How much Nudity can CS accept?
- Thread starter Bobman
- Start date
- Status
Sorry to break the reality to you, the answer is probably none.Bobman said:
The problem lies not with the admin, but to how this society, the last bastion of "Victorian England" treats something as natural as a nude man or a nude woman.
However, this is not a unique thing here in Asia, but from my travels, aside from certain Muslim enclaves, Singapore is aboslutely the most conservative in terms of nudity.
At the end of the day, art or not art, is a very subjective thing. I said everything goes. What is art to me may be trash to you. Why should we care what you like ans what you like to post?
I do not believe this will ever change in Singapore. The people is very complacent, there is no tradition to fight for your rights, nor the spirits to do so. Sad.
I do not believe this will ever change in Singapore. The people is very complacent, there is no tradition to fight for your rights, nor the spirits to do so. Sad.
well if its any consolation, the last ngee ann photographic exhibition had nude prints but it was separated into an individual section where there were warnings.
I am totally unsure of the law here. but the CS servers are in Singapore so I suspect they have a responsibility to make sure that no such pictures exist to absolve them of any legal responsibility.
Nude photography workshops and painting sessions do exist. So its not an entirely conservative society. But they are just not actively advertised. which I feel is not wrong as it might attract the wrong crowd. Come to think of it, anyone knows if you can be incrimnated if you go to your local photoshop to print nude prints? Always wondered if those photographers develop their own or otherwise.. hmmmm
I also feel that its a matter of religious tolerance lah. Especially for the muslim community.
on a side note the Cheah comic last sunday was really funny abt the woman who got arrested for spying on his 'flasher' neighbour (a sarcastic joke on who's the pervert here, the one who spies on another in the privacy of his own home or the one who for whatever reason chooses to undress himself in his own home, rather than in the streets)
Guess its another issue of differing tolerance levels, in sg, I guess we always shoot for the lowest common denominator.
Cheers for a bright sunny Sunday!
I am totally unsure of the law here. but the CS servers are in Singapore so I suspect they have a responsibility to make sure that no such pictures exist to absolve them of any legal responsibility.
Nude photography workshops and painting sessions do exist. So its not an entirely conservative society. But they are just not actively advertised. which I feel is not wrong as it might attract the wrong crowd. Come to think of it, anyone knows if you can be incrimnated if you go to your local photoshop to print nude prints? Always wondered if those photographers develop their own or otherwise.. hmmmm
I also feel that its a matter of religious tolerance lah. Especially for the muslim community.
on a side note the Cheah comic last sunday was really funny abt the woman who got arrested for spying on his 'flasher' neighbour (a sarcastic joke on who's the pervert here, the one who spies on another in the privacy of his own home or the one who for whatever reason chooses to undress himself in his own home, rather than in the streets)
Guess its another issue of differing tolerance levels, in sg, I guess we always shoot for the lowest common denominator.
Cheers for a bright sunny Sunday!
changing social acceptance to such content is relatively easy (and inevitable). what is rather more insurmountable is whittling away the self censorship bred by the climate of fear that has been so masterfully programmed into us. most will take the blue pill and stay in kansas, my friends.....
KNIGHT ONG
Senior Member
Errr ,, IIRC this morning you also posted some similiar stuff but now I cant seem to find it ... :embrass: :dunno: :sweatsm:Bobman said:
Deadpoet said:
I am not sure if Singapore is the most conservative. Anyway that is not the issue.
The issue is Clubsnap.
The kind of images posted by digitalbuff are already shown in personal exhibitions. I had seen two exhibitions, one by a Frenchman residing in Singapore, and one by a Indian national also residing in Singapore. These exhibitions were in the Photographers Gallery. One of the CS members was the "subject" (sorry, could not think of a better description) of the nude study by the Indian national.
Such nudity are already common place in Singapore. You can buy 50 years of in Kinokuniya. and even Araki.
The issue is not Singapore (for this type of imagery). The issue is CS policies. I am sure CS has good reasons for their policies. Such as concern that there are "minors" in CS.
But perhaps, everynow and then, the admins may need to review the policies?
There is always a debate between nude and naked. Nude is often considered as an artform, while naked is frequently associated with pronography.
Technically speaking, nude and naked are both similar (bare skin). It all depend on your religion, culture and moral background. How, where and when you are brought up is very important.
In Singapore, nude is often more acceptable. If you read the Straits Times two Saturdays ago about the news of a salesman who bares all, they used the word "naked" in the title, which is always refer to obscenity.
Technically speaking, nude and naked are both similar (bare skin). It all depend on your religion, culture and moral background. How, where and when you are brought up is very important.
In Singapore, nude is often more acceptable. If you read the Straits Times two Saturdays ago about the news of a salesman who bares all, they used the word "naked" in the title, which is always refer to obscenity.
The issue is definitely not because of ClubSNAP admin for sure. Unknown to alot of people, all SG based internet website content are subjected to MDA (Media Development Authority in Singapore) guidelines.
The guidelines and regulations can be found over at
http://www.mda.gov.sg/wms.www/devnpolicies.aspx?sid=161
And if you look into this Internet Code of Practice.
http://www.mda.gov.sg/wms.file/mobj/mobj.497.internet_code.pdf
it has a section on Prohibited Material
I am sure there will be people who will dispute, argue, whats right and wrong. But like what I said in the other thread, we arent here to argue nor I am in the position to argue whats the borderline/grey area.
Of course nothing is impossible. Theres Neptune and exhibition places. Another good example is Movies. But I am sure you wont see a 9-10 years old kid going into a Nudity movie show w/o getting stopped. Also I am very sure (at this moment of time) that you wont see a nude/naked/whatever-definition photo (with whatever people call 2 or 3 dots) on newspapers/tv.
