F200EXR vs Canon S90
- Thread starter BlueFairy
- Start date
so anglim's posts are saying F200 is better than the other two..
If I may bring in Sigma DP-2, surprisingly F200EXR looks to be hard fight for this premium fixed lens PnS assuming dkamera is fair in all the shots. What do you think?
If really dkamera is reporting everything correctly, then we may have alot less contention in many forums. Unfortunately, they only have limited cameras for comparison. And also no amount of advertisements and hearsay can mislead the innocent consumers.
A closer view of an identical picture with both cameras at ISO100, DP-2 (left) and F200EXR (right)
i got no idea lens can be judged by just looking at those low resolution picture.
so looking at this picture, does that mean f200 have superior lens compare to the lx3 leica?
not trying to defend any camera, but it seriously doesn't make sense to compare optic just by looking at the lens itself...
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You are right no one can judge a lens just by looking at the optics. However, I feel that with poorly coated elements and worst trying to sting on glass area yet putting big aperture are often potential design compromises for good optics. Do correct me here if I am wrong.
Most good lens are generous with glass and coating. At F2.0 aperture for both, LX3 design is a good example versus S90 here (since the earlier comparison with F200EXR might have offended you). Perhaps, you may want to see the identical pictures comparison of LX3 vs S90 if such considerations are consistent in producing with good IQ. Good to be objective.
Between F200EXR and LX3, you can see the close fight in earlier comparisons.
Most good lens are generous with glass and coating. At F2.0 aperture for both, LX3 design is a good example versus S90 here (since the earlier comparison with F200EXR might have offended you). Perhaps, you may want to see the identical pictures comparison of LX3 vs S90 if such considerations are consistent in producing with good IQ. Good to be objective.
Between F200EXR and LX3, you can see the close fight in earlier comparisons.
Anti-Social
New Member
S90 check out ken rockwell's website
Reading Ken rockwell's site seems amusing for the fact that he often jumps to conclusion without much objective reasoning just like here.
The Canon S90 IS is the best compact digital camera ever made because it has direct-control dials which let you adjust it for prefect photos every time. These dials are much easier and faster than the menus of other cameras. See my page about it for details.
The S90 fits in a pocket and has unbeaten image quality for a compact. See my Canon S90 photos from Death Valley and my Canon S90 Sample Photos of Indian Country. There is no substitute; get one while you can since compact camera models come and go so fast.
The S90 was announced on 19 August 2009 and started shipping in October 2009. It will probably be available until Summer 2010.
Does this tell you that his remarks are rather fishy especially if you read further couple of more Canon PnS he unconvincingly trying to advocate (might be quite unfortunate for Canon). But he does take good photos. Is it possible he has perks which make him says things just to sway the ignorant and undecided?
Maybe he is now in both camp - Nikon DSLR and Canon PnS. Whichever, it doesn't need a lot of brain to figure out his intent I would think. Ken rockwell - a genius or a fool at http://www.dpchallenge.com/forum.php?action=read&FORUM_THREAD_ID=334007&page=1#2051636
The Canon S90 IS is the best compact digital camera ever made because it has direct-control dials which let you adjust it for prefect photos every time. These dials are much easier and faster than the menus of other cameras. See my page about it for details.
The S90 fits in a pocket and has unbeaten image quality for a compact. See my Canon S90 photos from Death Valley and my Canon S90 Sample Photos of Indian Country. There is no substitute; get one while you can since compact camera models come and go so fast.
The S90 was announced on 19 August 2009 and started shipping in October 2009. It will probably be available until Summer 2010.
Does this tell you that his remarks are rather fishy especially if you read further couple of more Canon PnS he unconvincingly trying to advocate (might be quite unfortunate for Canon). But he does take good photos. Is it possible he has perks which make him says things just to sway the ignorant and undecided?
Maybe he is now in both camp - Nikon DSLR and Canon PnS. Whichever, it doesn't need a lot of brain to figure out his intent I would think. Ken rockwell - a genius or a fool at http://www.dpchallenge.com/forum.php?action=read&FORUM_THREAD_ID=334007&page=1#2051636
I singled out Sigma DP-2 because its fixed 24mm F2.8 lens is supposedly on par with the professional DSLRs. You notice correctly that its IQ is only equal or slightly better than F200EXR zoom lens - that's where common folks like us have not paid Fujifilm unlike some big brands. Do you also notice F200EXR exhibits greater contrast details of the sailing boat logo than DP-2?
