espn said:Hmmm care to find me some assignments?
Haha :bsmilie: I know what you mean!
I have already passed the infor to my brother and his wife - hopefully that'll get me off the hook! :blah:For Non-Pros only - How much have you made from Assignments
- Thread starter NorthernLights
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Haha :bsmilie: I know what you mean!
I have already passed the infor to my brother and his wife - hopefully that'll get me off the hook! :blah:yulee said:
Well at least u got the experience.
What I did after I shot 2 wedding recept I gave them the rolls of film
how come dun have the choice "spent 5k and earn $0" option?
ps: any lobang to for any pocket money? ;p
ps: any lobang to for any pocket money? ;p
Ah Haa.. Northernlights, I know you have a lot of lobang as I heard very often that you're offered photo assignments cos you have asked me personally on how much I charged for this or that kind of photo assignments previously...
So why still need to poll for an average CSers here made? Sorry I may be blinded, but I don't see the point of this poll, especially targetted at CS Nikonians Forum???
Frankly speaking, most of us here started photography as a hobby and thus in every hobby, there is inevitable expenditure and investment. However later when some have managed to perfect the skills, he may/may not take paid assignments, and this based very much on luck also as times are bad and photography have already been established with a big group of regulars professional photographers. That's is also one major reasons we see newbies & and many others (even pros) under-cut their regular price just to niche the market especially in the wedding business.
My personal point is, don't take it too serious... always remember your original interested in picking up photography. If you can cover some of your investments, be content, else treat it is as hobby, cos the trend of buying new lenses and the temption of upgrading to newer bodies is always there. PSST: D2X is coming... ;p
Remember one major thing, under-cut is not a solution to cover your investment :nono:. If you can under-cut today, tomorrow someone would be doing the same to you. And ultimately, you'd be blamed partly for killing the photography business as the market rate for each job have dropped, then nobody including yourself would find photography assignments a worth while to take.
This poll is useless! :thumbsd:
So why still need to poll for an average CSers here made? Sorry I may be blinded, but I don't see the point of this poll, especially targetted at CS Nikonians Forum???
Frankly speaking, most of us here started photography as a hobby and thus in every hobby, there is inevitable expenditure and investment. However later when some have managed to perfect the skills, he may/may not take paid assignments, and this based very much on luck also as times are bad and photography have already been established with a big group of regulars professional photographers. That's is also one major reasons we see newbies & and many others (even pros) under-cut their regular price just to niche the market especially in the wedding business.
My personal point is, don't take it too serious... always remember your original interested in picking up photography. If you can cover some of your investments, be content, else treat it is as hobby, cos the trend of buying new lenses and the temption of upgrading to newer bodies is always there. PSST: D2X is coming... ;p
Remember one major thing, under-cut is not a solution to cover your investment :nono:. If you can under-cut today, tomorrow someone would be doing the same to you. And ultimately, you'd be blamed partly for killing the photography business as the market rate for each job have dropped, then nobody including yourself would find photography assignments a worth while to take.
This poll is useless! :thumbsd:
sykestang said:Ah Haa.. Northernlights, I know you have a lot of lobang as I heard very often that you're offered photo assignments cos you have asked me personally on how much I charged for this or that kind of photo assignments previously...
So why still need to poll for an average CSers here made? Sorry I may be blinded, but I don't see the point of this poll, especially targetted at CS Nikonians Forum???
Frankly speaking, most of us here started photography as a hobby and thus in every hobby, there is inevitable expenditure and investment. However later when some have managed to perfect the skills, he may/may not take paid assignments, and this based very much on luck also as times are bad and photography have already been established with a big group of regulars professional photographers. That's is also one major reasons we see newbies & and many others (even pros) under-cut their regular price just to niche the market especially in the wedding business.
My personal point is, don't take it too serious... always remember your original interested in picking up photography. If you can cover some of your investments, be content, else treat it is as hobby, cos the trend of buying new lenses and the temption of upgrading to newer bodies is always there. PSST: D2X is coming... ;p
Remember one major thing, under-cut is not a solution to cover your investment :nono:. If you can under-cut today, tomorrow someone would be doing the same to you. And ultimately, you'd be blamed partly for killing the photography business as the market rate for each job have dropped, then nobody including yourself would find photography assignments a worth while to take.
This poll is useless! :thumbsd:
You were badly undercut? Poor thing.
erhmmm...the rate there is altoghter or indiv assignment???
