I really think Prosumer Camera can take sharper pictures than DSLR + Cheaper lens

[daredevil123]

Firstly, the topic is about sharper picture than dSLR with a cheaper lens. For the 500D, did you factor in the lens or referring to just the body + kit. I am just quoting from online store price.

Well, as for the on the shelf dSLR, it only reach at the best F1 car speed but prosumer compact has already reach rocket speed of 40-60 fps.

Yup...

G11 is listed RRP at $899. I've already seen some store selling it at $820 with freebies. How much is the 500D again?

 

[Akatsuki]

Each got their pros and cons,

If you are going the DSLR route, get the best lens you can afford. I see no point in shooting with a, say 18-55 + onboard flash.

No flame intended. I myself started with a 18-55 non IS + onboard flash, shooting @ various cosplay event. But if you have no desire to get better lens/flashes, might as well get a G11 or LX3. More cost effective this way. When 1 jump on the DSLR bandwagon, cost effectivness is thrown out of the window ;p

 

[soons]

Each got their pros and cons,

If you are going the DSLR route, get the best lens you can afford. I see no point in shooting with a, say 18-55 + onboard flash.

No flame intended. I myself started with a 18-55 non IS + onboard flash, shooting @ various cosplay event. But if you have no desire to get better lens/flashes, might as well get a G11 or LX3. More cost effective this way. When 1 jump on the DSLR bandwagon, cost effectivness is thrown out of the window ;p

Going RP this weekend?
See you at AFA09. lolx


@Back to topic:
A lot of people seems to miss the last line on my first post. :/
Cos at some point in time, I really wonder why lens like 18-200 non OS/VC or 70-300 non IS/OS/VC are around when a super-zoom prosumer can do most of the job. No doubt DSLR might be faster, but u might end of a OOF or blur shot due to not following 1/focal length rule. Smaller sensor seems to have lesser impact on long focal length shots with IS.

After all, I find a DSLR + those cheap lens are somewhat a waste of money since superzoom prosumer can do similar job at a cheaper price.

 

[Limsgp]

Well.. to be fair, your examples is indeed impressive.

However, the picture appears that it has undergone some aggressive NR.. The colour noise seems to be missing.

So maybe newer PnS has some advance NR processing that helps to reduce the noise. But there'll be some trade off in sharpness..

While your examples does shows the noise capability of the PnS, the question is, under the same testing conditions, is the result better than that of a DSLR?

When Prosumer like G11, I think this Prosumer is really on par with some SONY and Olympus DSLRs in terms of noise performance.

Last time, small sensors never did this great.

 

[Anson]

As for the zooming speed, if it can zoom very fast from 18mm to 270mm, probably it'll be a pain to set the precise FL, say, 135mm? chances are it will overshoot, then need to adjust back, or stop prematurely, then adjust forward..? Anyway, maybe I'm not in a position to comment on that coz I don't use PnS

Not all non-dslr use zoom-lever. My FZ50 for example had a fully manual zoom & focus ring.

• Is it a dslr? No.
• Can it zoom as fast as a dslr? Yes.
• Can I adjust it to any FL within 35-420mm? Yes.
• Do I have to adjust it forward & backwards? No.

 

[JPLim]

I am also from prosumer camera background. [Panasonic FZ50]
The reasons that I upgrade to DSLR are:
1) DOF
2) Faster startup time & AF speed
3) Low light ability
4) Lens flexibility

 

[Limsgp]

There are DSLR that looks like PnS (e.g. EP-1). And there are PnS that have manual zoom controls like DSLR.

I'm referring to those electronic controlled zooming models. For those like the DMC FZ50 that looks practically like DSLR (minus the option to change lens), of course the zooming will work the same way.

Actually I was replying to the TS who mentioned a USM operated zoom. Is yours operated solely by electronics instead of manual zooming? No. So not relevant.

But you did bought up a valid point that not all PnS is w/o manual zooming. One less reason to chose a DSLR with super zoom over the high end PnS.

Not all non-dslr use zoom-lever. My FZ50 for example had a fully manual zoom & focus ring.

