How much patience does a photo biz require?
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If you are good and lucky ( right time, right place, right people ), within 1 year ...
If you are average, plus a bit on luck on the economic up-trend cycle and some fund reserves, you can recoup within 2 - 3 years ...
If you are below average ( in terms of business acumen ), and NOT into marketing and resourceful, i think by the the 3rd year, you either fold-up or NEVER re-coup back you investments ...
Remember, Photography is an Art pursuit and self fuilfullment when you are doing it at your own time and manner, BUT an Investment of time, money, and business acumenship when you are DOING it for a living or lifetime Career.
Having said that -- ENJOY the journey !! :lovegrin:
Turning Pro sure can ruin your hobby. In the end you pick up another hobby while keeping photography strictly as a job.
I'm sure many can attest to you on this point.
I think deep pocket here means heavy investments and little returns... something like exchanging 1 dollar for 20 cents.
I'm sure many can attest to you on this point.
I think deep pocket here means heavy investments and little returns... something like exchanging 1 dollar for 20 cents.
Sion getting impatient? Haha, sorry for that OT.
It really depends on that you want to see. And which market segment you choose to go into. Enchanted has given a reasonable gauge for that segment, I feel.
Recoup investments? That will depend on how you choose to plan+execute (or not at all). My own, less than half a year for everything - that includes all my lights, upgrades in bodies and lenses, and accessories.
Smooth-sailing, that's another story. It took me 21 months to find the right people to work with, the right assistants, the right character. And a lot of grief prior to that. Rotten printing lab support, bad assistants (there is one who stole a monopod from me, stole client), bad photographers, been there, done it. Those fellow-photogs who met me last month will know what/who.
And I'm still keeping aside happy time for my personal outings and shooting. ;p
It really depends on that you want to see. And which market segment you choose to go into. Enchanted has given a reasonable gauge for that segment, I feel.
Recoup investments? That will depend on how you choose to plan+execute (or not at all). My own, less than half a year for everything - that includes all my lights, upgrades in bodies and lenses, and accessories.
Smooth-sailing, that's another story. It took me 21 months to find the right people to work with, the right assistants, the right character. And a lot of grief prior to that. Rotten printing lab support, bad assistants (there is one who stole a monopod from me, stole client), bad photographers, been there, done it. Those fellow-photogs who met me last month will know what/who.
And I'm still keeping aside happy time for my personal outings and shooting. ;p
I'm not in photo biz, but can attest to this.. when hobby became profession ..after awhile .. it became only job ... sigh ..!!
Perhaps it is just me. I used to enjoy photography as a hobby and being able to capture another good picture or upgrade my equipment is a wonderful achievement. After photography became a job, I'm so sick of photography that I was very scared to even touch the camera. Having done many things with photography before, it takes a lot of reasoning and convincing to take another picture these days.
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vince123123
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The moral of the story is to never turn your hobby into a job if you want to continue to have fun with your hobby.
Not too sure by this post you are facing some downs or just plain curious.
Well it really depends on you, and how much passion and biz sense you have there. Maybe i am wrong, but they work hand in hand togather. No doubt the biz part kills your passion if you got it wrong and everything seems like job. Somewhere along the road, you meet up with good clients and of coz bad ones. I read in magazines, that some successful photographers were once so broke, that they only had like $10 left in their bank account for months? And I have personally experienced that before, and man it really kills your passion. Like, what the hell am i doing all this for? Your parents and gf are like what the hell are you doing everyday? Why don't you just get a proper job? How can you take photography as a career? It really sucks when you are down and out, and everyone doesn't seem to support you.
Things will look much better if you inject the right attitude and of coz, good biz sense in. Don't forget, a biz is certain to face ups and downs. And if you are at your down, try talking to people around you. You be surprised at many who had been there and it certainly help you to make a better decision. As for the return's part, it really depends on how yourself. A deep pocket will certainly helps, but without a sound biz plan.. You are destined to lose whatever you have someday. If your biz is not doing well, or not hitting your expectations, talk to people before you throw in the towel. At the end of the day, after all the coffee and talk **** sessions, the important thing is to filter out the negative side and learn from the positive side.