2000 per assignment should be pro level liao rite haha...
2000 per assignment should be pro level liao rite haha...
many pretty girls pay professional studios to have their portfolios taken in a makeover session....BurgaFlippinMan said:
unless u talk about professional/freelance models, of course u have to pay them for shoots, but usually the professional photog engages them becos a client is paying THEM to shoot something.....
i shoot for free - weddings - did many many liao - bcos i treat them as hobbies. Eg, if u shoot models, macro, also no money right? unless stock loh.
but they do give me angbao - not much, about hundreds only. most of the time enjoyed the happiness on their face and seeing wedding couples are enjoyable that monetary cannot buy....
didn't develop for them, just burn them a CDROM with all photos.
actually i think hobby shld not tarnish with money loh. eg, if u play with cars, golf, horse riding, scuba diving, u dun get paid right? u treat them as hobbies to ENJOY mah!!!
why must hobbies link with $$$? :think:
but they do give me angbao - not much, about hundreds only. most of the time enjoyed the happiness on their face and seeing wedding couples are enjoyable that monetary cannot buy....
didn't develop for them, just burn them a CDROM with all photos.
actually i think hobby shld not tarnish with money loh. eg, if u play with cars, golf, horse riding, scuba diving, u dun get paid right? u treat them as hobbies to ENJOY mah!!!
why must hobbies link with $$$? :think:
espn said:Hmmm care to find me some assignments?
i have many many assignments all lined up until June 2005, see if you are interested....but all of them are FREE ones, they will only give angbao...
tho they are very enjoyable , sometimes due to work commitment and tiring, thinking of spliting the projects with someone. if u are ok, i put u as standby,ok?
i used to have a fren shoot together...but he said he had enough fun shooting weddings liao...so left me , alone in the "battle" now
Paul_Yeo said:
Thanks but no thanks, I'm not free
for FREE wedding/event shoots. But if you have paid ones, you can PM me Glad to know why it's so hard to hitch a wedding nowadays
very hard meh? ehehehespn said:Thanks but no thanks, I'm not free
Glad to know why it's so hard to hitch a wedding nowadays
both u and i get paid leh...
not say i give free hor. ;pjOhO said:very hard meh? eheheh
both u and i get paid leh...
Yeah.. but at what price you are charging?
At present market rate, do you think you can command more? :dunno:
I think the market has been very bad...
you know what I'm talking about. :devil:
Aiyoh~ compared to you PRO, I cannot be done la, must have standard then can charge, I oni talk for fun only, heehee. I where got so capable :embrass:jOhO said:very hard meh? eheheh
both u and i get paid leh...
You see me too up up.
of course i/we want to demand more. but (as you say) market is bad, let's talk economics, when demand is less than supply, wat happens?scanner said:
and also... it's all too subjective, when in fact, quality of photos is a big determinant.
one thing i usually say to pple who are intersted in engaging me to shoot their weddings, and their first question is 90% "HOW MUCH"?
i usually show them my portfolio, tell them, see if u like the photos first, if dun like, i take for u free also u dun want rite?? (put the ball in their court, if they say "free i take!" then u know wat type of customers they are)
then i tell them if they like my style, then we can talk about your requirements and budget.
actually.. i just turned down an assignment becos it was really too little for me to do so much. 2-day wedding event, extra photos etc etc.. i can do, but i won't feel comfortable. really nice people, very honest, enjoyed talking to them and showing them my work even tho i had to travel pretty far to meet them. but... line's gotta be drawn somewhere. already pple are saying that my rate is too low and it's spoiling the market. the same pple are saying the market is bad.
it's all back to economics i guess, with the subjective nature of quality throwing a spanner in the works.
oh well.. i guess this topic can be debated to death, and has been... ahha different pple have different reasons for shooting, for charging high or low.. hard to comment on how or why it's like dat sometimes. all i know is that i shoot when i'm comfortable with the price, and no matter wat i'll have to give 100% when i shoot. of course a part of it will be to spare a thought for the "spoil market" issue, but honestly, u cannot please everyone, and really, why should u?
I think its more than that, beside supplies and demand, its the market spoilers that kill the market, offering prices that is ridiculously low.jOhO said:
Once you started this trend, the whole market will most likely not be able to recover to the good old time when wedding/event photographers can command a much decent pay.
