E-330 horizontal banding and lackadaisical Oly support

[wind30]

regarding the service quality, here is my experience with oly service center.

1) 30 March, send in E330 for bad LCD issue
2) 5th Arpil got back my camera from service center. Check on the spot, LCD ok. Bring home. Then find they mount the live view A sensor out of alignment. The AF red dot confirmation is not in the center. Not so previously, I think.
3) Went down service center on 7th April. Front desk staff very apolegetic and promised me that this will be an urgent job and writes on the slip asking technician to call me
4) 9th April call Oly center as no one called me. Operator says will ask technician to call me back. Nobdy called me back
5) 10th April called again and gets trasfered to technician. Technician says will take time.... probably gets done on Friday which is one week. So much for urgent case.
6) 13th April Technician called says camera repaired but want to do more test. Promised me to call me on Monday, 16th April and sent it to me by courier.
7 ) 16th April monday, nobody called.
8 ) 17th April called up olympus and they say camera ready and couriered it to my place at night.
9) camera repaired now and looks good.

Above is just my experience for fellow oly user's reference.

 

[Blu-By-U]

Is it still within the warranty? Any charges?

 

[wind30]

no charges. My camera is 3 months old.

Terrible exprience? Not really as the bottomline is my camera came back fixed with no issues (after 2 trips) just not very efficient.

Anyway I just post my factual experience with the service center.

 

[Blu-By-U]

Got the camera back. So is the banding...it's still there. No change. :cry:

 

[microcosm]

Got the camera back. So is the banding...it's still there. No change. :cry:

So sorry to hear this happening in Oly MY. They are really doing a bad job and at PR work.

 

[Kid Shotter]

How is th banding??Milder or worse??

 

[Blu-By-U]

As mentioned, no change. It may even be worst as I saw it in under exposed shots at ISO800.

 

[microcosm]

As mentioned, no change. It may even be worst as I saw it in under exposed shots at ISO800.

Looks like you are on your way to a E-510, with the "blessings" of the OLY MY guys... start preparing by sending emails to Japan and HK office. And point them to this thread if they need a reference on how much bad publicity this is generating.

 

[Blu-By-U]

They know about this thread...and all the others that I have started on this issue in other forums. DPreview, Fourthirdssystems, Photomalaysia, Fourthirdphoto and here. I have given them all the links.

Oh yes, judging from all the discussion so far, I may skip the E-510 in favor of the older E-330. Banding issue is only on a small number of cameras so far. So with the launch of the new cameras, the older may drop as seen in the US market. Let it trickle down here...then I test before buying...pick the one with the least or no banding.

 

[cjtune]

Oh yes, judging from all the discussion so far, I may skip the E-510 in favor of the older E-330. Banding issue is only on a small number of cameras so far. So with the launch of the new cameras, the older may drop as seen in the US market. Let it trickle down here...then I test before buying...pick the one with the least or no banding.

If I were to set a business in the future, I would wish for customers like you!
Good luck on the bargain hunting for your 2nd E-330 body. You might want to liase with Wind30. I thought I saw his E-330 being put up for sale at the B&S section, along with quite a number of his other Oly stuff (which you may already have).

 

[Blu-By-U]

Me wanna wait for the NEW sets to drop then only buy. As of now I am keeping my mind open for the new E-510...test first then decide.

 

[cjtune]

Time to resurrect a dead horse and to show-off my ceiling fan again...

These are two pictures to compare the banding severity of the new E-510 with the older E-330 where the image defect was first seen for NMOS/Live-MOS sensors:

E-330, taken at ISO1600 (nominal; actual: ISO2000 according to DPReview), EV -2.
Full JPEG here: http://www.box.net/shared/jvfp7b71dn

E-510, taken at ISO1600 (nominal; actual: ISO1250 according to DPReview), EV -2.
Full JPEG here: http://www.box.net/shared/k58k99ahrl

The ORF file for the E-510's shot above is available here: http://www.filecrunch.com/file/~ytohte

It would seem that both pictures show an equal level of severity of banding between my E-510 and my 'mildy-banding' E-330. I'm not sure if there are any corner-case 'badly-banding' E-510's that have found its way past the factory quality-control stations. However, given that the actual ISO rating for the nominally ISO 1600 sensitivity setting is ISO 1250 and not really ISO 1600 as reported by some reviewer, and is lower than the E-330's actual "ISO 1600 setting" sensitivity of ISO 2000, it infers that the E-510 may be worse-off than the E-330. Both camera's ISO 1600 sensitivities get a "usable when desperate" rating from me, but with the E-510, there is at least Image Stabilisation which works great in helping to avoid the need of using ISO1600 in the first place (except for low-light action shots and you don't want subject motion blur). However, to avoid the bands, some have suggested deliberately over-exposing ISO1600 shots. This technique may be limited by the 0.7 EV deficit of the E-510's highlights dynamic range vs the E-330 (and most other DSLRs) but I have not tried it enough to comment on it yet.

