f/4 lens and f/2.8 lens equal ?

[Belle&Sebastain]

funny that I normally use an aperture wider than 2.8 under board day light. I guess it depends on what you're trying to achieve.

:thumbsup: me too, often i shoot wide open between f1.4 to f2.2 in bright daylight, depends what you want and know how to acheive.:angel:

 

[unseen]

Bro Unseen,


Am confused. Why do you say "indoors @ f5.6 iso400 1/60" will produce junk pictures?

Trying to break it down:

1. ISO400 - A pretty common setting.
2. 1/60 - A shutter speed that is fast enough for most indoor subjects
3. f5.6 - Is this what you think is not adequate? Too slow? But with flash why not?

Cant get the rationale behind this scenario where it is deemed to produce bad picture. Kindly educate us becos many of us are shooting at this setting (due to limitation of lens) on our consumer grade lens. Thanks

Pro Bro Belle&Sebastain has answered you relatively completely, made every point I would have wanted to make, though I doubt I could have phrased it as well.

Let me go a step further and ask: If your viewers can't even tell what sort environment/background/atmosphere was at the event, what sort of event photographer are you? If someone who didn't go to that event wouldn't know what went on from your photos, what sort of setting, etc etc. Do you consider your self to have captured the "event"?

It'll do most of you well if you would brood on the following words.

these kind of settings are the type when i first started photography without any grip on

1) isolation of subjects
2) background atmosphere
3) what is dear-in-the headlights shots?

 

[unseen]

You guys make a very bold statement.

It says:

"Junk all your lens if it aint f2.8"


Possibly you guys gonna bellow at those guys with his f4 lens at the event shoot "Hey yo, f4 one go stand behind!"

You know, this sounds like a bad case of penis/equipment envy + insecurity.
I believe that the statement made is given 2 lenses, the 2.8 is way superior because it being able to let in more light.
Given 2 guys who knows event photography proper, the 2.8 lens guy is going to give superior images. Unlike the close to imaginery difference between original lenses and 3rd party lenses, the difference between images from a F4 ISO400 bsmilie and a F2.8 [ISO as needed] would be appreciable by a non photographer. And I'm not talking about stuff like contrast/sharpness/resolving power etc.

Me, I really welcome those who like to shoot at F5.6 ISO400 1/60. It give clients all the more reasons to avoid other photographers and hire me. :bsmilie:

 

[rexscooby]

lets say , i use a "70 - 200mm f/2.8 L IS" and a "70 - 200mm f/4 L IS" lens at an outdoor shoot in the zoo with GOOD natural light(shooting animals) , would the f/2.8 really win the f/4 FLAT down ? or would be not much difference ?

Cause seriously speaking , according to MOST people here , the f/2.8 rules . BUT the thing about the f/4 is smaller and half the weight of the f/2.8 . If you are shooting for 5 - 6 hours of continious holding your camera (no tripod , no monopod), wouldn't the f/2.8 be a headache later because of weight ?

Sorry huh , thinking of getting the 70-200mm f/4 L IS so just wanted to ask ask first . NEW bird still learning how to fly ;p

 

[USM]

I think that it is time to lock this thread. It has already served its purpose.

The 2.8 vs 4 debate will always continue just the C vs N.

Each lens has its own purposes. You have to be experienced enough in order to understand the use of 2.8 and 4. You can argue until the cows come home.

Currently in the B&S section, there is one sale of the EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS. Why sell, you may ask? The reason quoted by the seller is "It's just too heavy for an old man to carry around". Good to have but serves the purpose / needs? Only yourself can answer this question. He is replacing it with the EF 70-200mm f4L IS.

 

[calebk]

Yeap, I say close it too, or another war may erupt. :bsmilie:

Seriously, this thread has LOADS of info for any newbie.

 

[canongrapherL]

This kind of generalisation is not very correct. You do not necesssary must shoot at strictly f2.8 in order to get good event pictures.

I have owned/own several f2.8 lenses and f4 lenses too. Started from a cheapie Tamron 28-75, Tamron 90mm and finally to Canon 24-70L (which i still sold off eventually for a Canon 24-105IS). My 70-200mm f4 is used just as often as my 70-200mm f2.8 Non-IS nowadays.

Yes, the f2.8 helps you shoot easier. You dont have to bump ISO to the sky. You can avoid more motion blur and yet capture more ambiance. But all this is relative to the amount of available light at the events. Some events are darker, some are brighter and perfectly adequate with shooting at f4.

Your saying that f4 and smaller aperture have no place at the event shoots is just not so correct. I am surprised that many f2.8 supporters who have claimed to be seasoned experienced shooters here did not even mentioned factors like:

1. amount of available light on subjects
2. amount of available light on background
3. distance between photographer and subjects
4. Stage setup

These factors determines how you need to setup your cam. Many times, one can do away with shooting at f4 cos NOT all events all so very dark. Many stages at events only have small area with a white wall closely behind, and therefore not neccesary must drag longer shutter or worry about isolation.

There are great event pictures posted in our own "Ready, lights, action!" thread here in CS. Not all of them are taken with f2.8 but technically capable pictures nonetheless. It is therefore not entirely correct to assume that event shoots must only be done at f2.8.

