F200EXR vs Canon S90


Not surprised. Because such statement was made in the 60s when 35mm hoped to replace the large format; in the 90s when digital hoped to replace 35mm; perhaps while approaching 2020, what is the chance that PnS (of course not F200EXR) will replace DSLR - a dream?

By and large at the moment, the gap with the better DSLR is still significant, particularly with the premium lenses. However, for laymen shooting, some DSLRs seem to be giving way to PnS in dpreview provided you have not esteemed yourself too highly than those guys there. Need to avoid bringing out specific model now because some have taken offence if to reflect on a few comments here. Or, you can also refer to other reviews if you think dpreview is not objective enough. Can we be possibly objective if to insist reviews are wrong, our comments and hearsay are correct?

I hesitated awhile whether to touch on sensor size because of one potentially common misconception but let me make the mistake and hear out from the rest.
For a sensor resolution of 10Mp
is 35mm 3.5x sharper than 4/3", 35mm (864sqmm) vs 4/3" (243qmm) ?
is 4/3” 5.5x sharper than 1/1.7", 4/3” (243sqmm) vs 1/1.7" (44sqmm) ?

The answer may lie with larger sensors having the benefit larger pixels but not necessary larger number of pixels. The larger pixels bring out the potential of higher sensitivity, better signal to noise ratio and wider dynamic range but that has nothing to do with higher resolution which many would have wanted. For a given amount of background noise, larger pixel can tolerate higher signal to noise ratio and thus less noisy, particularly at lower level of photon influx. They can detect much lower and higher influx of photons over a given exposure time (at the same aperture) to enhance the sensitivity. They also have capacity of a greater volume of photon before being saturated, hence better discrimination in terms of wider dynamic range. Meaning to say, for the same resolution, it is possible for PnS to produce pictures comparable to DSLR only if the constraints in light conditions from its smaller sensor are well addressed by technologies and in an experienced hand (maybe you want to try confidently singling out the DSLR and PNS shots above).

As for optics, the quality in smaller lenses has improved substantially in recent year if you make some identical picture comparison. Also, it seems the difference between fixed and zoom lenses is less significant in digital cameras in many reviews unlike the 35mm days. Or is it the top premium optics is of little use in current digital cameras because the excellent optical resolution cannot be fully exploited by current meager pixel counts. In fact, my take is if to go beyond 20Mp and into 100Mp, when compared to the impractical bulk of DSLR becoming off-bit in the generations to come, the potential in funding the high res pixel count pursuit is more probable with PnS cost spreading mass-production, given its awaiting enormous market just like what the Korean did with LCDs in the early millennium.

So, if technology increasingly addresses the issue of sensitivity, noise, dynamic range, better and more compact optics, will the era of large lens, large aperture and large sensor eventually belongs to the minority, just like the existing large format cameras. Have technologies not proven to bring to the common folks computers, IT, cellphones etc which were once only for the rich now not just at a much affordable price, but with a far greater capabilities – the coming reality to cameras?

Perhaps, many big brands might be unfairly trying for as long as possible to sustain a hefty profit from their established empire of pricey DSLR and peripherals, even making many to think that any PnS having DSLR benefits have be expensive. Can anybody rule out there is no deliberate stifling of such technological potentials in PnS because of competitively low-profit margin of mass-produced PnS. Who knows Samsung is trying to break these unfair practices with its EX-1 following the humble attempt by F200EXR and I hope many more to come.

Or have some us been permanently cropped out by the big brands to believe the competitively priced PnS can never beat DSLR and their more profitable DSLR will never be overtaken by PnS?

Don't get so defensive to the slightest perceived criticism of the F200, nobody is saying that it is bad or anything.

Anyway, if Fuji can make a PnS with a 1/1.7" that's as good as most DSLR, then their 35mm DSLR should crush the best from Nikon & Canon...
 

Well enuff said. Cheers.

Don't get so defensive to the slightest perceived criticism of the F200, nobody is saying that it is bad or anything.

Anyway, if Fuji can make a PnS with a 1/1.7" that's as good as most DSLR, then their 35mm DSLR should crush the best from Nikon & Canon...
 

Maybe objective results are better than words. Or those dpReview testers must have made mistake when it comes to S90 and F200EXR. Is this Fujifilm closer to S90 or DSLR if to look at these comparison in JPEG?

... quite unbelievable to see how branding, advers and crowd comments can rank up a camera rated so differently in the lab


S90resolution.jpg


F200EXRresolution.jpg


DSLRresolution.jpg
 

After reading from 1-5 in this thread with long and short text, good words vs nice words, charts and photos ......But end of my hours here....stupid me.... have not conclude which one to buy F70EXR, F200EXR, S90 :dunno::sweat:
 

After reading from 1-5 in this thread with long and short text, good words vs nice words, charts and photos ......But end of my hours here....stupid me.... have not conclude which one to buy F70EXR, F200EXR, S90 :dunno::sweat:

Don't worry, F200EXR is hard to get now because F300EXR is out.
F70EXR is rare but there are lots of F72EXR at Gain City.
Fuji camera is still cheaper than S90 and have more optical zoom.
There are no point to pay a hundred $$$ more for such minor pixels difference in image and less optical zoom.
 