Yeah, but for wedding couples/clients who don't have trained eyes (there are quite a number of such people around), to them as long as they are in the picture (in focus), its a good picture. They don't care whether the skin tone is out or the color is not right, as long as it is rich and colorful, they say it is a good picture.jOhO said:
I know what I'm talking about, I'm a free lance photographer myself.
jOhO said:
I think it has been discussed regarding to market demands.
Hahaha...then you tell me why no? ;pjOhO said:of course a part of it will be to spare a thought for the "spoil market" issue, but honestly, u cannot please everyone, and really, why should u?
Anyway, I don't need to earn from this hobby, I can support it by other means.
Hope you have plentiful of businesses.
I think its more than that, beside supplies and demand, its the market spoilers that kill the market, offering prices that is ridiculously low.
Once you started this trend, the whole market will most likely not be able to recover to the good old time when wedding/event photographers can command a much decent pay.
well honestly, even if it were true, wat can we do? i mean out there many consumers know they can get 8 rolls for 500 bux (or the digital equivalent) and i've been countered by that statement when i put forward my charges countless times. just try to convince them (in a nice and politically correct way) that they are paying me more becos the quality of my shots are better. sometimes it's not true, i believe there are "better" photos out there that were charged less... "better" being in quotes becos it's all subjective anyway.
so now how? what should we do? we get a debate on "one person can't change to world" vs "if it doesn't start with you, who should it start with"? kind of thing. it's endless bro, i dunno about you, but if i wanted to get into politics, ecnonomics or philosophy i wouldn't have time to shoot photos... :bsmilie:
Yeah, but for wedding couples/clients who don't have trained eyes (there are quite a number of such people around), to them as long as they are in the picture (in focus), its a good picture. They don't care whether the skin tone is out or the color is not right, as long as it is rich and colorful, they say it is a good picture.
I know what I'm talking about, I'm a free lance photographer myself.
oh yes, an excellent point. honestly many can't tell the difference between those seasoned and proven pros, and those er.. not so seasoned and proven non-pros... sometimes something abstract or different from the pros could even come across as being a "bad" photo becos of the lack of appreciation or exposure to such shots. so we have an interesting scenario, photographers are spoiling the market by charging less and many pple dun appreciate the photos anyway so why should they pay more. these two go hand in hand that is why the "$500 for a wedding" is such a hit! it's not wrong really, customer wants that, provider willing to give. nothing so complicated about it rite? i guess there's that argument of reliability, back up equipment, and "goodwill" that the photographer won't run away, but honestly, how many pple worree about that, UNTIL it sway sway happens to them? and dun be surprised that $500 photogs have back up bodies too. i mean, how much can 2 F80's and 2 sb28's cost right? yeah sure a few couples have cursed poorly organised photographers becos of co.ck up situations, but wat's the point of crying over spilt milk? there are still tonnes of pple lining up behind to engaged a once co.ck up photog becos he's cheap. dun forget, we're in singapore! CHEAP is the first thing we learnt as kids when mother was bargaining for food at the market... not that i'm proud of it, but it's a fact.
Hahaha...then you tell me why no? ;p
Anyway, I don't need to earn from this hobby, I can support it by other means.
Hope you have plentiful of businesses.eheh i didn't say no, i just told them i can't lower my price anymore, so if u want i'm still available on that date. if someone else comes along and books me on that date, no probs, i'll just inform the original couple, no deposit, no nothing so i guess i won't hold the date for them.
eheh business is not bad, like you, i have a full time job which well.. i guess supports me enuff. but again, being in singapore, money no enuff!!! :bsmilie:
cheers to u!
Once you started this trend, the whole market will most likely not be able to recover to the good old time when wedding/event photographers can command a much decent pay.
well honestly, even if it were true, wat can we do? i mean out there many consumers know they can get 8 rolls for 500 bux (or the digital equivalent) and i've been countered by that statement when i put forward my charges countless times. just try to convince them (in a nice and politically correct way) that they are paying me more becos the quality of my shots are better. sometimes it's not true, i believe there are "better" photos out there that were charged less... "better" being in quotes becos it's all subjective anyway.
so now how? what should we do? we get a debate on "one person can't change to world" vs "if it doesn't start with you, who should it start with"? kind of thing. it's endless bro, i dunno about you, but if i wanted to get into politics, ecnonomics or philosophy i wouldn't have time to shoot photos... :bsmilie:
Yeah, but for wedding couples/clients who don't have trained eyes (there are quite a number of such people around), to them as long as they are in the picture (in focus), its a good picture. They don't care whether the skin tone is out or the color is not right, as long as it is rich and colorful, they say it is a good picture.