The E-510 has a higher photosites density than the E-330 and so may be more susceptible to noise bands, hence the tuning-down of the nominal ISO1600 sensitivity setting to ISO1250. I haven't really been bothered by the lack of 0.3EV's worth of a shutter speed but that there gives me a feeling that I've been short-changed a bit by Olympus... more so when you try and think of any possible logical reason as to why they've removed the 0.3EV steps for the ISO sensitivity level adjustments on the E-410 and E-510.

There are also anecdotal reports that the E-410's high ISO performance is noticeably better than that of the E-510's. Not sure if anybody can put up quantitative data on this (well, just some pictures at controlled settings will do), but it would be no surprise as the E-510's sensor is bound by the Image Stabilisation servo mechanisms and motors which as electronic/electrical devices themselves add some amount of electrical interference that can be readily picked up by a perked-up sensor.

 

[Blu-By-U]

Can I say then that banding is inherit problem in all NMOS?:dunno:

 

[wind30]

cjtune,

do you have both the E330 and E510 together? Can you test their highlight range if possible fo me? is shoot something (sky) in RAW and overexpose it and try to recover in by developing at -1eV etc.

Does the E330 performs significantly better? There is some threads on dpreview, regarding magenta cast, etc.

Can't really decide if I should get the E510. What are your thoughts on the adv of the E510 over the E330?

 

[cjtune]

cjtune,

do you have both the E330 and E510 together? Can you test their highlight range if possible fo me? is shoot something (sky) in RAW and overexpose it and try to recover in by developing at -1eV etc.

Does the E330 performs significantly better? There is some threads on dpreview, regarding magenta cast, etc.

Can't really decide if I should get the E510. What are your thoughts on the adv of the E510 over the E330?

Okies, I will try the shootout between the E-330 and E-510 for the upper highlight dynamic range limit when I am freer later this week or the next, but I doubt the review sites' reports are inaccurate about this limitation. The magenta cast is when you try to push beyond the dynamic range of the E-510 via RAW development. Shouldn't appear in JPEGs straight from camera, and it should be considered good already even with the magenta cast as normally, the blown regions would be irrecoverable otherwise.

Generally, I needed a better 'evening time' and sniping (I use the 50-200mm quite often) camera. Lacking excellent high ISO performance, the IS was the deal-breaker for me. I was also taken over by the general grain quality of the E-510's images even when the noise filter is turned off. Looks very film-like, like what others have noted.

 

[cjtune]

Can I say then that banding is inherit problem in all NMOS?:dunno:

Probably so, and that Olympus/Panasonic didn't have enough time to address it fully even with the delay in E-410, E-510 releases. Well, at least it ain't like the crazy diagonal stripes that we both had last time in the E-330. The horizontal bands are still annoying, nevertheless.

 

[Blu-By-U]

I will hold out getting the new Es till much much later. Weatherproof, IS and articulated LCD is most likely my area of focus in my replacement camera. As of now, E-330 is my current 2nd wife. Hopefully by then Oly would be able to solve this banding issue.

 

[tomcat]

Can I say then that banding is inherit problem in all NMOS?:dunno:

Are we back to the same question again? :dunno:

If anyone would just google something like 'DSLR banding problems', they would immediately get responses that would indicate that such banding problems are not the copyright of NMOS sensors and affect DSLRs of famous makes that are far more expensive than our cheapo Oly DSLRs and which do not use NMOS sensors.

Nikon even have an FAQ on this problem.
http://support.nikontech.com/cgi-bin/nikonusa.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=13872
Their write-up would appear to fit to-a-T the symptoms experienced by some Oly users.

While it may be true that Olympus has been ignoring the existence of such a problem with their DSLRs, it should be noted that even though Nikon had openly acknowledged the problem, they have never said that they are able to produce a camera free of banding problems or that they could completely eliminate banding problems in any affected cameras brought in to them for checking and servicing.... they 'will optimize the camera’s image output level, thereby reducing visible banding to a minimal level'.

To them, 'the digital imaging artifact commonly known as banding can, in specific and unusual conditions, such as extreme exposure and/or exposure compensation settings and high contrast scenes, become visible'.... ie it is normal in digital imaging. :think:

 

[Blu-By-U]

ok ok Uncle Tomcat. point noted. how is it then that this banding is not noticeable on the E-500?

 

[VSonic06]

Can I say then that banding is inherit problem in all NMOS?:dunno:

No you're not allowed to say that here :nono: The Oly vigilante police will hunt you down and talk you to death :bsmilie: