penalise you for breaking the convention, who is going to stop you?

Examples Geneva Convention Rules

1) No shooting at red cross or medics

2) No torture allowed

3) POW will be treated humanely

In reality

1) Aim and make sure you take out the red cross vehicles, also shoot the medic. Reasoning? Deprive enemy of medical care

2) Torture all you can to extract valuable intel

3) No POWs, shoot all prisoners after intel has been extracted. POWs slow down an unit's advance and are a threat. Besides waste of resources to feed them.

I am no saying the above because they are my views, I am saying them because they are what is happening in the world.

U'd forgotten. The dumbest of the dumbest.

Combatants are NOT ALLOWED to fire at parachuting enemy troopers since they are considered "unarmed" and do not possess the ability to fire (cos their 2 hands are tied with holding the chute line) back or defend themselves properly.

Wah lao, see airborne troopers I first to spray at them once they come into range liaoz. Once they're on the ground I wun stand a chance!

As for the red cross vehicle, well I wun put a LAW and wreck it considering the valuable medical supplies that are in there. Take out a wheel. Force the medics to stop and repair, take 'em out. Spray any moving things inside and steal the vehicle. *nyak-nyak-nyak* :devil:

 

[dkw]

And I'm certain a lot more will not give away 5 plates...


.

Then they are cutting their noses to spite their faces. What is the price of good government? There any other government in the world you'd import to take over the present one? In the field that I work in, my peers in other nations are in awe of the foresight and determination of the government to pursue and establish the industry. Intelligent risk taking? We have it in gobs and gobs. Yeah sure, once in a while we get a Shin Corp blow up, but nothing ventured, nothing gained, yes?

I hate to use this adage, but "A fool knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing."

 

[waileong]

You guys are looking at the wrong Geneva convention. Look at the "Universal Declaration of Human Rights" (eg http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html) and try to understand it. Not just what it says but how it came about.

Well sad to say.... in war, it is true that the Geneva Convention holds no ground. It is just talk and no action. I mean realistically speaking it is a war zone, unless you are saying there are neutral observers to monitor you and penalise you for breaking the convention, who is going to stop you?

 

[waileong]

Well sad to say.... in war, it is true that the Geneva Convention holds no ground. It is just talk and no action. I mean realistically speaking it is a war zone, unless you are saying there are neutral observers to monitor you and penalise you for breaking the convention, who is going to stop you?

A bit OT but I'll just reply here:

Geneva convention represents a set of principles for the humane conduct of war. As you said, no one can stop you on the battlefield. But if you lose, be prepared to face the war crimes tribunals... which will use the Geneva convention as the yardstick in their proceedings. And the max sentence is death by hanging...

Even if you win, lets hope there are no embedded journalists in your unit... and no one posts the video of you shooting unarmed civilians to youtube.com...

 

[jsbn]

The laws to be passed by the cowardice of the victors sitting in their high chairs upon those who had fought and were defeated.

A war, regardless, is cruel. Want to be humane? Don't start wars at all. Plain and simple.

 

[Gymrat76]

The laws to be passed by the cowardice of the victors sitting in their high chairs upon those who had fought and were defeated.

A war, regardless, is cruel. Want to be humane? Don't start wars at all. Plain and simple.

You are going way off the topic of this thread dude

 

[Silence Sky]

Do we seriously believe that a 2% increase in GST will bring about social compactness and social equality? How many 2% had we paid so far?
I think, all of us will have no qualm at all if the hike in GST is truly used for nation building purposes. Since, there will be no book, who knows the money will be used to fund the black hole (Investment in Suzhou and Euro Dollar and the Elites).

There is so much wailing and howling, all because people simply do not buy into their ideas and reasoning. There is no national debate on this issue and no respect is shown to the public and their wishes. With the announcement, it is as good as, the legislators have passed the law. That is it, no more room for discussion, just take it.

Is there better alternatives?
I would prefer they restore the 20% employer contribution for the poor (<$1000). Any taxes will result in dead weight losses, in the process of helping the poor will create more poor to be helped. I think restoring the 20% should not be a problem since our economy is so “strong” and the outlook is so “great”.

