F200EXR vs Canon S90


you will never get a perfect camera, there will always a better one next year for the sake of economy.

be it f200 or s90, it is not that important, it is do u really need it ? for me pns is a toy play..
 

you will never get a perfect camera, there will always a better one next year for the sake of economy.

be it f200 or s90, it is not that important, it is do u really need it ? for me pns is a toy play..

Wow we finally found an expert who knows so much about camera that PnS are regarded mere toys.

Perhaps, you may want to comment how different are the identical shots in the comparison here:

F200EXR vs Canon EOS 500D 18mm-55mm to be selected in the right entry
http://www.dkamera.de/testbericht/fujifilm-finepix-f200exr/bildqualitaet.html

F200EXR vs Nikon D90 18mm-105mm to be selected in the right entry
http://www.dkamera.de/testbericht/fujifilm-finepix-f200exr/bildqualitaet.html
 

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you will never get a perfect camera, there will always a better one next year for the sake of economy.

be it f200 or s90, it is not that important, it is do u really need it ? for me pns is a toy play..

Are you able to tell which of these shots is taken by a PnS camera?

DSCF0360.jpg


DSCF0373.jpg


DSCF0307.jpg


SDC10032.jpg
 

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you will never get a perfect camera, there will always a better one next year for the sake of economy.

be it f200 or s90, it is not that important, it is do u really need it ? for me pns is a toy play..

Which of these is clearly not from a PnS camera?

DSCF0291.jpg


DSCF0297.jpg


DSCF0266.jpg


SDC10040.jpg
 

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you will never get a perfect camera, there will always a better one next year for the sake of economy.

be it f200 or s90, it is not that important, it is do u really need it ? for me pns is a toy play..

And which is your bet that all these shots are taken by PnS camera?

DSCF0304.jpg


DSCF0284.jpg


DSCF0279.jpg


SDC10050.jpg
 

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And which is your bet that all these shots are taken by PnS camera?

DSCF0304.jpg


DSCF0284.jpg


DSCF0279.jpg

Really nice pics from your F200EXR :)
Another proof that it is the photog behind the cam that matters
 

I am still using my faithful F30, almost 4 years old. Frankly speaking, no PnS can compare for its ISO 800/1600 shots at the moment. However, ISO is just one of the many factors to consider.

However, when I buy a camera, I look at who is using it, what is the overall package, what type of photos the person takes with it, the IQ of the output, the colour output, the flash and the IS capability before I decide which is good for me.

1. Lens Range - Not much difference between the 2, consider that both lens reach are too similar for non-critical application. This is for me and I will just walk nearer. A slight win on F200EXR.

2. Lens Aperture - More than 1 stop faster on the S90 on the wide side. Perhaps on the tele end both are similar. Win on S90.

3. Image Stabiliser - Yet to see a good implementation on Fujifilm's compacts. On the contrary, Canon's compacts do decently well. Win on S90 for that 1 to 2 stops advantage.

4. IQ Output - F200EXR has the upper edge at same ISO in well lighted pictures. But personally I have low opinion of the decision to retain details while having those noise on the pictures that can destroy the pictures for the F200EXR. This is a PnS.

5. Colour Output - This is subjective, but so far I do not like F30's colour. I still prefer Canon's colour. Out of camera JPEG from F200 seems to be a little on the pale side, or is it me?

6. Flash - With friends, I would choose S90 for its warm colour. Colour is more pushy with default parameters? Again, this is very subjective, as in who wants to see what more. anglim showed that nature pictures can be shown as "calm" using a F200EXR. Similarly, using a S90 may result in more "warm" colours portray as "passion". Fujifilm cameras are typically more neutral in colour, while Nikon is known to be more warm, more so that Canon.

7. Price - Need more say?


In my opinion, the better implemented IS plus wider aperture on the S90 will compensate for the capable high ISO of F200EXR and gives the edge over the F200EXR, which is itself an excellent choice. Do note that high ISO on F200EXR equals to lower DR. ISO 1600 on F200EXR compared to ISO 400 on S90 is similar. True that the F200EXR excels in low light, but well lighted pictures. Unless I post process photos of my friends significantly, I would take S90 over F200EXR any time.