• Is it a dslr? No.
• Can it zoom as fast as a dslr? Yes.
• Can I adjust it to any FL within 35-420mm? Yes.
• Do I have to adjust it forward & backwards? No.

 

[mynameisgreg]

right now its about $1100 wkit lens which imho is in the same price range. Well TS was talking about the noise control at that point in the discussion so it seems like the discussion has moved on from where it started. It seems you too have caught on to the direction of the discussion by offering a feature of the compact camera that is superior to dslrs? 40-60fps? could you elaborate on this?

TS i think youre missing the point.. there are major differences between the compact and a dslr which satisfies different needs of different customers. in other words to some ppl they feel that to get the job done they need a compact but to others a dslr. Even if it is a cheap lens and the compact gives superior sharpness, it isnt all to this that ppl select their tools. its like i said earlier, faster Honda than BMW, ppl still say BMW better.

 

[wkteoh]

Hmmm, this is actually a pretty complicated issue.. to settle things once and for all, rigorous tests and comparisons are needed, including but not limited to side by side tests of image quality, response time, etc. Until then people will just keep on expressing their opinions endlessly.

 

[daredevil123]

Not all non-dslr use zoom-lever. My FZ50 for example had a fully manual zoom & focus ring.

• Is it a dslr? No.
• Can it zoom as fast as a dslr? Yes.
• Can I adjust it to any FL within 35-420mm? Yes.
• Do I have to adjust it forward & backwards? No.

Quite a number of the Fuji S series are also manual zoom. S9500, S100fd S200exr all comes to mind

 

[daredevil123]

right now its about $1100 wkit lens which imho is in the same price range....

Actually the common market price is more like 1250 after GST (in popular shops like MSC etc..). That is $400 more than a G11. Your 'same' price range seems to be very wide as the 500D kit is almost 50% more expensive than the G11. :bigeyes:

 

[night86mare]

hey, whatever gets you the pictures you want

who cares?

 

[TheStig]

After all, I find a DSLR + those cheap lens are somewhat a waste of money since superzoom prosumer can do similar job at a cheaper price.

I dunno whether to agree with you or not. I do agree that good glass makes a lot of difference. You can see the difference between Canon's 18-55 and 17-55 or 17-40 (although it's not a fair comparison because 17-55 is faster and 17-40 is an L-series lens). On the other hand, if someone wants to take good, sharp pics with their entry level DSLR (say, canon 1000D), they can just get the 50mm f1.8 II, which delivers GREAT image quality at about f4.0. The money they spend will only a little more than what they'd have to spend on a prosumer compact. I have a 50mm f1.8 lens and it's shaaaaaaaarp, although at f1.8 it's less sharp (I also own a 24-70 f2.8 L and 70-200 f2.8 L IS, so I know a thing or two about sharpness). I have yet to see a prosumer camera that can match its sharpness. I own a Panasonic LX3, and after looking at 100% crop, I can see the difference between a compact and a DSLR. The difference is huge to say the least. As we all know, the LX3 is one of the best compacts around.

I dunno, but I think it's more of a fair match if you compare a macro four third (like Panasonic GF1 and Olympus EP-1) and a DSLR. A panasonic GF1 with kit lens is a lot more expensive than an entry level DSLR with decent lens.

 

[night86mare]

After all, I find a DSLR + those cheap lens are somewhat a waste of money since superzoom prosumer can do similar job at a cheaper price.

it depends on "what job" you are talking about. simply put.

i could name many things that superzooms are problematic about. that said, superzooms can take good shots. of course!

but things like

1) high iso performance, which countless people have mentioned

2) bulb mode. i am not sure if prosumers offer it now, but they didn't.

3) diffraction coming in really quickly into play, thereby limiting min aperture size. i can shoot at f/22 in dslr, i don't recall doing it with my h2. max was f/8.

4) dof control on prosumer is a hard game, even compared to dslr with kit lens.. let alone dslr with 50mm f/1.8.

5) viewfinder versus electronic viewfinder.

the list goes on, really.

 

[Anson]

But you did bought up a valid point that not all PnS is w/o manual zooming.

That the part that I am bring across, non-dslr are not alike.