Do we really need the 33 extra standing space on the MRT? I would like to see the 140 million being used to help the poor. I am a MRT user, the average ride is only about 35 mins, and I really do not need a first class cabin (we have to pay for it). Just keep it clean will do.

You all mentioned: Pay peanut you get monkey.
But paying a lot of peanut you will get elephant.
Do you remember what ex DBS CEO Philippe Paillart said when the bank is not performing? “Oh… It is the world thing, there’s not much we can do when the world economy is in the doldrums.”
How do we pay our ministers, better than world class right?
So, I expect them to buck the trend and come out with good solutions without digging into my pocket.

As long the Elites pegged themselves to the top 10%, we will never achieve social compact. Will they ever learn how to swim if they keep themselves dry? I think the game will be totally different if their pays are pegged to the bottom 10%.

 

[creampuff]

A little poison won't kill you immediately...
Over here one can see the perfect example of the art of the slow death. It's like the analogy of slowly boiling a pot of water from room temperature with a frog in the pot. The frog will die but sloooooowly, suffering all the way.:angry:

 

[azul123]

Do we seriously believe that a 2% increase in GST will bring about social compactness and social equality? How many 2% had we paid so far?
I think, all of us will have no qualm at all if the hike in GST is truly used for nation building purposes. Since, there will be no book, who knows the money will be used to fund the black hole (Investment in Suzhou and Euro Dollar and the Elites).

There is so much wailing and howling, all because people simply do not buy into their ideas and reasoning. There is no national debate on this issue and no respect is shown to the public and their wishes. With the announcement, it is as good as, the legislators have passed the law. That is it, no more room for discussion, just take it.

Is there better alternatives?
I would prefer they restore the 20% employer contribution for the poor (<$1000). Any taxes will result in dead weight losses, in the process of helping the poor will create more poor to be helped. I think restoring the 20% should not be a problem since our economy is so &#8220;strong&#8221; and the outlook is so &#8220;great&#8221;.

Do we really need the 33 extra standing space on the MRT? I would like to see the 140 million being used to help the poor. I am a MRT user, the average ride is only about 35 mins, and I really do not need a first class cabin (we have to pay for it). Just keep it clean will do.

You all mentioned: Pay peanut you get monkey.
But paying a lot of peanut you will get elephant.
Do you remember what ex DBS CEO Philippe Paillart said when the bank is not performing? &#8220;Oh&#8230; It is the world thing, there&#8217;s not much we can do when the world economy is in the doldrums.&#8221;
How do we pay our ministers, better than world class right?
So, I expect them to buck the trend and come out with good solutions without digging into my pocket.

As long the Elites pegged themselves to the top 10%, we will never achieve social compact. Will they ever learn how to swim if they keep themselves dry? I think the game will be totally different if their pays are pegged to the bottom 10%.

Well said. :thumbsup:

I just want to comment on the title, 'Outrages', you want higher taxes? what?

We all know nothing is for free, but there must be transparency and accountability in all matters relating to our money and investments.

../azul123

 

[vince123123]

What I meant was, to count per capita in Singapore vs per capita in other countries.

I already have, in a previous post in this thread. It is less than $1 per person/month.

 

[jsbn]

A little poison won't kill you immediately...
Over here one can see the perfect example of the art of the slow death. It's like the analogy of slowly boiling a pot of water from room temperature with a frog in the pot. The frog will die but sloooooowly, suffering all the way.:angry:

Does it really hurt?

Den cut down on spending. Sell ur gear if u need to. Sell ya car. Downgrade to a normal flat.
If u're still schooling, ask for less/no allowances and start working part-time to support ur own hobbies & purchases.

 

[centuryegg]

Do we seriously believe that a 2% increase in GST will bring about social compactness and social equality? How many 2% had we paid so far?
I think, all of us will have no qualm at all if the hike in GST is truly used for nation building purposes. Since, there will be no book, who knows the money will be used to fund the black hole (Investment in Suzhou and Euro Dollar and the Elites).