F200EXR samples

http://s3.amazonaws.com/masters.galleries.dpreview.com/111652.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=14Y3MT0G2J4Y72K3ZXR2&Expires=1276869755&Signature=BfTe0BwuzM3oeeKRhKxMJYhjI04%3d

http://s3.amazonaws.com/masters.gal...869755&Signature=qQH4WvR7zxviow0zT8ccWDkEQKA=
 

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1. Lens Range - Not much difference between the 2, consider that both lens reach are too similar for non-critical application. This is for me and I will just walk nearer. A slight win on F200EXR.
Is 105mm vs 140mm insignificant when standing unprotected before the lion vs behind the fence?

2. Lens Aperture - More than 1 stop faster on the S90 on the wide side. Perhaps on the tele end both are similar. Win on S90.
Isn't faster aperture most needed at longer optical length when S90 drops to F4.9 vs faster than F4 in F200EXR at 105mm?
F200EXR: 6.4mm - 32mm / F3.3 - F5.1 equiv 28mm - 140mm
S90: 6 mm - 22.5 mm / F2.0 - F4.9 equiv 28mm - 105mm


3. Image Stabiliser - Yet to see a good implementation on Fujifilm's compacts. On the contrary, Canon's compacts do decently well. Win on S90 for that 1 to 2 stops advantage.
Is there objective comparison other than your opinion here?

4. IQ Output - F200EXR has the upper edge at same ISO in well lighted pictures. But personally I have low opinion of the decision to retain details while having those noise on the pictures that can destroy the pictures for the F200EXR. This is a PnS.
Is this consistence with the objective comparison of identical pictures in earlier posts?

5. Colour Output - This is subjective, but so far I do not like F30's colour. I still prefer Canon's colour. Out of camera JPEG from F200 seems to be a little on the pale side, or is it me?
Can poorer IQ of S90 be made good in RAW?

6. Flash - With friends, I would choose S90 for its warm colour. Colour is more pushy with default parameters? Again, this is very subjective, as in who wants to see what more. anglim showed that nature pictures can be shown as "calm" using a F200EXR. Similarly, using a S90 may result in more "warm" colours portray as "passion". Fujifilm cameras are typically more neutral in colour, while Nikon is known to be more warm, more so that Canon.
Isn't this not objective conclusion but only your opinion?

7. Price - Need more say?
This answer seems the most embarassing

In my opinion, the better implemented IS plus wider aperture on the S90 will compensate for the capable high ISO of F200EXR and gives the edge over the F200EXR, which is itself an excellent choice. Do note that high ISO on F200EXR equals to lower DR. ISO 1600 on F200EXR compared to ISO 400 on S90 is similar. True that the F200EXR excels in low light, but well lighted pictures. Unless I post process photos of my friends significantly, I would take S90 over F200EXR any time.
Have you deliberately avoided the lower resolution, poorer dynamic range and higher noise suppression of S90 which will not help those pictures you said is good?
 

1. Lens Range - Not much difference between the 2, consider that both lens reach are too similar for non-critical application. This is for me and I will just walk nearer. A slight win on F200EXR.
Is 105mm vs 140mm insignificant when standing unprotected before the lion vs behind the fence?

2. Lens Aperture - More than 1 stop faster on the S90 on the wide side. Perhaps on the tele end both are similar. Win on S90.
Isn't faster aperture most needed at longer optical length when S90 drops to F4.9 vs faster than F4 in F200EXR at 105mm?
F200EXR: 6.4mm - 32mm / F3.3 - F5.1 equiv 28mm - 140mm
S90: 6 mm - 22.5 mm / F2.0 - F4.9 equiv 28mm - 105mm


3. Image Stabiliser - Yet to see a good implementation on Fujifilm's compacts. On the contrary, Canon's compacts do decently well. Win on S90 for that 1 to 2 stops advantage.
Is there objective comparison other than your opinion here?

4. IQ Output - F200EXR has the upper edge at same ISO in well lighted pictures. But personally I have low opinion of the decision to retain details while having those noise on the pictures that can destroy the pictures for the F200EXR. This is a PnS.
Is this consistence with the objective comparison of identical pictures in earlier posts?

5. Colour Output - This is subjective, but so far I do not like F30's colour. I still prefer Canon's colour. Out of camera JPEG from F200 seems to be a little on the pale side, or is it me?
Can poorer IQ of S90 be made good in RAW?

