EP3 vs Nex7

[Snapperbox]

I don't know why you seem to be getting angry with the d* and bold text.
Bottom line. Small, good primes not available yet on nex.
Zoom options, look larger. M4/3 ones are collapsible to be small in carriage.

I am not angry, just wanting to make my points known.

I know i will be bombarded by many here since this is a MFT subforum even though myself is a MFT user.

 

[cannedpineapples]

I agree the Sony system looks great for manual (adapted) lenses. Eventually I may get one for use with my adapted lenses. The Nex7 that the TS is considering, in particular, looks like a godsend. Awesome EVF, 24mp, peaking mode. Wow.

But the TS wants something more akin to 'small and seamless' (which is why his canon DSLR is gone now). The m43 with its smaller-footprint native lineup (which was the whole point of 4/3 in the first place) will probably suit his needs well there. Both m43 nor Nex7 will fit his criteria of 'IQ not crap', and since he's liquidated all his Canon gear adapted lenses are not an issue.

So he can probably just go for smaller. That's m43.

 

[wonglp]

Although I agree the new X14-42mm is really small and compact, but I thought many of you here actually complained that it is not useful???

How is it not useful when it's not even available? The verdict is still out there. Mirrorless is abt compromise between portability and iq. For me m43 and native lenses is just nice balance. Nex is great for adapted legacy lenses with 1.5 x crop if u are looking at shallower dof, with the peaking function and 2mp evf, it's looks like a great tool for mf. Nex with native lenses is quite turn off for me, except pancakes...everyone has preference, every system has strengths/weaknesses, isn't that great to have competition?my 2 cts

 

[Snapperbox]

How is it not useful when it's not even available? The verdict is still out there. Mirrorless is abt compromise between portability and iq. For me m43 and native lenses is just nice balance. Nex is great for adapted legacy lenses with 1.5 x crop if u are looking at shallower dof, with the peaking function and 2mp evf, it's looks like a great tool for mf. Nex with native lenses is quite turn off for me, except pancakes...everyone has preference, every system has strengths/weaknesses, isn't that great to have competition?my 2 cts

Of course, thats where i mentioned if MFT remains constant, it will end up like Nokia being eaten alive by Apple without knowing it.

BTW, heard you got yourself a Nex5N yesterday, how is it so far? Also one of my shopping list...

 

[wonglp]

I am not angry, just wanting to make my points known.

I know i will be bombarded by many here since this is a MFT subforum even though myself is a MFT user.

there are many nice folks here, i've been ft & mft user for past 4 yrs, and just gotten a nex 5n as well, there's no right or wrong when it comes to personal preference.

edited: new travels fast huh;p i haven't really played with it , just some quick handheld night shots, the Hi ISO is better, on nex screen vs ep3 screen (not a good comparison of course), ep3+12mm iso 800 seems no match for nex+16mm iso1600. but then, noise for me is not the most criteria. still testing. hope can find some time to do it over wkend

 

[Oly5050]

Yes. Just to be upfront in case i am being bombarded by people here. I myself is a GF3 user and do not hv any sony cameras, though i am very much tempted to get the nex7.

I really dun care how the camera looks, retro or not, most importantly it must produce the goods in image quality. If not it will just be another piece of tech gadget junk. A very good example is the legendary Fuji F31fd, it doesnt look good and its bulky for a pns, but i am sure the picture quality it produces is the undisputed king in pns segment, even until now.

As a MFT user for the past 2-3yrs, having owning EP1, GF1, i am kinda feeling lukewarm against this system now. To be honest, throughtout these 3yrs since the first G1 was launched, there isnt much development on the improvement on image quality, we are still seeing a 3yr old sensor bring used and tweaked endlessly on the cameras we see today, except for G3/GH2. Even with many lenses as many claimed, a lousy sensor will never make up for it, esp when the light goes down.

I would agree lenses are good and strong point of MFT but to be honest, other than a handful ones, which are really good quality ones and affordable to really own?