There is so much wailing and howling, all because people simply do not buy into their ideas and reasoning. There is no national debate on this issue and no respect is shown to the public and their wishes. With the announcement, it is as good as, the legislators have passed the law. That is it, no more room for discussion, just take it.

Is there better alternatives?
I would prefer they restore the 20% employer contribution for the poor (<$1000). Any taxes will result in dead weight losses, in the process of helping the poor will create more poor to be helped. I think restoring the 20% should not be a problem since our economy is so “strong” and the outlook is so “great”.

Do we really need the 33 extra standing space on the MRT? I would like to see the 140 million being used to help the poor. I am a MRT user, the average ride is only about 35 mins, and I really do not need a first class cabin (we have to pay for it). Just keep it clean will do.

You all mentioned: Pay peanut you get monkey.
But paying a lot of peanut you will get elephant.
Do you remember what ex DBS CEO Philippe Paillart said when the bank is not performing? “Oh… It is the world thing, there’s not much we can do when the world economy is in the doldrums.”
How do we pay our ministers, better than world class right?
So, I expect them to buck the trend and come out with good solutions without digging into my pocket.

As long the Elites pegged themselves to the top 10%, we will never achieve social compact. Will they ever learn how to swim if they keep themselves dry? I think the game will be totally different if their pays are pegged to the bottom 10%.

Applause applause! My sentiments exactly.... The problem with us is that we have been governed for so long by one party that we have forgotten how to think. We are taught the party is always right... yes you may grouse but end of the day you must say "The party knows best!!" After all they have been around for 40 over years! And I am one of the 66.6 percent that voted for the party hence party is good!!

However the point is have anyone ever thought about things like why are there so much behind the scenes? why as citizens we must just accept and cannot question? Why when we question, we are regarded as questioning the "elite".

The GST increase is just but one. Today the papers said that in parliament the ministers said to opposition MPs that they are NAIVE to think that they will get upgrading now that they have won. Reasoning?? Since you voted against the govt and its policies so why should we upgrade for you?

The thing is do they up there in the top really realise by now why they lost Potong Pasir all these years?? Despite all the abalone porridge, they still lose? Reasoning very simple.... we are all Singaporeans whether we are Chinese, Malay or Indian, Scholar or Grad, Grad or non Grad, father hawker or MP and whether we stay in Marine Parade or Potong Pasir.... but now it seems that only if your father is a member or friend of the party, you are a party supporter then are you a good Singaporean. If not... sorry hor.. no goodies for you... cos you disloyal brats.... The government might not think that way but the way it is doing things.. well people are certaintely thinking that way. And as I quote an middle aged lady I know, "well if the govt dont realise by now why they lose Potong Pasir, next round lose again lor"

 

[Wowee]

What is another 2%? The most it is a pinch for most of us...

What I do not like is the lack of accountability from Gar Ment... They can say what they like and give any figure they want.

Who is ALLOWED to check???

They could have lie about the figures for many years and nobody knows...

Not that I don't believe in our current leaders but the thought of having uncheck power in any government is very dangerous...

Even companies have to get independent auditors to check through their books every year. An outstanding CEO who is bringing the company profits still have to audit their accounts every year...

The question on most people's mind i guess is "Why is Singapore's government excluded from this most basic responsibility?" :angry:

 

[dkw]

Do we seriously believe that a 2% increase in GST will bring about social compactness and social equality? How many 2% had we paid so far?
I think, all of us will have no qualm at all if the hike in GST is truly used for nation building purposes. Since, there will be no book, who knows the money will be used to fund the black hole (Investment in Suzhou and Euro Dollar and the Elites).

There is so much wailing and howling, all because people simply do not buy into their ideas and reasoning. There is no national debate on this issue and no respect is shown to the public and their wishes. With the announcement, it is as good as, the legislators have passed the law. That is it, no more room for discussion, just take it.

Is there better alternatives?
I would prefer they restore the 20% employer contribution for the poor (<$1000). Any taxes will result in dead weight losses, in the process of helping the poor will create more poor to be helped. I think restoring the 20% should not be a problem since our economy is so “strong” and the outlook is so “great”.