6. Flash - With friends, I would choose S90 for its warm colour. Colour is more pushy with default parameters? Again, this is very subjective, as in who wants to see what more. anglim showed that nature pictures can be shown as "calm" using a F200EXR. Similarly, using a S90 may result in more "warm" colours portray as "passion". Fujifilm cameras are typically more neutral in colour, while Nikon is known to be more warm, more so that Canon.
Isn't this not objective conclusion but only your opinion?

7. Price - Need more say?
This answer seems the most embarassing

In my opinion, the better implemented IS plus wider aperture on the S90 will compensate for the capable high ISO of F200EXR and gives the edge over the F200EXR, which is itself an excellent choice. Do note that high ISO on F200EXR equals to lower DR. ISO 1600 on F200EXR compared to ISO 400 on S90 is similar. True that the F200EXR excels in low light, but well lighted pictures. Unless I post process photos of my friends significantly, I would take S90 over F200EXR any time.
Have you deliberately avoided the lower resolution, poorer dynamic range and higher noise suppression of S90 which will not help those pictures you said is good?
1. for me i don see the need of the extra 35mm as well as most of the time im using the wider end of the range. but that just me

2.
again, wide end is more important for me

3.
I agree with theITguy, canon IS is superior to the fujifilm stabiliser after using camera from both side. in fact imho, fujifilm stabiliser is one of the least effective.
 

1. Lens Range - Not much difference between the 2, consider that both lens reach are too similar for non-critical application. This is for me and I will just walk nearer. A slight win on F200EXR.
Is 105mm vs 140mm insignificant when standing unprotected before the lion vs behind the fence?

Reply: I would just crop. Alternatively, I would just use a longer zoom if I know I want to take a lion's picture seriously. If you want the details, try Olympus E-30 plus 12-60 or 35-100.

2. Lens Aperture - More than 1 stop faster on the S90 on the wide side. Perhaps on the tele end both are similar. Win on S90.
Isn't faster aperture most needed at longer optical length when S90 drops to F4.9 vs faster than F4 in F200EXR at 105mm?
F200EXR: 6.4mm - 32mm / F3.3 - F5.1 equiv 28mm - 140mm
S90: 6 mm - 22.5 mm / F2.0 - F4.9 equiv 28mm - 105mm


Reply: You are right, technically. Practically, the IS of Canon compensates for it partly. We buy a camera not for specs only. We use it as a camera on a whole, not zooming into a particular spec.

3. Image Stabiliser - Yet to see a good implementation on Fujifilm's compacts. On the contrary, Canon's compacts do decently well. Win on S90 for that 1 to 2 stops advantage.
Is there objective comparison other than your opinion here?

Reply: If you can prove otherwise, I will be open. I am open to dig up more of Fujifilm's weak IS implementation.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canons90/page10.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilmf200exr/page8.asp

Other evidence of Fujifilm's weak IS implementation on other cameras:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/Q109superzoomgroup/page12.asp

The newer F80EXR improves slightly:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/Q210grouptravelzoom/page20.asp

4. IQ Output - F200EXR has the upper edge at same ISO in well lighted pictures. But personally I have low opinion of the decision to retain details while having those noise on the pictures that can destroy the pictures for the F200EXR. This is a PnS.
Is this consistence with the objective comparison of identical pictures in earlier posts?

Reply: I think any girls would prefer to look more vivid than exposing all the pimples and flaws on the face.

5. Colour Output - This is subjective, but so far I do not like F30's colour. I still prefer Canon's colour. Out of camera JPEG from F200 seems to be a little on the pale side, or is it me?
Can poorer IQ of S90 be made good in RAW?

Reply: We are talking out of camera colour. There is a reason why people buy Canon, even for my sister who personally is very anal about picture output does not like Fujifilm's output and colour. Fujifilm is real and natural, but picture making for commoners is to be unreal and vivid.

6. Flash - With friends, I would choose S90 for its warm colour. Colour is more pushy with default parameters? Again, this is very subjective, as in who wants to see what more. anglim showed that nature pictures can be shown as "calm" using a F200EXR. Similarly, using a S90 may result in more "warm" colours portray as "passion". Fujifilm cameras are typically more neutral in colour, while Nikon is known to be more warm, more so that Canon.
Isn't this not objective conclusion but only your opinion?