Well it really depends on you, and how much passion and biz sense you have there. Maybe i am wrong, but they work hand in hand togather. No doubt the biz part kills your passion if you got it wrong and everything seems like job. Somewhere along the road, you meet up with good clients and of coz bad ones. I read in magazines, that some successful photographers were once so broke, that they only had like $10 left in their bank account for months? And I have personally experienced that before, and man it really kills your passion. Like, what the hell am i doing all this for? Your parents and gf are like what the hell are you doing everyday? Why don't you just get a proper job? How can you take photography as a career? It really sucks when you are down and out, and everyone doesn't seem to support you.
Things will look much better if you inject the right attitude and of coz, good biz sense in. Don't forget, a biz is certain to face ups and downs. And if you are at your down, try talking to people around you. You be surprised at many who had been there and it certainly help you to make a better decision. As for the return's part, it really depends on how yourself. A deep pocket will certainly helps, but without a sound biz plan.. You are destined to lose whatever you have someday. If your biz is not doing well, or not hitting your expectations, talk to people before you throw in the towel. At the end of the day, after all the coffee and talk **** sessions, the important thing is to filter out the negative side and learn from the positive side.
Besides the monetary gains, sometimes compliments from satisfied customers can go a long way to keep us going.
My 2 cents....
My 2 cents....
Technology has made many jobs obsolete.
...need no minor carpenters we have modern factories now, need no operators, our facilities are all fully automated. Need no film, we now have sensors. Need no printing, we view our photos only on our monitors.
Next thing you know, need no human, because we have AI.
It also helps to explain why that old time pro is behind the counter of that printing lab or at the store front of your favourite camera shop or giving lessons in schools and photo clubs. They can't make it? Most of them probably can shoot a decent photo that we would admire without any effort.
The only businesses that brings in good money are high tech devices that makes life easier (including snob products) or conventional produce like food and water. Anything in between is destined to be redundant.
History had proven so and it will continue to be so. Value is only perceived by its scacity.
When choosing your career, choose wisely. I had 2 ex-classmates whom are my old time photo buddies. One of them had thrown in his savings into photography. Lucky for him, he transited during mid-life from full time photogarphy to running a photo lab, after he realised that full time photographic business had too much ups and downs and he couldn't start a family because no one trusts him for bread and butter- evidently he had lost a number of potential life partners in the process. So he sold all that he had, took a bank loan and run a photo lab instead. Still related to photography but this time round, lower uncertainty because there're always people printing their photos though it seems lesser now.
The other ex-classmate took her money and spent it on studying medicine overseas. Now she's a doctor, earning 4x more than the first ex-classmate (as of now) and could afford the highest ranges of cameras and lenses- good to keep in touch because I don't think I'm buying those stuffs she had.
So choose wisely. A dream that is likely to fail tomorrow is a nightmare that you yourself drafted today. No passion or hobby can be actualized unless it is being paid for at the first place. Have money before pursuing any passion or hobby rather than to end up hating the very thing you loved.
Don't invest your life into career that others see or take up as a hobby, rather invest your life into something that won't hurt you and those around you for whatever reasons.
Cheers.
...need no minor carpenters we have modern factories now, need no operators, our facilities are all fully automated. Need no film, we now have sensors. Need no printing, we view our photos only on our monitors.
Next thing you know, need no human, because we have AI.
It also helps to explain why that old time pro is behind the counter of that printing lab or at the store front of your favourite camera shop or giving lessons in schools and photo clubs. They can't make it? Most of them probably can shoot a decent photo that we would admire without any effort.
The only businesses that brings in good money are high tech devices that makes life easier (including snob products) or conventional produce like food and water. Anything in between is destined to be redundant.
History had proven so and it will continue to be so. Value is only perceived by its scacity.
When choosing your career, choose wisely. I had 2 ex-classmates whom are my old time photo buddies. One of them had thrown in his savings into photography. Lucky for him, he transited during mid-life from full time photogarphy to running a photo lab, after he realised that full time photographic business had too much ups and downs and he couldn't start a family because no one trusts him for bread and butter- evidently he had lost a number of potential life partners in the process. So he sold all that he had, took a bank loan and run a photo lab instead. Still related to photography but this time round, lower uncertainty because there're always people printing their photos though it seems lesser now.
The other ex-classmate took her money and spent it on studying medicine overseas. Now she's a doctor, earning 4x more than the first ex-classmate (as of now) and could afford the highest ranges of cameras and lenses- good to keep in touch because I don't think I'm buying those stuffs she had.