Sony within a span of just 1yr has made major leaps and bounds in their nex

I am not trying to put down mFT, but just to speak from a point of view as a person who wish to take nicer photos, and not just by owning a tech gadget that get replaced every 6mths!!!

If u just want to take better photos just be a better photographer. Gear does not matter. It only matters to gear heads or people who just want the best n latest.

 

[Oly5050]

Yes. I appreciate what MFT is now and know the lenses are of good quality, maybe not so for 14-42 to certain extent.

What i admire abt Sony is at least within short period of time, they can produce what people want and not what they seem right. It took olympus 3yrs to figure out people need built in flash, faster af and fast primes.

Thats bec sony is not a true camera maker. I dun appreciate the handling of the nex. Neither do their design turn me on.

Olympus has been making cameras for decades n they have a heritage that sony does not. They must hv a reason why the din have AF light n onboard flash. Just like the leica m9 does not have it too. Just like the 5d mark 2 or the d700 or the Idsmark3. They may hv reasons for not including it. And i m sure its not bec they hv not figured it out yet.

 

[Snapperbox]

Thats bec sony is not a true camera maker. I dun appreciate the handling of the nex. Neither do their design turn me on.

Olympus has been making cameras for decades n they have a heritage that sony does not. They must hv a reason why the din have AF light n onboard flash. Just like the leica m9 does not have it too. Just like the 5d mark 2 or the d700 or the Idsmark3. They may hv reasons for not including it. And i m sure its not bec they hv not figured it out yet.

I know but sad to be truth, nowadays, having the know-how, heritage or experience does not mean one can survive in the industry.

See what happened to Konica-Minolta, Ericsson, Motorola, Siemens, Sanyo......they have been the forefront runners in their own industry, much respected and famous in their own rights. Now, they are relegated to doing business not related to their core business as they had to sell them off in order not to pull the whole company down.

Newcomers like Sony, Apple, Google, Panasonic are all well know for their own products, like walkmans to computers, mouse, washing machines, search engines etc, but see how much they have grown and expanded into different industries. In business world, you do not need to know how or have the heritage as all these can be bought by money. It's reality and its something these companies has to face it in order to remain in the market.

It's to produce what customers want and not what the R&D designers want. At the end of the day, if it doesn't sell, the company has no revenue to remain relevant. We certainly hope so all these heritage can be kept, but as we are not part of them, we can't say anything.

Time will tell if who will prevail. People did not have the slightest idea that Apple can be the most powerful phone makers in the 20th century.....so anything can happen, never say never.

 

[MichaelLee]

ep3+12mm iso 800 seems no match for nex+16mm iso1600. but then, noise for me is not the most criteria.

You bought the Nex5N and twin kit lens..? I am sure Nex5n would beat EP3 on high ISO. noise/high ISO not a concern for me, indeed I wish the cam has IS050. I have tested NEX16mm before, that looks unpromising. Corner is rather soft.

I expect some review from you on the image IQ EP3+12m f2 vs Nex5N + 16mm f2.8

Btw, I am rather looking forward Samsung NX200 + 16mm f2.4 (US$399). Given it is APS-C sensor, and effective range at 24mm, it would be a more fair comparison NX200 vs Nex5N.

 

[cannedpineapples]

Actually question about ISO, why the EP3 can only go down to ISO 200, no ISO 100 or 80 or 50?

 

[Oly5050]

I know but sad to be truth, nowadays, having the know-how, heritage or experience does not mean one can survive in the industry.

See what happened to Konica-Minolta, Ericsson, Motorola, Siemens, Sanyo......they have been the forefront runners in their own industry, much respected and famous in their own rights. Now, they are relegated to doing business not related to their core business as they had to sell them off in order not to pull the whole company down.