Reply: I already said this is subjective. If you prefer it your way, then it is good for you. Can I force my taste onto you? Answer is no, so this is subjective. If I like calm pictures, then F200EXR is the choice. Maybe you choose to read and skip "subjective".

7. Price - Need more say?
This answer seems the most embarassing

Reply: Well, there is no need for comparison since both are not in the same price range and if you made it a major factor out of it. To me, a PnS should be compact and serve the needs.


In my opinion, the better implemented IS plus wider aperture on the S90 will compensate for the capable high ISO of F200EXR and gives the edge over the F200EXR, which is itself an excellent choice. Do note that high ISO on F200EXR equals to lower DR. ISO 1600 on F200EXR compared to ISO 400 on S90 is similar. True that the F200EXR excels in low light, but well lighted pictures. Unless I post process photos of my friends significantly, I would take S90 over F200EXR any time.
Have you deliberately avoided the lower resolution, poorer dynamic range and higher noise suppression of S90 which will not help those pictures you said is good?

Reply: Perhaps one of those other larger sensors camera (i.e. Canon 550D, Panasonic GF1 and Olympus EPL1 etc etc) for high resolution, high DR and low noise is more suitable. The tonality of the F200EXR, inability to enlarge without showing its flaws plus lack of zoom range cripple it for serious work. Better still, get a Large Format with slides or negatives, drum scan. Can pixel peep with a 60" print. Get real.
 

Looks like an endless contention here when girls and sister are brought into the discussion. I think resorting to cropping or comparing against Large Format with slides or negatives seems irrelevant here.

Yes after reading your links, S90 has better IS. That might explain why I needed a monopod, particularly with available light or at longer zoom. In fact, all PnS inherently suffers instability when viewing from LCD unlike the stability when pressing the view-finder against eye bone. Some photographers may say specs are unimportant but when you look at their equipment, they usually have of the most refined specs. Conversely, making claim without objective comparison or measured assessment can often mislead many.

Enough words. Allow me to bring an objective comparison from dpreview. Perhaps, to avoid embarrassing anyone, they have used number for one and graph for the other while not covering every aspect identically as in most of their other reviews.

F200EXR
F200exrscores.jpg


S90
S90scores.jpg

S90 is given an overall score of 7.5
 

Looks like an endless contention here when girls and sister are brought into the discussion. I think resorting to cropping or comparing against Large Format with slides or negatives seems irrelevant here.

Yes after reading your links, S90 has better IS. That might explain why I needed a monopod, particularly with available light or at longer zoom. In fact, all PnS inherently suffers instability when viewing from LCD unlike the stability when pressing the view-finder against eye bone. Some photographers may say specs are unimportant but when you look at their equipment, they usually have of the most refined specs. Conversely, making claim without objective comparison or measured assessment can often mislead many.

Enough words. Allow me to bring an objective comparison from dpreview. Perhaps, to avoid embarrassing anyone, they have used number for one and graph for the other while not covering every aspect identically as in most of their other reviews.

F200EXR
F200exrscores.jpg


S90
S90scores.jpg

S90 is given an overall score of 7.5


Cool, you should put this up long ago, which will make this discussion redundant.

Having say this, I am not saying F200EXR is not a good choice. The choice of a camera depends greatly on the usage and person using it. If I have only one camera to own, yes F200EXR is a great one to do casual pictures plus some other more serious photography. But it does not produce impact photos out of the camera without some setting adjustment. For family/friends photos, F200EXR will be a headache to own.

Camera is dead, likewise for strategies. Give it to friends and others who do not know how to operate, it will be disaster.
 

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Confused by what you saying here after all the exchanges - wasted my time (or many readers' time).

I don't know about S90, most F200EXRs have already found their owners leaving too few on the shelf by now. Cheers.

Cool, you should put this up long ago, which will make this discussion redundant.

Having say this, I am not saying F200EXR is not a good choice. The choice of a camera depends greatly on the usage and person using it. If I have only one camera to own, yes F200EXR is a great one to do casual pictures plus some other more serious photography. But it does not produce impact photos out of the camera without some setting adjustment. For family/friends photos, F200EXR will be a headache to own.

Camera is dead, likewise for strategies. Give it to friends and others who do not know how to operate, it will be disaster.
 