In earlier comparison, LX3 surprisingly loses to F200EXR in several aspects. I suspect there is virtually no Leica quality in their low-ends lenses although many would have hoped otherwise. I don't need to say for S90 which is too obvious.
In earlier comparison, LX3 surprisingly loses to F200EXR in several aspects. I suspect there is virtually no Leica quality in their low-ends lenses although many would have hoped otherwise. I don't need to say for S90 which is too obvious.
Based on the images above, the resolution is more than just slightly better on the DP-2, and definitely not equal at all; esp at higher ISO.
The missing details on the sail boat logo are likely the result of low contrast / under exposure. Since the DP-2 images are underexposed, it's hard to compare contrast between them. Weird why the website would want to use poorly exposed images for comparison.
I think the F200 is an excellent camera, but don't expect it to do miracles with a much smaller sensor.
Well the comparison is relative. If you are objectively looking at the identical shots here and think the marginal (that's my take) difference between DP-2 and F200EXR is vast apart, then, the difference between F200EXR and S90 in the context of this thread is beyond any imagination if you are still using the same yardstick.
Perhaps, the suggested underexposure might be just your personal view.
Perhaps, the suggested underexposure might be just your personal view.
I'm a little confused. Comparing DP-2 with F200? The DP2 sensor is at least 7 times larger than the Fuji. I'm beginning to think the dkcamera test is flawed in some way. I can't navigate in the site cos I don't understand German. I think we're getting ahead of ourselves here. To put things in perspective, at ISO800 The F200 can't even compare with the F31!
Which is good for me cos i just got the latter for $200 used
Which is good for me cos i just got the latter for $200 used
1/30 F5.0 vs 1/85 F3.3 - what do you think?
You mean both set of images have the same exposure?
You spotted correctly that after so many years, few sub-$500 cameras can beat F31 in high ISO performance although F200EXR is quite close. Hope you don't bring in those models resorting to blantant noise suppression at expense of resolution like S90 here. On the same token now, few sub-$500 cameras can get close to F200EXR for dynamic range. Perhaps, you might want to name us if there is one.
Like many others, I was also initially misled by the large sensor and fixed lens design thinking DP-2 must be among the best PnS. It is true that sensor of DP-2 is far bigger than F200EXR. But I suspect resolution of large CMOS may not necessary be comparable to smaller CCD if dkcamera is correct. Also I am not sure if Sigma is known for highest quality optics though its F2.8 lens is fixed (but certainly better than S90's tiny elements F2.0). Have you not seen enough poor pictures taken from 35mm film which is even bigger than DP-2's sensor?
Maybe it is interesting to read a rather unsubstantiated suggestion against dkcamera. I also don't read German but I know it is a language used often by people who might be more careful and thorough than some. You might want to know other than dkcamera, the large sensor of DP-2 also didn't show up too well with the 1/1.7" sensor of Ricoh GRD III http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sigmadp2/page21.asp. Unfortunately doreview have not included 1/1.6" sensor of F200EXR in the comparison.
Come to think of it, choosing a PnS camera can be confusing now like what you say, particularly when brands are offering meaninglessly high pixels, high ISO with blurred image, using big aperture with little glasses, lavishing on full page advertisement, hiring professionals to advocate, sometimes even including seemingly larger sensor, inadequate consideration for quality optics and what have you.
Like many others, I was also initially misled by the large sensor and fixed lens design thinking DP-2 must be among the best PnS. It is true that sensor of DP-2 is far bigger than F200EXR. But I suspect resolution of large CMOS may not necessary be comparable to smaller CCD if dkcamera is correct. Also I am not sure if Sigma is known for highest quality optics though its F2.8 lens is fixed (but certainly better than S90's tiny elements F2.0). Have you not seen enough poor pictures taken from 35mm film which is even bigger than DP-2's sensor?
Maybe it is interesting to read a rather unsubstantiated suggestion against dkcamera. I also don't read German but I know it is a language used often by people who might be more careful and thorough than some. You might want to know other than dkcamera, the large sensor of DP-2 also didn't show up too well with the 1/1.7" sensor of Ricoh GRD III http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sigmadp2/page21.asp. Unfortunately doreview have not included 1/1.6" sensor of F200EXR in the comparison.