Newcomers like Sony, Apple, Google, Panasonic are all well know for their own products, like walkmans to computers, mouse, washing machines, search engines etc, but see how much they have grown and expanded into different industries. In business world, you do not need to know how or have the heritage as all these can be bought by money. It's reality and its something these companies has to face it in order to remain in the market.

It's to produce what customers want and not what the R&D designers want. At the end of the day, if it doesn't sell, the company has no revenue to remain relevant. We certainly hope so all these heritage can be kept, but as we are not part of them, we can't say anything.

Time will tell if who will prevail. People did not have the slightest idea that Apple can be the most powerful phone makers in the 20th century.....so anything can happen, never say never.

Nobody said that having heritage will allow them to survive. Im just saying that if anyone knows how to make cameras, it is olympus. Olympus has been making cameras for a long time. Basically it is a camera for photographers made by photographers. Olympus is a bit like Apple in that they like to innovate and break new ground unlike Leica. They are continually trying to improve user experience n make photography easy taking out the tedium. That is where jpeg engines, IBIS, SSWF, n compact sizes come in. They r also not afraid to do what is necessary.
In addition they always make decisions for their bottom lines. That is why they will definitely go where the money is. And the money is in m4/3 now. I would not compare Olympus to Konica-Minolta, Ericsson, Motorola, Siemens, Sanyo. In fact they r the opposite. They were neither giants or forerunner and neither were they set in their old way of business. If they did there would be no 4/3 n no m4/3.

 

[tsammyc]

You bought the Nex5N and twin kit lens..? I am sure Nex5n would beat EP3 on high ISO. noise/high ISO not a concern for me, indeed I wish the cam has IS050.

Actually, the NEX5N uses the Sony Exmor sensor found in the K5 & D7000, which is far beyond all other APS-C sensors in dynamic range at LOW ISO. We shouldn't even be comparing with M43 at all.

 

[tsammyc]

Actually question about ISO, why the EP3 can only go down to ISO 200, no ISO 100 or 80 or 50?

Probably limitation of the sensor. I suspect that the G3 sensor, which does ISO 160, is going to become standard on most M43 cameras soon. It will be a good upgrade for M43. On high ISO, the G3 and Leica 1.4, gives a good platform for available light photography.

 

[paisatge]

What about the shutter noise? Is the NEX 5N louder than the E-P3? Anyone?

 

[tsammyc]

But the TS wants something more akin to 'small and seamless' (which is why his canon DSLR is gone now). The m43 with its smaller-footprint native lineup (which was the whole point of 4/3 in the first place) will probably suit his needs well there. Both m43 nor Nex7 will fit his criteria of 'IQ not crap', and since he's liquidated all his Canon gear adapted lenses are not an issue.

So he can probably just go for smaller. That's m43.

It depends on how small and seamless. Neither M43 or NEX fit in the pocket and you need a small case or fanny pack for either. Both M43 and NEX are 'IQ not crap', but only NEX has the ability to duplicate or improve on the dynamic range and high ISO of his Canon, assuming he cares.

NEX 7 may have ability to reach current full frame cameras in detail resolution according to Steve Huff and has the most advanced EVF ever built. With this, you are not only going smaller, but you are also getting better than ever before. As long as you are willing to use peaking manual focus, you can also use this camera perfectly with the best Leica, Nikon, Pentax and Canon lenses. These are not just 'IQ not crap' lenses, but the best lenses ever crafted my mankind. Together with the top lenses, the NEX 7 will probably be among the best tools in the world to produce images. Whether you have the skill to use is it another question....

 

[wonglp]

You bought the Nex5N and twin kit lens..? I am sure Nex5n would beat EP3 on high ISO. noise/high ISO not a concern for me, indeed I wish the cam has IS050. I have tested NEX16mm before, that looks unpromising. Corner is rather soft.

