Indeed if we have 2 sellers, both claimed condition 9, one with good photo displayed, another without or with poor quality photo, I will be more keen to buy or bid higher on the seller item with good item photos, as it has less chance of a waste trip.shyanyap said:Well it problem for the seller who is trying to sell..
For buyers, if we cannot judge the condition of the items from the photo, then try not to buy from him or her....:bsmilie:
False information in BnS
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FZ5owner, u r missing my point. using your example, let's say the fungus is above the lockup mirror and it didn't occur to the seller to check all the way internally. would u call that fraud? everyone has their own standards and by no means the same. at the end of the day, what the sellers say is one thing, it is for the buyer to do his/her own due dillegence.
maestrolik
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panzerpunk said:
Misrepresentation of facts maybe......:bsmilie: okie back to work, just destressing down here......:sweat:
V
vince123123
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The seller should also do their own checks before when considering what number to put as the condition and not suka suka put anything they like.
I think that fungus in the lens is pretty much quite obvious to most people.
I think that fungus in the lens is pretty much quite obvious to most people.
pokiemon said:
panzerpunk
New Member
I think the topic has changed to "Arguing for the sake of Argument in ClubSnap."
You have a chance to inspect/view the item before you buy, so what's the fuss?
"Mint" description given by seller after usage is acceptable to me.
If he has taken good care of the item.
Actually it is a matter of price and buyer's desire for the item.
e.g. if a Luftwaffe Leica M was described as "Mint"
and actually it had a 3 mm scratch at the bottom plate.
But seller is selling it to me for $50. :bsmilie:
Do you think I mind that it was described as "Mint" even though it had a scratch?
Who cares at this price and for this item?
"Mint" description given by seller after usage is acceptable to me.
If he has taken good care of the item.
Actually it is a matter of price and buyer's desire for the item.
e.g. if a Luftwaffe Leica M was described as "Mint"
and actually it had a 3 mm scratch at the bottom plate.
But seller is selling it to me for $50. :bsmilie:
Do you think I mind that it was described as "Mint" even though it had a scratch?
Who cares at this price and for this item?
CS provides guidelines but does not impose them as rules, as far as rating the condition of an item for sale goes.
All the measures (iTrader, guidelines etc) does not replace the final gate, which is the common sense of both buyer and seller.
As a buyer, take the claims of the seller with a pinch of salt, unless you know the seller very well and absolutely trust every word the seller puts on his/her ads. Always querry via PM/email/phone call before committing to a deal and spend time to meet up. Ask specific questions and request for pictures.
Right now we are not prepared to take any actions against people who claims "MINT" condition for a 10-year old beaten up film SLR with a missing film rewind crank.
All the measures (iTrader, guidelines etc) does not replace the final gate, which is the common sense of both buyer and seller.
As a buyer, take the claims of the seller with a pinch of salt, unless you know the seller very well and absolutely trust every word the seller puts on his/her ads. Always querry via PM/email/phone call before committing to a deal and spend time to meet up. Ask specific questions and request for pictures.
Right now we are not prepared to take any actions against people who claims "MINT" condition for a 10-year old beaten up film SLR with a missing film rewind crank.
I have had the chance to buy online even before the invention of eBay i.e. circa 1994.
Over the years, the accepted practice at least in the US goes something like this:
Mint -New or new old-stock items that have never been owned and could then, be mint.
10 (or 10+!) - items which have been owned , are in exceptional condition ... and could indeed pass for mint.
The rule seems to surround the question of ownership. So, as long as an item is owned... it can never be mint. At best, 10+.
For new items that are new old-stock and in non-mint condition... the term used is "shop-worn" or "shop-soiled".
On the other extreme, among local sellers there are people who sell pre-owned items while indeed mint, are priced 10% below new. In some instances... that difference is effectively the cost of transport to go meet the seller!!
Again, the rule-of-thumb is that any item that is pre-owned and in reasonably good condition should be priced at least 30% less than new to be a reasonable deal.
Only in Singapore, I make an exception at 20% because really, some of the resale pricing really borders on the ridiculous.
KEH in the US has a fairly good grading policy, and have earned themselves a reputation for better-than-expected as they grade conservatively.
But as this shows , it's still all very subjective. The best is for the buyer to determine what standards he/she can live with, ask the relevant questions ... and ultimately caveat emptor. Sometimes if it sounds to be too good a deal, it really is.
Over the years, the accepted practice at least in the US goes something like this:
Mint -New or new old-stock items that have never been owned and could then, be mint.
10 (or 10+!) - items which have been owned , are in exceptional condition ... and could indeed pass for mint.
The rule seems to surround the question of ownership. So, as long as an item is owned... it can never be mint. At best, 10+.
For new items that are new old-stock and in non-mint condition... the term used is "shop-worn" or "shop-soiled".
On the other extreme, among local sellers there are people who sell pre-owned items while indeed mint, are priced 10% below new. In some instances... that difference is effectively the cost of transport to go meet the seller!!
Again, the rule-of-thumb is that any item that is pre-owned and in reasonably good condition should be priced at least 30% less than new to be a reasonable deal.
Only in Singapore, I make an exception at 20% because really, some of the resale pricing really borders on the ridiculous.
KEH in the US has a fairly good grading policy, and have earned themselves a reputation for better-than-expected as they grade conservatively.
But as this shows , it's still all very subjective. The best is for the buyer to determine what standards he/she can live with, ask the relevant questions ... and ultimately caveat emptor. Sometimes if it sounds to be too good a deal, it really is.
"But as this shows , it's still all very subjective. The best is for the buyer to determine what standards he/she can live with, ask the relevant questions ... and ultimately caveat emptor. Sometimes if it sounds to be too good a deal, it really is."
I meant, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is ...
ultimately you get what you pay for.
I meant, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is ...
ultimately you get what you pay for.
Duh. I thought this forum had an "edit button" so I didn't check it as thoroughly as I should have before posting.
correction:
"On the other extreme, among local sellers there are people who sell pre-owned items while indeed 10+, are priced 10% below new. In some instances... that difference is effectively the cost of transport to go meet the seller!!"
correction:
"On the other extreme, among local sellers there are people who sell pre-owned items while indeed 10+, are priced 10% below new. In some instances... that difference is effectively the cost of transport to go meet the seller!!"
Here in clubsnap? I have to agree! I see sellers asking for more bids when the reserved price is met, the BNP (which I have to assume is 'buy-now-price') is met, and ends up selling at a price higher than BNP. Amongst a host of other issues I had raised before. But that's a different story. It sounds ridiculous that Mods have to bear the responsibility of the subjective evaluation of the conditions of the items sold here. Impracticality of the mammoth task notwithstanding, how are the mods able to even make a judgement for items they can't see and touch for themselves?pokiemon said:
manila gorila
Member
if you like it, take it. if you don't like it, leave it! it's that simple
what's with all the cursing and swearing and complaining..
what's with all the cursing and swearing and complaining..
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