High contrast black & white film

[crispy12]

The reason why it's bad to have very high contrast negs is because film scanners have a limited dynamic range compared to film. They are a kind of digital sensor after all. Film has a very broad dynamic range however if you really push it too much, the scanner won't be able to pick it up and you will get blocked shadows and blown highlights. Some even say that it's better to use a low contrast lens if you only intend to scan negs, however that's a bit extreme for me!

A way to get around this is to use multi-exposure on your scanner (like HDR), however that increases the amount of time you take to scan negs (which is already time consuming). I save it for my favourite shots.

Many ways to do the same thing, pros and cons for all of them. Try them all out and choose your fav!

 

[crispy12]

Thanks bro. I will try the scanning option and shoot as per normal -- i didn't know making the negatives high contrast will make them difficult to scan! So thanks for that. I guess Fotohub is the only option if I wanna scan to TIFF format; I don't think JPEG is editable, not without losing information?

Fari

Oh I was talking about scanning them at home yourself. I have no idea what Fotohub uses, but the high end scanners should have no problem. Then again it depends on the lab tech scanning your film, or how the automated machine interprets your photo. I like to be in control 100% so I just do it myself.

Yeah if you want to do proper PP try to get the raw TIFF file. Probably might charge you a different rate too.

1. The shift down one stop is not linear across the light spectrum (like some people here seem to think).

Yeah this is true, it's what gives each film their characteristic look.

 

[lualua]

Hi Jonmanjiro,

For simplicity when expanding and contracting, my choice of emulsion/developer are always those with a straight curve. Yes, the shift may or may not be linear depending on your emulsion/developer combination. So there are no absolutes whether or not it is linear, or rather how far it is away from that 1 zone compared to actually performing a 1 zone expansion. What crispy12 said is absolutely true - different emulsions have their unique looks and it takes some experiment to find out your personal preference.

Last but not least, thanks for sharing. You open me up to an alternative viewpoint.

Two points.

1. The shift down one stop is not linear across the light spectrum (like some people here seem to think).

2. How can you possibly comment on my post processing when you don't know what I do? The fact is that I do very minimal post processing.

 

[sweat100]

My apologies if I sounded that you did heavy PP on your photos which I did not meant to. While N-1 maybe different across the spectrum of visible light. What I meant is that on the actual negative it will not appear as more contrasty. If one is to expose the same scene at ISO 800 and the other at ISO 400 and develop both at E.I. 400. After that scanning both with the same manual exposure value, one will appear darker than the other but not more contrast than the other. However the contrast shows up when one increase the exposure value or exposure in lightroom by +1.

Two points.

1. The shift down one stop is not linear across the light spectrum (like some people here seem to think).

2. How can you possibly comment on my post processing when you don't know what I do? The fact is that I do very minimal post processing.

 

[Royale With Cheese]

Some red filter shots:

 

[sfoto100]

wa the contrast is really high with the red filter..

 

[crispy12]

Best part is when you get nice fluffy clouds with clear blue sky, and a red filter! I bought a yellow, then orange, now feeling like getting red haha!

 

[FBA]

Best part is when you get nice fluffy clouds with clear blue sky, and a red filter! I bought a yellow, then orange, now feeling like getting red haha!

Wah! So hard to find color filters now -- was looking for a red filter for my 28mm Summicron but no shops in Peninsula, Funan or Sim Lim have stock!! Must pre-order or order online. Sigh....

 

[enivre]

Wah! So hard to find color filters now -- was looking for a red filter for my 28mm Summicron but no shops in Peninsula, Funan or Sim Lim have stock!! Must pre-order or order online. Sigh....

I used to just hold up a square filter (like a Lee filter) to the lens and just snap away. Not ideal but it works...

 

[oceanpriest]

Wah! So hard to find color filters now -- was looking for a red filter for my 28mm Summicron but no shops in Peninsula, Funan or Sim Lim have stock!! Must pre-order or order online. Sigh....

you can try hoya distributor, i always buy my filters there.

Seng Cheong Co.,LTD
Room #04-01,ICB Interprise House,116 Middle Road,Singapore 188972
Tel:65-6336-3244 Fax:65-633905875 sengcopl@singnet.com.sg

 

[virtualme78]

Good info! So much things to learn and experiment with film photography!

Hokay...alot of good advice here...let me put some sense into this:

note: in analog photography, there is a lot of rule-of-thumb advice,
ie. shortcuts that work for people but it doesn't mean that it will
work for everyone else. this is very different from digital photography
where photoshop instructions are very deterministic.

okay, back to your question: How do you get High Contrast photos.

1. Some films are naturally high contrast. eg. Fuji Acros 100.

2. Compared with old single coated lens, modern lenses are naturally higher in contrast.
eg. Nokton 35/f1.4 MC multi-coated is higher in contrast. Nokton 35/f1.4 SC single coated
is lower in contrast.

3. Underexposure + Over-Development = increase in contrast.

eg. Neopan 400 is supposed to be shot at iso 400, but you expose it at 1600 iso, (ie. 2 stops from 400 -> 800 -> 1600)
and you develop it as-if it were a 1600 film, this is known as pushing.

Increased in Agitation while developing will increase in contrast.