I expect some review from you on the image IQ EP3+12m f2 vs Nex5N + 16mm f2.8

Btw, I am rather looking forward Samsung NX200 + 16mm f2.4 (US$399). Given it is APS-C sensor, and effective range at 24mm, it would be a more fair comparison NX200 vs Nex5N.

ya, got it ytd. will do so if can find some time..true that 12mm is not true comparison as it's HG vs cheaper optics, i'm more interested to see the same 24mm focal length, how far is that from 16, and is there a sweet spot for that 16mm by stop down Don't foresee myself getting the kit/18-200 as it's just too bulky, but the pancake can be handy.

that's very aggressive price for Samsung, i love competition! i tried nx100 before but the colors is off for me, hopefully nx200 can catch up on that.

 

[wonglp]

It depends on how small and seamless. Neither M43 or NEX fit in the pocket and you need a small case or fanny pack for either. Both M43 and NEX are 'IQ not crap', but only NEX has the ability to duplicate or improve on the dynamic range and high ISO of his Canon, assuming he cares.

NEX 7 may have ability to reach current full frame cameras in detail resolution according to Steve Huff and has the most advanced EVF ever built. With this, you are not only going smaller, but you are also getting better than ever before. As long as you are willing to use peaking manual focus, you can also use this camera perfectly with the best Leica, Nikon, Pentax and Canon lenses. These are not just 'IQ not crap' lenses, but the best lenses ever crafted my mankind. Together with the top lenses, the NEX 7 will probably be among the best tools in the world to produce images. Whether you have the skill to use is it another question....

Good pts, really, though alot here may not want to venture into manual lenses. The pentax Q though looks very pocketable. To TS, I suppose the points made by folks here probably can help TS make some conclusion. Still I think there's no clear best system, it's more of which system better suit his needs, and he should know best himself. If not, I suppose a test at a store can also help determine his needs

 

[wonglp]

What about the shutter noise? Is the NEX 5N louder than the E-P3? Anyone?

equally loud/soft whichever u categorize ep3. something new i realize u can turn off AF confirm beep on Nex 5n, like!

 

[Gulliver]

I would think so its not a limitation to come out with small lenses on apsc. If Samsung can have pancake lenses for their NX series and if Pentax can have small pancakes lenses as well, i dun see why its not possible.

My take is whether the manufacturer is willing to do the lens compensation on the lens itself or thru software processing in their cameras as we all know by having these smaller lenses means compromise would have to be made.

By the way, i keep seeing complaining abt lens size is the disadvantage of nex system, but as far as my eyes and hands can tell, their 18-55 is same size as panny current 14-42 and same length as olympus 14-42 when extended. Their 16mm pancake is smaller than 20/1.7 and weigh less as well.

The upcoming zeiss 24/1.8 is although longer (almost similar to 14-42) but its diameter is smaller and also weighs lighter than Leica 25/1.4 m4/3.

I just dun understand all the rants abt nex lenses size and weight.

Probably nex cameras are really small, thats why people hve impressions that their lenses are big.

Well, that is why I didn't mentioned the comparison of 18-55 to the current Panny 14-42 but instead of Upcoming Panny X 14-42. As for the 20mm 1.7, it was meant to be fast. I'm sure Sony would not be able to make the 16mm at similiar size if it were to acquire the same aperture. Regardless how you see it, focal to focal comparison, aperture to aperture as it must be determine by the longest side of the sensor.

 

[Agrivar]

Some of these Sony fanboys just don't want to see the reality. As has been said before, the lenses are 2 times heavier than the m4/3 equivalent and almost 1/2-1/3 longer and wider. Aps-c sensor and mount circle cannot be changed and it's physics. Ie the lenses will be as large as standard Dslr aps-c lenses from nikon/canon/sigma etc. M4/3 sensor and image/mount is much smaller with comparable iq at lower ISOs. So that means the m4/3 lenses WILL always be smaller and lighter.

In the end, shoot and use what is comfortable to you. No point bashing other systems. Use and buy what you are happy with.. Photography is about producing images and it's about creativity. It's not a gear comparision. I know folks who can shoot great photos with an iPhone and others shoot crap photos with a Leica..