After reading from 1-5 in this thread with long and short text, good words vs nice words, charts and photos ......But end of my hours here....stupid me.... have not conclude which one to buy F70EXR, F200EXR, S90 :dunno::sweat:

To confuse you further, Lumix just launched LX5 with high dynamic range & low noise and fast F2 lens:D

I think they all can take excellent picture, so if you're not sure, just go for the most affordable one; particularly if you're unlikely to use manual control.
 

Don't worry, F200EXR is hard to get now because F300EXR is out.
F70EXR is rare but there are lots of F72EXR at Gain City.
Fuji camera is still cheaper than S90 and have more optical zoom.
There are no point to pay a hundred $$$ more for such minor pixels difference in image and less optical zoom.

Quality and after sales service that matter, Canon is my choice S90 Perfect.
 

After reading from 1-5 in this thread with long and short text, good words vs nice words, charts and photos ......But end of my hours here....stupid me.... have not conclude which one to buy F70EXR, F200EXR, S90 :dunno::sweat:

if you don't really into playing around with other mode other than "Auto" mode then it does not matter which camera, just try out all the camera in "Auto" mode and see which produce better picture, and also consider the price (if you are loaded, then buy the most expensive one :) )
 

how come no one pointed this important fact out?

Im a s90 user. When i came across the exr at the IT show i went to test it. To my not-unfounded surprise, i could immediately see that the exr LCD registers grainy images. That is not to say that the EXR dont produce good pics, but the LCD shows very grainy and noisy images. What gives? Im a avid canon fan and i must say the comparisons done in this thread shows that the IQ of both cameras are similar, albiet color contrasts of the s90 being slightly duller.

However what matters to me most is how i see my images turn out the moment i take them. For the s90, a lot of my friends are super impressed by the LCD quality and how clear the images are the moment i take them. Through that one time experience i had with the EXR, im glad i didnt take that route though price-wise it is really competitive for the quality. For me the LCD at the back defines the images taken. But thats just me and i still feel weird after 5pages of debate im the first one to point it out.

Hope this helps.

;p
 

The Fuji LCD is not of good quality, but when you view it in your PC. It tells a different story :D
Shooting in auto mode won't produce good pictures. You must shoot in EXR auto.
 

phew... happen to stumble upon this thread.

whatever was said and said, it will only still result in one thing - it is just a camera. The winner is the manufacturer who make profits from this thing, we are only just consumers who paid money for toys to play with.:sweat:
 

how come no one pointed this important fact out?

Im a s90 user. When i came across the exr at the IT show i went to test it. To my not-unfounded surprise, i could immediately see that the exr LCD registers grainy images. That is not to say that the EXR dont produce good pics, but the LCD shows very grainy and noisy images. What gives? Im a avid canon fan and i must say the comparisons done in this thread shows that the IQ of both cameras are similar, albiet color contrasts of the s90 being slightly duller.

However what matters to me most is how i see my images turn out the moment i take them. For the s90, a lot of my friends are super impressed by the LCD quality and how clear the images are the moment i take them. Through that one time experience i had with the EXR, im glad i didnt take that route though price-wise it is really competitive for the quality. For me the LCD at the back defines the images taken. But thats just me and i still feel weird after 5pages of debate im the first one to point it out.

Hope this helps.

;p

are you saying you only shoot to see it on the LCD which is only 3" and that will win the day for you ??...
 

After all the exchanges here whether that camera really rocks or sucks might be quite clear.

The manufacturer making supernormal profit must be laughing all the way to the bank when making a camera with IQ not typical of its brand by resorting to blatant noise filtering, chippo optics and almost gone unnoticed.

phew... happen to stumble upon this thread.

whatever was said and said, it will only still result in one thing - it is just a camera. The winner is the manufacturer who make profits from this thing, we are only just consumers who paid money for toys to play with.:sweat:
 

how come no one pointed this important fact out?

Im a s90 user. When i came across the exr at the IT show i went to test it. To my not-unfounded surprise, i could immediately see that the exr LCD registers grainy images. That is not to say that the EXR dont produce good pics, but the LCD shows very grainy and noisy images. What gives? Im a avid canon fan and i must say the comparisons done in this thread shows that the IQ of both cameras are similar, albiet color contrasts of the s90 being slightly duller.