Come to think of it, choosing a PnS camera can be confusing now like what you say, particularly when brands are offering meaninglessly high pixels, high ISO with blurred image, using big aperture with little glasses, lavishing on full page advertisement, hiring professionals to advocate, sometimes even including seemingly larger sensor, inadequate consideration for quality optics and what have you.
I'm a little confused. Comparing DP-2 with F200? The DP2 sensor is at least 7 times larger than the Fuji. I'm beginning to think the dkcamera test is flawed in some way. I can't navigate in the site cos I don't understand German. I think we're getting ahead of ourselves here. To put things in perspective, at ISO800 The F200 can't even compare with the F31!
Which is good for me cos i just got the latter for $200 used
airconvent
Senior Member
Hi anglim
I know you mentioned "sub-$500" cameras and that automatically excludes the LX3. I have seen comments from many but from the sample images, they do not differ much at all. Only the LX3 has a more reputable and faster leica lens (and higher price tag). What is your take on dynamic range performance between the LX3 and F200EXR?
Remember that brochure image of the lady in the corridor to sell the DR, I tried taking the same types of images but can't seem to match it regardless of whether in EXR mode at max DR or in P mode too. Any suggestions what else settings I should make?
I also previously owned the F20 which has the same CCD and resolution as the F31 but noise performance on that unit was not very favorable. I can only presume that the F31 uses a more aggressive noise reduction algorithm vs the F20. I sold that one off before upgrading to the F200EXR.
Cheers
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Well I might have upset some S90 users reading from a few pm - my apologies. Ok F200EXR is definitely not the best PnS but it seems having difficulty finding a strong rival among its sub-$500 peers.
I will have to be as objective as possible. As compared to the costlier LX-3, its dynamic range could be better if to look at http://www.digitalrev.com/en/camera...ic-lx3-and-fujifilm-f200exr-4414-article.html. It managed to retain more details in the sky inspite of the mountain more exposed.
But we may be disappointed with F200EXR because it does not recover details of underexposed area. I suspect LX-3 may better handle the lady in the corridor just like the details below the roof http://www.flickr.com/photos/permanenttraveller/2807324809/.
Having said that, the more objective test suggested the LX-3 is not at all so great in its dynamic range performance at http://www.digitalcamerainfo.com/co...-Camera-Review-19068/Color-and-Resolution.htm
I will have to be as objective as possible. As compared to the costlier LX-3, its dynamic range could be better if to look at http://www.digitalrev.com/en/camera...ic-lx3-and-fujifilm-f200exr-4414-article.html. It managed to retain more details in the sky inspite of the mountain more exposed.
But we may be disappointed with F200EXR because it does not recover details of underexposed area. I suspect LX-3 may better handle the lady in the corridor just like the details below the roof http://www.flickr.com/photos/permanenttraveller/2807324809/.
Having said that, the more objective test suggested the LX-3 is not at all so great in its dynamic range performance at http://www.digitalcamerainfo.com/co...-Camera-Review-19068/Color-and-Resolution.htm
airconvent
Senior Member
Thanks anglim.
That being said, I rejected the LX3 because of the high cost and bulky size for a PnS. I think the the F200EXR itself is already stretching it in view of the many sexy and tiny cameras out there but honestly, I think the main constraints is the lens size matched to a larger CCD.
That said, I do hope the next F300EXR will come in a smaller size, with x10 zoom, better noise performance and dynamic range.
and yes...not forgetting 720p recording! 640x480 is so yesterday!
That being said, I rejected the LX3 because of the high cost and bulky size for a PnS. I think the the F200EXR itself is already stretching it in view of the many sexy and tiny cameras out there but honestly, I think the main constraints is the lens size matched to a larger CCD.
That said, I do hope the next F300EXR will come in a smaller size, with x10 zoom, better noise performance and dynamic range.
and yes...not forgetting 720p recording! 640x480 is so yesterday! jammerwong
New Member
That said, I do hope the next F300EXR will come in a smaller size, with x10 zoom, better noise performance and dynamic range. [/QUOTE]
I am not sure if the rumours about F300 having a 1/1.4 size sensor be able to come in a smaller size and yet have 10x zoom. I would rather have the wider end of the lens (24mm equivalent). Of course better dynamic range and video
[/QUOTE]I am not sure if the rumours about F300 having a 1/1.4 size sensor be able to come in a smaller size and yet have 10x zoom. I would rather have the wider end of the lens (24mm equivalent). Of course better dynamic range and video
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