You know, this sounds like a bad case of penis/equipment envy + insecurity.
I believe that the statement made is given 2 lenses, the 2.8 is way superior because it being able to let in more light.
Given 2 guys who knows event photography proper, the 2.8 lens guy is going to give superior images. Unlike the close to imaginery difference between original lenses and 3rd party lenses, the difference between images from a F4 ISO400 bsmilie and a F2.8 [ISO as needed] would be appreciable by a non photographer. And I'm not talking about stuff like contrast/sharpness/resolving power etc.

Me, I really welcome those who like to shoot at F5.6 ISO400 1/60. It give clients all the more reasons to avoid other photographers and hire me. :bsmilie:

 

[cibs]

:thumbsup: me too, often i shoot wide open between f1.4 to f2.2 in bright daylight, depends what you want and know how to acheive.:angel:

Exactly.. some situations and composition requires a 2.8 whilst others require f4+. Its not the size that matters but what you do with it..


Close the thread!

 

[ExplorerZ]

lets say , i use a "70 - 200mm f/2.8 L IS" and a "70 - 200mm f/4 L IS" lens at an outdoor shoot in the zoo with GOOD natural light(shooting animals) , would the f/2.8 really win the f/4 FLAT down ? or would be not much difference ?

Cause seriously speaking , according to MOST people here , the f/2.8 rules . BUT the thing about the f/4 is smaller and half the weight of the f/2.8 . If you are shooting for 5 - 6 hours of continious holding your camera (no tripod , no monopod), wouldn't the f/2.8 be a headache later because of weight ?

Sorry huh , thinking of getting the 70-200mm f/4 L IS so just wanted to ask ask first . NEW bird still learning how to fly ;p

not much of advantage in outdoor unless you need the bokeh. but when it comes to shade, f2.8 will comes in real useful.

anyway, i don see the point of comparing a f2.8 and f4 lens when both are using f8 and all other setting are the same. in this case why not compare with the 18-55 kit lens at f8 as well? :dunno:
im sure stopping down the 18-55 f3.5-5.6 kit lens to f8 would give you pretty respectable image quality as well as compared to even a f1.0 lens stopping down to f8 as well.

 

[unseen]

There are great event pictures posted in our own "Ready, lights, action!" thread here in CS. Not all of them are taken with f2.8 but technically capable pictures nonetheless. It is therefore not entirely correct to assume that event shoots must only be done at f2.8.

:dunno: Who ever said it must only be done at F2.8?
Or are you assuming that F2.8 lens users only shoot at F2.8?
I went through all the pages and I didn't see anyone mention it. I think only those without a grasp of fundamentals of photography would shoot only at F2.8 just because they have a F2.8 lens. Those with the know-how with a F2.8 lens would shoot at any and every ISO/Aperture required, and they have an option to go F2.8 which in many cases would allow them much better photos.

Let's not go so far as to look at another subforum. I'm still waiting for the stunning photos from someone in this thread with ISO 400 F5.6 1/60 at an indoor event. Talk is big. However I don't think he's gonna revisit this thread again.

 

[Stratix]

Let's not go so far as to look at another subforum. I'm still waiting for the stunning photos from someone in this thread with ISO 400 F5.6 1/60 at an indoor event. Talk is big. However I don't think he's gonna revisit this thread again.

:bsmilie: :bsmilie:

i felt like throwing away my 70-200 f/2.8 after reading that :bsmilie:

 

[Snoweagle]

please leh.

i'm never an equipment whore, but really, i believe in using the right lens for the right kinda event.

no, if i had my way, i'll use a 28-300 also. saves my back (and my injured foot) a hell lot of stress.

but no, it just doesn't cut. fine if your event is in broad daylight, but even so, i'll explore shooting with f/1.4 + ND filters. DOF is king sir.

but anyhow, shooting fireworks with a 70-200 2.8L IS from esplanade bridge is just wrong, and you know what i'm saying :bsmilie: :bigeyes:

Oh please man, u dunno even the inside story and u're jumping into conclusions?? Wake up yr idea lah! I rented that lens for an event so must well make the best use of it. And who told u that taking fireworks cannot use a tele lens? It's on how the perspective u're looking.

One must be flexible and not also going by the rules. If not u're the one losing out in the end. :bsmilie:

 

[Snoweagle]

To that someone out there too. U want a challenge to prove it to u? We'll go take 'Spring in the City' this weekend. I'll make sure u eat yr own words. :bsmilie:

 

[LowLights]

Hahaha guys guys... relax ... no need to get all heated up....

I honest did not expect this thread to last to page 6 :bigeyes: I though that by page 4 it would have been push down... Hahaha ... thanks to all for you input..

The last few page is pack with more practice aspect.. and looking at it everyone would have their own style/preferrence.

As calebk puts it .. there is loads of information for newbie... both technical and practice...

I would love to leave this thread open but I guess it has to be close.. already there is a war over the other thread between C & N (silly one if you asked me... to each his own) anyway, seeing some of the more heated response I would not want a civil war in our CANON back yard ... rite guys... CANON users must and will alway stand as ONE UNITED BROTHERHOOD.. generally speaking no disrespect to sisters out there ... :thumbsup:

Kind of sad to see all this information drift away.. ;( only if I can make it a sticky :bsmilie:

Once again cheers to all !!

Till the next time.. Happy shooting !