4. The printing part can be adjusted to increase in contrast. In the ole days,
you would take a negative and enlarge it to make a print. Depending on the paper
or the enlarger you can increase the contrast. eg. grade 1 to 5. where 5 is high contrast.

In the modern world, we now scan negatives with our scanner. Increase in contrast
can of course be done digitally through the scanning software or through Photoshop.

5. Other variables:
* Choice of Developer also affects the contrast, eg. Universal developer like PQ Developer results in higher contrasts.
* Your lighting and expsoure
* Filters increase contrasts.

here is an example:

Leica CL with canon 50/f1.9 with yellow filter.
film is tri-x 400, pushed one stop to 800 iso
and developed in t-max developer.

(how many higher contrast elements did you count in there ?)

 

[FBA]

you can try hoya distributor, i always buy my filters there.

Seng Cheong Co.,LTD
Room #04-01,ICB Interprise House,116 Middle Road,Singapore 188972
Tel:65-6336-3244 Fax:65-633905875 sengcopl@singnet.com.sg

Thanks bro! Will try them out.

 

[enivre]

Just be careful of overdoing it, high contrast negs also might mean that they contain less information to pull out down the line.

I'm a little rusty with all the B&W film development stuff, but I remember my preference was to have neutral negs which are easier to scan and then bump up contrasts in post (either in the darkroom or in lightroom).

But this method doesn't mean you can do without filters, no amount of post can get you the look of having a red filter on.

 

[nordleadx]

i prefer my neg to be in the middle also.

more details in the shadow and highlight when scan, later can burn to get the high contrast look.

Filter sometime makes the speed too slow, not very useful if u want everything to be sharp

 

[FBA]

Just be careful of overdoing it, high contrast negs also might mean that they contain less information to pull out down the line.

I'm a little rusty with all the B&W film development stuff, but I remember my preference was to have neutral negs which are easier to scan and then bump up contrasts in post (either in the darkroom or in lightroom).

But this method doesn't mean you can do without filters, no amount of post can get you the look of having a red filter on.

Mr International Street Photographer Eric Kim mentions one method on his blog:

1. Buy B&W 400ISO film and set film at 1600ISO
2. Then shoot underexposed by 2 stops

I'm not clear on the second point. Underxposed by 2 stops using EV compensation? Isn't it already underexposed by 2 stops by setting at 1600ISO?

Anyway, I initially thought that I could achieve that underexposure by using a 2 stop red filter instead of using EV compensation?

Any thoughts bros?

 

[FBA]

Just be careful of overdoing it, high contrast negs also might mean that they contain less information to pull out down the line.

I'm a little rusty with all the B&W film development stuff, but I remember my preference was to have neutral negs which are easier to scan and then bump up contrasts in post (either in the darkroom or in lightroom).

But this method doesn't mean you can do without filters, no amount of post can get you the look of having a red filter on.

Mr International Street Photographer Eric Kim mentions one method on his blog:

1. Buy B&W 400ISO film and set film at 1600ISO
2. Then shoot underexposed by 2 stops

I'm not clear on the second point. Underxposed by 2 stops using EV compensation? Isn't it already underexposed by 2 stops by setting at 1600ISO?

Anyway, I initially thought that I could achieve that underexposure by using a 2 stop red filter instead of using EV compensation?

Any thoughts bros?

 

[kgston]

But this method doesn't mean you can do without filters, no amount of post can get you the look of having a red filter on.

In that case shoot colour, then in digital, you can apply a BW filter and adjust the red channel or whatever channel you want to tweak

 

[enivre]

1. Buy B&W 400ISO film and set film at 1600ISO
2. Then shoot underexposed by 2 stops

I'm not clear on the second point. Underxposed by 2 stops using EV compensation? Isn't it already underexposed by 2 stops by setting at 1600ISO?

Anyway, I initially thought that I could achieve that underexposure by using a 2 stop red filter instead of using EV compensation?

I think he means after you set your camera to 1600ISO you are indeed underexposing by 2 stops, but you gain 2 stops worth of shutter speed. After which he pushes the developing to get back that 2 stops of underexposure.

While this does affect the contrast of the eventual negative, his focus here I believe is to get that extra 2 stops of shutter speed, not to get a more contrasty neg. Correct me if I've misinterpreted.

If you use a 2 stop red filter WITHOUT changing your ISO (or aperture), then you'll lose 2 stops of shutter speed. So yes you can indeed underexpose using the red filter, but it depends on what your focus is. Faster shutter or more contrasty neg?

In that case shoot colour, then in digital, you can apply a BW filter and adjust the red channel or whatever channel you want to tweak

Yup that's sometimes what I do, but I found that it's still not the same. When done digitally and pushed very hard, the pixels and gradients break up very quickly when adjusting channels, will look fine on screen but can't hold up to close scrutiny.

Here are two examples done digitally, adjusted the channels to get a black sky to contrast against the buildings. They look okay on screen but to be perfectly honest, up close they have some unsightly artifacting going on.

 

[kgston]

Icic.. interesting observations.. I think doing the colour film then convert to digital BW method is more suited for digital imaging... you will need high end scans to prevent artefacts from showing up when pushing the boundaries of the tones on films scans..

 

[artspraken]

Yes i think (1) and (2) are the same thing.