I can start asking every one of our 20,000 members to submit a copy of their ICs and ClubSNAP has done our due diligence in terms of ensuring our members are the right audience.
Or I can start creating private galleries where only certain people can visit? Or I should create 2 usergroups where one is above 18 and one is below 18 (or whatever the permissible age)? Maybe CS should write in to MDA for permission?
Also I mentioned this is a Singapore based website, we have members of different races, genders and of different cultural backgrounds. Have anyone spare a good thought for say, our female members or minors or even male members of different acceptance level ?
And factoring all those things into consideration, I can only say this. We started this website out of passion and interest. We (admins) knows the difference between art and porn. But can we be sure everyone is of the same wavelength? No. Can we ensure whats acceptable and not acceptable to everyone? We can only guess.
We CS admin always have to look at things from all angles. Its not so much of covering ourselves but also we do always consider for members too. The last thing we want is CS or CS members being monitored/reviewed by the relevant authorities for whatever reason that we can help to prevent and yet we didnt do our due diligence. Yes I know there are people who may say "hey we are grown ups", "let us decide our own fate", etc. I can only say to those people who have that kind of thought, please do spare a thought for other members who are also reading this forum and last but not least a good thought for us - CS admins who own this website and have legal responsibility on whatever content on our website content. I certainly hope this is not too much of a request.
Like what I said in the other thread, I am not here to argue nor I am in the position to argue whats the border/grey line. I can only say this, the very day MDA allows Naked/Nudity photos or pictures on Singapore based websites with no disputable grey areas, ClubSNAP will be one of the 1st to open up for such postings.
Like that can?
PS : I hope no1 thinks or believes CS admin is so kiasi/naive to such extent that we only see the word Nudity in the guideline , we stop all Nudity postings w/o thinking further or give more thoughts on it. :bsmilie:
The guidelines and regulations can be found over at
http://www.mda.gov.sg/wms.www/devnpolicies.aspx?sid=161
And if you look into this Internet Code of Practice.
http://www.mda.gov.sg/wms.file/mobj/mobj.497.internet_code.pdf
it has a section on Prohibited Material
I am sure there will be people who will dispute, argue, whats right and wrong. But like what I said in the other thread, we arent here to argue nor I am in the position to argue whats the borderline/grey area.
Of course nothing is impossible. Theres Neptune and exhibition places. Another good example is Movies. But I am sure you wont see a 9-10 years old kid going into a Nudity movie show w/o getting stopped. Also I am very sure (at this moment of time) that you wont see a nude/naked/whatever-definition photo (with whatever people call 2 or 3 dots) on newspapers/tv.
I can start asking every one of our 20,000 members to submit a copy of their ICs and ClubSNAP has done our due diligence in terms of ensuring our members are the right audience.
Or I can start creating private galleries where only certain people can visit? Or I should create 2 usergroups where one is above 18 and one is below 18 (or whatever the permissible age)? Maybe CS should write in to MDA for permission?
Also I mentioned this is a Singapore based website, we have members of different races, genders and of different cultural backgrounds. Have anyone spare a good thought for say, our female members or minors or even male members of different acceptance level ?
And factoring all those things into consideration, I can only say this. We started this website out of passion and interest. We (admins) knows the difference between art and porn. But can we be sure everyone is of the same wavelength? No. Can we ensure whats acceptable and not acceptable to everyone? We can only guess.
We CS admin always have to look at things from all angles. Its not so much of covering ourselves but also we do always consider for members too. The last thing we want is CS or CS members being monitored/reviewed by the relevant authorities for whatever reason that we can help to prevent and yet we didnt do our due diligence. Yes I know there are people who may say "hey we are grown ups", "let us decide our own fate", etc. I can only say to those people who have that kind of thought, please do spare a thought for other members who are also reading this forum and last but not least a good thought for us - CS admins who own this website and have legal responsibility on whatever content on our website content. I certainly hope this is not too much of a request.
Like what I said in the other thread, I am not here to argue nor I am in the position to argue whats the border/grey line. I can only say this, the very day MDA allows Naked/Nudity photos or pictures on Singapore based websites with no disputable grey areas, ClubSNAP will be one of the 1st to open up for such postings.
Like that can?
PS : I hope no1 thinks or believes CS admin is so kiasi/naive to such extent that we only see the word Nudity in the guideline , we stop all Nudity postings w/o thinking further or give more thoughts on it. :bsmilie:
Jason, as I said earlier, I am not blaming CS admin. It is actally easier to take the draconian approach, aboslutely no nudity, much easier to administrate.
The law here is the problem. The world is evolving and moving along. The net is available to everyone in Singapore, even with the attempts to censor, majority of the contents get through. Maybe, move the server?
The gvernment will never change the law by itself. Governments all over the world are the same. Laws only get changed if the people demand it. In some country, where democracy rules, it is easier to change, some more difficult.
If the people do not demand changes, governments have no problem maintaining the status quo, as long as the status quo.
I don't see any changes going to happen anytime soon. At least, not within my life time here in Singapore.
The law here is the problem. The world is evolving and moving along. The net is available to everyone in Singapore, even with the attempts to censor, majority of the contents get through. Maybe, move the server?
The gvernment will never change the law by itself. Governments all over the world are the same. Laws only get changed if the people demand it. In some country, where democracy rules, it is easier to change, some more difficult.
If the people do not demand changes, governments have no problem maintaining the status quo, as long as the status quo.
I don't see any changes going to happen anytime soon. At least, not within my life time here in Singapore.
- Status
Similar threads