However what matters to me most is how i see my images turn out the moment i take them. For the s90, a lot of my friends are super impressed by the LCD quality and how clear the images are the moment i take them. Through that one time experience i had with the EXR, im glad i didnt take that route though price-wise it is really competitive for the quality. For me the LCD at the back defines the images taken. But thats just me and i still feel weird after 5pages of debate im the first one to point it out.

Hope this helps.

;p

I'm not surprised:
1. the f/2.0 lens of the S90 allows 2.75x the light of the F200EXR's f/3.3 lens.
For a scene with the F200EXR with f/3.3 at ISO1600, you can shoot the same scene with f/2.0 at about ISO 640 on the S90 (S90 has ISO intervals 1/3 stop apart).

2. on the dpreview website, while the vertical/horizontal LPH for the F200EXR is higher than the S90, it comes with Moire artifacts. most camera manufacturers seem to reduce these with higher softening in-camera, at the expense of LPH. i.e. to get rid of irritating Moire artifacts, you can apply softening, but lose out on the LPH.

3. On the website: http://www.dkamera.de/testbericht/fujifilm-finepix-f200exr/bildqualitaet.html, the comparison should be done with night mode "Nacht" is the German word for "night" (ISO noise is more impt during nighttime vs daytime--in the daytime you are mostly shooting at ISO100-400 anyways). Set the ISO to 800 and decide for yourself if the F200EXR wins or the S90 wins:
4879067356_87d04ba9c2_b.jpg
 

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After reading thru 5 pages of arguments, here is what I could infer:
1 Between the 2 cams, they are more or less neck-to-neck.
2 Choosing either one will not be wrong in any way - it is a matter of personal preference.
3 If youre pocket matters, the Fuji is the one that wins.

BTW, the F200 is now at the end of the road, that is to say, gonna to be replaced by the F300. So, for the Fuji fans out there, dun wait too long before the F200 is sold out.

The F300 is a very different cam altogether, in terms of zoom range, in terms of sensor size.
 

After all the exchanges here whether that camera really rocks or sucks might be quite clear.

The manufacturer making supernormal profit must be laughing all the way to the bank when making a camera with IQ not typical of its brand by resorting to blatant noise filtering, chippo optics and almost gone unnoticed.

.... and the truth is most people uses them on weekends, public holidays etc..:sweat:
 

Will it be a better if both pictures are compare with same settings or at least the same ISO?

Maybe be better but the fact that S90 uses ISO80 indoors is impressive already. The Auto select of the Fuji chooses iso400 and with that, the quality is already impacted to begin with. Just my thoughts...
 

After reading thru 5 pages of arguments, here is what I could infer:
1 Between the 2 cams, they are more or less neck-to-neck.
2 Choosing either one will not be wrong in any way - it is a matter of personal preference.
3 If youre pocket matters, the Fuji is the one that wins.

BTW, the F200 is now at the end of the road, that is to say, gonna to be replaced by the F300. So, for the Fuji fans out there, dun wait too long before the F200 is sold out.

The F300 is a very different cam altogether, in terms of zoom range, in terms of sensor size.

:thumbsup:

i agree mostly with this.

i recommended the F200EXR to a friend who wanted a good compact at an affordable price and after research and a few trials, he actually bought one.

then when it came to my turn to buy one, i chose between the LX3 and S90 - subsequently bought the S90.

i bought the S90 over the F200EXR and LX3 for the various functions and specs that i felt were more suited to my needs. not based on which one is better, especially in aspects where only 100% crops can tell them apart.
 

I try to chip in here.
I don't have Fuji, but my buddies use LX3 and I have S90, G10 and GF1.

I bought an S90 for my wife as she "borrows" my Canon G10 way too often.

The first thing I noticed and many people overlook is color.
I was surprised the color on the S90 looked very different than my G10. It was way nicer, not just saturation, but brightness. Night shots seemed to "glow" in a pleasant way.
Also, the S90 is sharper than the G10. But has barrel distortion (smaller lens)

I got rid of my G10 very soon (but G10 macro is way better). I now use a Panasonic GF1. The image quality is better for a bigger sensor - can't really explain why just looks better. Color wise, default panasonics are "cool" - I find myself adjusting the color/WB all the time.
S90 colours are warm and bright - no saturation needed at all.

Note: S90 autoISO is overdoing stuff - likes to jump to ISO800 when it's not necessary. So I override the ISO to 400 too often - it's a pain.

You can't really post pictures of small sensor and ask which is taken by DSLR. THe right way to do it is to take 2 pictures of same subject - place them side by side for comparison.

These days, I fall asleep whenever I browse pictures I have taken using small sensors. I seem to enjoy pictures taken with larger sensors - just can't explain.

Finally, with LX3, Canon G10 and my GF1, I find myself adjusting the in camera color setting all the time (unless u shoot raw).

S90 Colors are just perfect. But I fight with the high AutoISO800 all the time.

Sorry can't comment on Fuji.
 

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