Do we really need the 33 extra standing space on the MRT? I would like to see the 140 million being used to help the poor. I am a MRT user, the average ride is only about 35 mins, and I really do not need a first class cabin (we have to pay for it). Just keep it clean will do.

You all mentioned: Pay peanut you get monkey.
But paying a lot of peanut you will get elephant.
Do you remember what ex DBS CEO Philippe Paillart said when the bank is not performing? “Oh… It is the world thing, there’s not much we can do when the world economy is in the doldrums.”
How do we pay our ministers, better than world class right?
So, I expect them to buck the trend and come out with good solutions without digging into my pocket.

As long the Elites pegged themselves to the top 10%, we will never achieve social compact. Will they ever learn how to swim if they keep themselves dry? I think the game will be totally different if their pays are pegged to the bottom 10%.

Some interesting and valid points, though I disagree on many. I'll get back to you when I have a little more time this evening.

 

[dkw]

Applause applause! My sentiments exactly.... The problem with us is that we have been governed for so long by one party that we have forgotten how to think. We are taught the party is always right... yes you may grouse but end of the day you must say "The party knows best!!" After all they have been around for 40 over years! And I am one of the 66.6 percent that voted for the party hence party is good!!

However the point is have anyone ever thought about things like why are there so much behind the scenes? why as citizens we must just accept and cannot question? Why when we question, we are regarded as questioning the "elite".

The GST increase is just but one. Today the papers said that in parliament the ministers said to opposition MPs that they are NAIVE to think that they will get upgrading now that they have won. Reasoning?? Since you voted against the govt and its policies so why should we upgrade for you?

The thing is do they up there in the top really realise by now why they lost Potong Pasir all these years?? Despite all the abalone porridge, they still lose? Reasoning very simple.... we are all Singaporeans whether we are Chinese, Malay or Indian, Scholar or Grad, Grad or non Grad, father hawker or MP and whether we stay in Marine Parade or Potong Pasir.... but now it seems that only if your father is a member or friend of the party, you are a party supporter then are you a good Singaporean. If not... sorry hor.. no goodies for you... cos you disloyal brats.... The government might not think that way but the way it is doing things.. well people are certaintely thinking that way. And as I quote an middle aged lady I know, "well if the govt dont realise by now why they lose Potong Pasir, next round lose again lor"

I agree that the petty politicking is really infantile, and I hate it myself. They deserve to continue being excluded from PP and Hougang, and more! However, it does not mean that if someone agrees or supports a g'ment position, that he has stopped thinking for himself. I hope that I have convinced of that, at the very least.

Furthermore, I also disagree that you are not allowed to question the g'ment. You absolutely have the right and IT IS YOUR DUTY to ensure that as a citizen, you play an active role in shaping policies. There are many opportunities to do so, and I have occasionally partaken in some of them. BUT, do so INTELLIGENTLY! Do your homework and understand the issues. If you fail to do so, you will get run out of town by the elite, and.....gasp, sometimes if folk sat back andd reflected a little before going off on a tilt, they might actually come to the conclusion that the g'ment was right after all!

Do your civic duty. Protect the poor and vulnerable. Pay your taxes. Understand the issues. Hold your leaders accountable. Do it.

 

[Wowee]

Then they are cutting their noses to spite their faces. What is the price of good government? There any other government in the world you'd import to take over the present one? In the field that I work in, my peers in other nations are in awe of the foresight and determination of the government to pursue and establish the industry. Intelligent risk taking? We have it in gobs and gobs. Yeah sure, once in a while we get a Shin Corp blow up, but nothing ventured, nothing gained, yes?

I hate to use this adage, but "A fool knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing."

I do not mind paying but I would like to KNOW what am i paying for... Revealing the minister's pay is a good MINOR step in the right direction...

Shin Corp saga is a mega sc*w up and yet there is nothing from the Top... Just crossing the fingers and hope that s'poreans would forget...

Any explaination given? Nope...

How many more Shin Corps are there? Nobody knows...

Can I say we have a good government? Nobody can say definitely because WE DON"T KNOW...