So choose wisely. A dream that is likely to fail tomorrow is a nightmare that you yourself drafted today. No passion or hobby can be actualized unless it is being paid for at the first place. Have money before pursuing any passion or hobby rather than to end up hating the very thing you loved.
Don't invest your life into career that others see or take up as a hobby, rather invest your life into something that won't hurt you and those around you for whatever reasons.
Cheers.
Technology has made many jobs obsolete.
...need no minor carpenters we have modern factories now, need no operators, our facilities are all fully automated. Need no film, we now have sensors. Need no printing, we view our photos only on our monitors.
Next thing you know, need no human, because we have AI.
It also helps to explain why that old time pro is behind the counter of that printing lab or at the store front of your favourite camera shop or giving lessons in schools and photo clubs. They can't make it? Most of them probably can shoot a decent photo that we would admire without any effort.
The only businesses that brings in good money are high tech devices that makes life easier (including snob products) or conventional produce like food and water. Anything in between is destined to be redundant.
History had proven so and it will continue to be so. Value is only perceived by its scacity.
When choosing your career, choose wisely. I had 2 ex-classmates whom are my old time photo buddies. One of them had thrown in his savings into photography. Lucky for him, he transited during mid-life from full time photogarphy to running a photo lab, after he realised that full time photographic business had too much ups and downs and he couldn't start a family because no one trusts him for bread and butter- evidently he had lost a number of potential life partners in the process. So he sold all that he had, took a bank loan and run a photo lab instead. Still related to photography but this time round, lower uncertainty because there're always people printing their photos though it seems lesser now.
The other ex-classmate took her money and spent it on studying medicine overseas. Now she's a doctor, earning 4x more than the first ex-classmate (as of now) and could afford the highest ranges of cameras and lenses- good to keep in touch because I don't think I'm buying those stuffs she had.
So choose wisely. A dream that is likely to fail tomorrow is a nightmare that you yourself drafted today. No passion or hobby can be actualized unless it is being paid for at the first place. Have money before pursuing any passion or hobby rather than to end up hating the very thing you loved.
Don't invest your life into career that others see or take up as a hobby, rather invest your life into something that won't hurt you and those around you for whatever reasons.
Cheers.
I think that is a absolutely negative post here. Technology, like everything, is a double-edged sword. It really depends on how you percieve things. Fact is, there is money and career in everything there is out there. Wedding photography alone, is a $5 billion industry in Australia. It really all depends on your biz strategy and where they want to bring their biz to.
Well if you really think that AI will eventually takes over human life one day, then perhaps your doctor friend should also considered taking another path and stop splurging on cameras. Oh yes, people are actually willing to pay for things that are hand-made. Just look that Hermes Bikin bags and their waiting list.
He has forgotten no one has manufactured a machine to produce Creativity. And Creativity is not packaged in aluminium tins on supermarket shelves.
One day AI may replace us. But it can't produce images like us.
Well for me, after each wedding shots I feel sooo tired and swear that I would retire sooner or later. But after a week opening their images to do editing and their artbook, it never fail to inspire to keep on shooting. Finally, when they come back to collect their album with their smile on their faces, you know that you just need to hold on to the "job".
Just curious... can you quote the source you obtained the $5 billion figure? If it's true, I'll probably recommend my friend to migrate to Australia running photography and photo lab at the same time.
As for seeing a doctor, I still prefer a human doctor to gossip with during consultation but I don't think I mind Androids being programmed with precision by engineers and algorithms from ex-pro photogs to take wedding photos or covering events.
20 years ago, people perceive it as nonsensical that cars can be driven by itself; a few years ago, some Germans just came up with a car that does so even with other commuting vehicles around it and could even read traffic lights... Einstein's quote serves those critics well...
Technology has reduced the demands of medical support staff anyway and it will continue to be so.
I still enjoy and treasure the fact that on the same day of every other month, I know there's money banked into my account- even if I forgot it was pay day. And when I buy something, I never need to worry how much is the ROI on the purchase or whether it's worth it; neither do I need to worry that the camera body is now not as competitive as the current production line.
Just bits of my opinion though.
Sion said:
You mean the swinging type?
http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=281214 Just joking... take it easy. :bsmilie:
Have a nice day.
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