Generally non-dslr (with smaller sensor) sucks in low light condition. Hence it is up to the PG to learn to "control" the noise to work around this limitation.

For dslr with superzoom, noise is less of an issue (when compared to PnS) and the pix is less "cooked" compared to a PnS. Hence this allow you more leverage to PP your shots later

I would say if you don't intent to PP your shots, a PnS often would get good Out of the Box result. :bsmilie:

Quite a number of the Fuji S series are also manual zoom. S9500, S100fd S200exr all comes to mind

But none had a hotshoe for an external TTL flash. :think:

 

[Lolrence]

People don't buy a DSLR just for the better quality of photos (or for you think, the reverse), it's for the flexibility to change lenses, to use powerful flashes, better ISO quality, better bokeh, to fit into the crowd.... etc etc etc.

 

[Limsgp]

juz for info.. Some casio models can hit 300fps. 60fps if full-sized. Not video mode (I guess). But those are like exotic models.. but maybe quite fun to play with.. ;p

right now its about $1100 wkit lens which imho is in the same price range. Well TS was talking about the noise control at that point in the discussion so it seems like the discussion has moved on from where it started. It seems you too have caught on to the direction of the discussion by offering a feature of the compact camera that is superior to dslrs? 40-60fps? could you elaborate on this?

 

[hoppie]

lol i dont see the point of this discussion. Noise performance is attrocious compared to even my dslr which btw is a 500d.and the g11 is in the same price range as the 500d, so how would it even compare to the better DSLRs available?
2ndly, if a compact camera could replace a DSLR there wouldnt be DSLRs around. Even micro 4/3rd cameras cant replace DSLRs and its much more similar to it than compacts. heck, crop cameras cant even replace FF cameras!!

take this example, a BMW 5 series and a HONDA civic type R or something.. 'eh! my kah can go from 0-100 in 6 secs! Beat your BM ah!'
so what?
even if IQ was better than a DSLR there are so many other factors involved which is what has been pointed out so many times in previous posts.
so TS if you still think that a compact is better than a DSLR just because of IQ. your discussion is moot. you are not a photographer but a hobbyist.

WOW, i din know 500D can get so cheap, can PM me how much you got it for and from where?

 

[soons]

:Face palm:
Most of you guys I pretty OOT... I am comparing DSLR + Cheap lens, not just DSLR body alone.
My Cheap lens is refering to telephoto zoom lens like 75-300 III USM, etc. I never mention anything about the famous plastic 50mm F1.8 II right? Of course I know 1 major plus of DSLR is the choices of lens without changing body.

Reason I posted this thread as I will really find it real stupid as I witness a person that insisted of getting a DSLR + a cheap zoom lens without IS/VR/VC/OS when knew he is budget. I tried convince him that it is not a wise choice since a prosumer is cheaper and promuser IS will be definately useful.

I ask him to get other lens instead of the super-zoom lens then he say 18-200 can do a lot of thing. =_=
Then I ask him to get other lens like 50mm, he isn't a person that appreciate prime and say 50mm cannot shoot a lot of thing.
(A pure example of a person who buy DSLR because of WOW factor and without any researching.)

 

[wildsoyabean]

:Face palm:
Most of you guys I pretty OOT... I am comparing DSLR + Cheap lens, not just DSLR body alone.
My Cheap lens is refering to telephoto zoom lens like 75-300 III USM, etc. I never mention anything about the famous plastic 50mm F1.8 II right? Of course I know 1 major plus of DSLR is the choices of lens without changing body.

Reason I posted this thread as I will really find it real stupid as I witness a person that insisted of getting a DSLR + a cheap zoom lens without IS/VR/VC/OS when knew he is budget. I tried convince him that it is not a wise choice since a prosumer is cheaper and promuser IS will be definately useful.

I ask him to get other lens instead of the super-zoom lens then he say 18-200 can do a lot of thing. =_=
Then I ask him to get other lens like 50mm, he isn't a person that appreciate prime and say 50mm cannot shoot a lot of thing.
(A pure example of a person who buy DSLR because of WOW factor and without any researching.)

haha....sure a person should just buy pns ...not even prosumer...
but....if he got $$$. who cares what he buys... buy M9 also can la