Let's see how F200EXR compared to S90 here:

F200EXRvsS90ISO800a.jpg


F200EXRvsS90ISO800b.jpg


F200EXRvsS90ISO100.jpg


A closer view of an identical picture with both cameras at ISO100, F200EXR (left) and S90 (right)
F200EXRvsS90ISO100x.jpg

Did you toggle the "night mode" (Nacht = night in German, I think)? i.e. on the website: http://www.dkamera.de/testbericht/fujifilm-finepix-f200exr/bildqualitaet.html, choose Canon S90 on the right column, select "Nacht" for both cameras, and put the ISO to 800. I think the picture above shows the performance of the camera for normal lighting, but if you wish to look at low-light performance, perhaps one should toggle the "night mode" as well?:
 

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Confused by what you saying here after all the exchanges - wasted my time (or many readers' time).

I don't know about S90, most F200EXRs have already found their owners leaving too few on the shelf by now. Cheers.

Example:

Stores bring in 5 units of Product A, sold out in 2 week. Stock replenish lead time of 2 weeks

Stores bring in 50 units of Product B, sold 25 units in 1 week. Stock replenish lead time of 1 week

Can we determine if Product A is more in demand than Product B?
 

Did you toggle the "night mode" (Nacht = night in German, I think)? i.e. on the website: http://www.dkamera.de/testbericht/fujifilm-finepix-f200exr/bildqualitaet.html, choose Canon S90 on the right column, select "Nacht" for both cameras, and put the ISO to 800. I think the picture above shows the performance of the camera for normal lighting, but if you wish to look at low-light performance, perhaps one should toggle the "night mode" as well?:


I'm looking for a PNS for low light indoor still photo, any better recommendation?
 

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Looks like an endless contention here when girls and sister are brought into the discussion. I think resorting to cropping or comparing against Large Format with slides or negatives seems irrelevant here.

Yes after reading your links, S90 has better IS. That might explain why I needed a monopod, particularly with available light or at longer zoom. In fact, all PnS inherently suffers instability when viewing from LCD unlike the stability when pressing the view-finder against eye bone. Some photographers may say specs are unimportant but when you look at their equipment, they usually have of the most refined specs. Conversely, making claim without objective comparison or measured assessment can often mislead many.

Enough words. Allow me to bring an objective comparison from dpreview. Perhaps, to avoid embarrassing anyone, they have used number for one and graph for the other while not covering every aspect identically as in most of their other reviews.

F200EXR
F200exrscores.jpg


S90
S90scores.jpg

S90 is given an overall score of 7.5

If we just based on review rating, then F200EXR better than most DSLR out there...dream on.
 

Looks like an endless contention here when girls and sister are brought into the discussion. I think resorting to cropping or comparing against Large Format with slides or negatives seems irrelevant here.

Yes after reading your links, S90 has better IS. That might explain why I needed a monopod, particularly with available light or at longer zoom. In fact, all PnS inherently suffers instability when viewing from LCD unlike the stability when pressing the view-finder against eye bone. Some photographers may say specs are unimportant but when you look at their equipment, they usually have of the most refined specs. Conversely, making claim without objective comparison or measured assessment can often mislead many.

Enough words. Allow me to bring an objective comparison from dpreview. Perhaps, to avoid embarrassing anyone, they have used number for one and graph for the other while not covering every aspect identically as in most of their other reviews.
[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]

not taking sides here. if score was ur basis of comparisons, are u objective enough to actually know that:
1) reviews could be biased.
2) S90 was reviewed one year later compared to F200EXR (F200EXR could have scored better simply becoz it is good in it's time).
3) the reviewers for both reports in the source of ur info were 2 different person.
4) and point 1-3 could have lead to a difference in scores, which in your opinion the score was objective?

theITguy is merely stating his personal opinion here. the person who is seeking an answer and is reading this thread will need have the common sense that these are merely just opinions, not model answers as to which is better. theITguy can only state what is good for him and why, which is for the TS's reference only. And yes, anglim, you can have your fair share of the opinion by all means, but things do get much more complex when u come in with your so-called objective comparisons.
 

I'm looking for a PNS for low light indoor still photo, any better recommendation?