I know what I'm talking about, I'm a free lance photographer myself.
oh yes, an excellent point. honestly many can't tell the difference between those seasoned and proven pros, and those er.. not so seasoned and proven non-pros... sometimes something abstract or different from the pros could even come across as being a "bad" photo becos of the lack of appreciation or exposure to such shots. so we have an interesting scenario, photographers are spoiling the market by charging less and many pple dun appreciate the photos anyway so why should they pay more. these two go hand in hand that is why the "$500 for a wedding" is such a hit! it's not wrong really, customer wants that, provider willing to give. nothing so complicated about it rite? i guess there's that argument of reliability, back up equipment, and "goodwill" that the photographer won't run away, but honestly, how many pple worree about that, UNTIL it sway sway happens to them? and dun be surprised that $500 photogs have back up bodies too. i mean, how much can 2 F80's and 2 sb28's cost right? yeah sure a few couples have cursed poorly organised photographers becos of co.ck up situations, but wat's the point of crying over spilt milk? there are still tonnes of pple lining up behind to engaged a once co.ck up photog becos he's cheap. dun forget, we're in singapore! CHEAP is the first thing we learnt as kids when mother was bargaining for food at the market... not that i'm proud of it, but it's a fact.
Hahaha...then you tell me why no? ;p
Anyway, I don't need to earn from this hobby, I can support it by other means.
Hope you have plentiful of businesses.
eheh i didn't say no, i just told them i can't lower my price anymore, so if u want i'm still available on that date. if someone else comes along and books me on that date, no probs, i'll just inform the original couple, no deposit, no nothing so i guess i won't hold the date for them.eheh business is not bad, like you, i have a full time job which well.. i guess supports me enuff. but again, being in singapore, money no enuff!!! :bsmilie:
cheers to u!
yo tang!sykestang said:Ah Haa.. Northernlights, I know you have a lot of lobang as I heard very often that you're offered photo assignments cos you have asked me personally on how much I charged for this or that kind of photo assignments previously...
So why still need to poll for an average CSers here made? Sorry I may be blinded, but I don't see the point of this poll, especially targetted at CS Nikonians Forum???
Frankly speaking, most of us here started photography as a hobby and thus in every hobby, there is inevitable expenditure and investment. However later when some have managed to perfect the skills, he may/may not take paid assignments, and this based very much on luck also as times are bad and photography have already been established with a big group of regulars professional photographers. That's is also one major reasons we see newbies & and many others (even pros) under-cut their regular price just to niche the market especially in the wedding business.
My personal point is, don't take it too serious... always remember your original interested in picking up photography. If you can cover some of your investments, be content, else treat it is as hobby, cos the trend of buying new lenses and the temption of upgrading to newer bodies is always there. PSST: D2X is coming... ;p
Remember one major thing, under-cut is not a solution to cover your investment :nono:. If you can under-cut today, tomorrow someone would be doing the same to you. And ultimately, you'd be blamed partly for killing the photography business as the market rate for each job have dropped, then nobody including yourself would find photography assignments a worth while to take.
This poll is useless! :thumbsd:
i'm sure u (and we all actually!) know that these are your personal opinions, and i'm sure u're a nice person enuff not to force it upon anyone. anyway just to respond to your opinions:
sometimes a photographer is NOT undercutting. that is just his stated price. i started off cheap too, i dunno about you, was ur first paid shoot for $1000 (or more?) if it was, then good for you, but i must say not many pple have that good fortune.
another point u mentioned was "blame". i think that's a little too harsh. every where in the world, for almost every thing that can be bought with money, there is an "undercutter".
i remember a conversation that if someone approached you for a wedding shoot under a certain amt, you would say no. and that is entirely up to you and everyone should respect that. i also think that respect is required for someone who's bottom line amt is say... $500. i wouldn't say that he is wrong, would you? it's just a matter of differing thresholds of acceptance on wat is worthwhile for their time, together with market mechanics, and the subjective topic of photo quality. honestly, as i've discussed above in my previous posts, having great photos does not necessarily mean u can demand more. there are PLENTY of couples that will not be able to tell which photos are better, a $2000 pro, or a $800 freelancer. (i know becos i'm THAT $800 freelancer)
anyway back to your above post, i'm slightly confused. on one hand u say dun take it serious, just shoot, u even mentioned pros undercutting becos of bad market, but then u start blaming a person that does the undercutting? wat gives?
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