1. The higher-end PNS should be fine if u use tripod and/or flash.

2. If handheld without flash, I personally prefer PNS with f/2.0 lenses or better: e.g. Canon S90, Ricoh GR III, Panasonic LX3 and any newer models that compete with these, such as the PowerShot SD4000 IS (IXUS 300 HS, IXY 30S). I heard the Olympus PEN (can't remember which model) has good low light performance too, I assume this is at least partly because of the larger sensor.

If "pure numbers" matter to you, see: http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/en/Camera-Sensor/Sensor-rankings. However dxomark may be more of a guide--you can't simply replace a proper camera review with a pure number.

3. Note that for low-light indoor photos, a lot of point-and-shoots may have difficulty focusing under low light conditions, especially if the subject is moving (here, an f/2.0 lens or brighter lens can help, as well as the autofocus assist light, though not always).
 

If we just based on review rating, then F200EXR better than most DSLR out there...dream on.

Not surprised. Because such statement was made in the 60s when 35mm hoped to replace the large format; in the 90s when digital hoped to replace 35mm; perhaps while approaching 2020, what is the chance that PnS (of course not F200EXR) will replace DSLR - a dream?

By and large at the moment, the gap with the better DSLR is still significant, particularly with the premium lenses. However, for laymen shooting, some DSLRs seem to be giving way to PnS in dpreview provided you have not esteemed yourself too highly than those guys there. Need to avoid bringing out specific model now because some have taken offence if to reflect on a few comments here. Or, you can also refer to other reviews if you think dpreview is not objective enough. Can we be possibly objective if to insist reviews are wrong, our comments and hearsay are correct?

I hesitated awhile whether to touch on sensor size because of one potentially common misconception but let me make the mistake and hear out from the rest.
For a sensor resolution of 10Mp
is 35mm 3.5x sharper than 4/3", 35mm (864sqmm) vs 4/3" (243qmm) ?
is 4/3” 5.5x sharper than 1/1.7", 4/3” (243sqmm) vs 1/1.7" (44sqmm) ?

The answer may lie with larger sensors having the benefit larger pixels but not necessary larger number of pixels. The larger pixels bring out the potential of higher sensitivity, better signal to noise ratio and wider dynamic range but that has nothing to do with higher resolution which many would have wanted. For a given amount of background noise, larger pixel can tolerate higher signal to noise ratio and thus less noisy, particularly at lower level of photon influx. They can detect much lower and higher influx of photons over a given exposure time (at the same aperture) to enhance the sensitivity. They also have capacity of a greater volume of photon before being saturated, hence better discrimination in terms of wider dynamic range. Meaning to say, for the same resolution, it is possible for PnS to produce pictures comparable to DSLR only if the constraints in light conditions from its smaller sensor are well addressed by technologies and in an experienced hand (maybe you want to try confidently singling out the DSLR and PNS shots above).

As for optics, the quality in smaller lenses has improved substantially in recent year if you make some identical picture comparison. Also, it seems the difference between fixed and zoom lenses is less significant in digital cameras in many reviews unlike the 35mm days. Or is it the top premium optics is of little use in current digital cameras because the excellent optical resolution cannot be fully exploited by current meager pixel counts. In fact, my take is if to go beyond 20Mp and into 100Mp, when compared to the impractical bulk of DSLR becoming off-bit in the generations to come, the potential in funding the high res pixel count pursuit is more probable with PnS cost spreading mass-production, given its awaiting enormous market just like what the Korean did with LCDs in the early millennium.

So, if technology increasingly addresses the issue of sensitivity, noise, dynamic range, better and more compact optics, will the era of large lens, large aperture and large sensor eventually belongs to the minority, just like the existing large format cameras. Have technologies not proven to bring to the common folks computers, IT, cellphones etc which were once only for the rich now not just at a much affordable price, but with a far greater capabilities – the coming reality to cameras?

Perhaps, many big brands might be unfairly trying for as long as possible to sustain a hefty profit from their established empire of pricey DSLR and peripherals, even making many to think that any PnS having DSLR benefits have be expensive. Can anybody rule out there is no deliberate stifling of such technological potentials in PnS because of competitively low-profit margin of mass-produced PnS. Who knows Samsung is trying to break these unfair practices with its EX-1 following the humble attempt by F200EXR and I hope many more to come.

Or have some us been permanently cropped out by the big brands to believe the competitively priced PnS can never beat DSLR and their more profitable DSLR will never be overtaken by PnS?
 

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