[ Discuss ] EP5 vs GX7. Or EM5?

[keithwee]

Panny can build it but Olympus can not accept it. The 7-14 doesn't seem to work as well on Oly bodies. Could it be that Oly messed with the lens correction for competitive reasons with their 9-18?

well...

The 9-18 has merits over the 7-14 like it CAN accept filters, better than decent IQ and that its seriously the smallest UWA lens I have seen for its FL while the 7-14's merits r in obviously its wider, sharper and runs a constant aperture. They are both UWAs but cater to different needs and as such I wouldn't feel that Oly needs to do anything shady or what to up the competitiveness of its own lenses.

I'm actually glad that within MFT I can choose between models instead of being forced to buy the 1 and only 1 avail model.

For a manufacturer of quality glass of the likes of its SHG class, to say that Oly may have messed w/ the lens correction etc or Panny can build while Oly can't accept... eh.. seriously..oh come on.

 

[tsammyc]

For a manufacturer of quality glass of the likes of its SHG class, to say that Oly may have messed w/ the lens correction etc or Panny can build while Oly can't accept... eh.. seriously..oh come on.

Ah... then "It was a honest mistake, let's move on"...

 

[keithwee]

Ah... then "It was a honest mistake, let's move on"...

no prob. let's move on.

Do agree with your point on the P7-14 not working to its optimum on Oly bodies though. The issue of non-CA correction of Pana lenses on Oly bodies is something I hope Oly can work on one of these days.

 

[Agrivar]

How not to love the Red Dot... you guys are living on one.

Waa. I want to buy red dot

 

[Agrivar]

no prob. let's move on. Do agree with your point on the P7-14 not working to its optimum on Oly bodies though. The issue of non-CA correction of Pana lenses on Oly bodies is something I hope Oly can work on one of these days.

How about the em1? It was supposed to correct ca in panny lenses...

 

[microcosm]

Panny can build it but Olympus can not accept it. The 7-14 doesn't seem to work as well on Oly bodies. Could it be that Oly messed with the lens correction for competitive reasons with their 9-18?

Quite unlikely. To be honest, even with the "correction" in Panasonic bodies, if you look carefully and compare A-B, (with the ZD 7-14mm) you can see that the Panasonic bodies merely does CA-correction and tune down purple. They are still there, just not purple anymore. Whereas the ZD7-14mm does not have that flaring problem, just because better glass was used and the internal chassis design is superior, which also means more $$$.

 

[microcosm]

Waa. I want to buy red dot

You very rich hor... :think:

 

[microcosm]

How about the em1? It was supposed to correct ca in panny lenses...

Correcting CA (as mentioned above) is merely a process which removes purplish fringe and artifact, but the internal reflection (due to lower quality glass used) is still there. Still a no win situation. Sigh... When oh when will the SHG appear again in MZD form? But then again, users will cry foul and scream at the prices for SHG glass. Never understood why. Those who have used SHG glass will know what quality is.

 

[microcosm]

Ah... then "It was a honest mistake, let's move on"...

oppsss... didn't see this when I replied... sorry. Though you did raise a good point.

Personally, I think Panasonic will not use the same high quality lenses Olympus would in their lenses because Panasonic is a big big company and profit margins is everything, especially when their parent company are looking at P&L at the end of every quarter. I always feel that Panasonic products will hardly be "value for money"... though they have superior video implementation. To think of Olympus catching up is like Cherry QQ wanting to better BMW in 10 years. It is just not quite possible. Panasonic/Sony are broadcast kings. They have all sorts of very talented people working on video products while Olympus can only hopefully source something from the Sony camp, but even Sony will not want Olympus (who is already a king for stills, their OOC jpeg is second to none) to catch up in the video arena.

ps. Leica's low end glass (OEM) can be very low end. So don't be fooled by all-Leica-means-good marketing hype. Only when they slap on the whatever-cron name at the end of the lenses, that is where the game changes. Something that I have noticed.

 

[Agrivar]

oppsss... didn't see this when I replied... sorry. Though you did raise a good point. Personally, I think Panasonic will not use the same high quality lenses Olympus would in their lenses because Panasonic is a big big company and profit margins is everything, especially when their parent company are looking at P&L at the end of every quarter. I always feel that Panasonic products will hardly be "value for money"... though they have superior video implementation. To think of Olympus catching up is like Cherry QQ wanting to better BMW in 10 years. It is just not quite possible. Panasonic/Sony are broadcast kings. They have all sorts of very talented people working on video products while Olympus can only hopefully source something from the Sony camp, but even Sony will not want Olympus (who is already a king for stills, their OOC jpeg is second to none) to catch up in the video arena. ps. Leica's low end glass (OEM) can be very low end. So don't be fooled by all-Leica-means-good marketing hype. Only when they slap on the whatever-cron name at the end of the lenses, that is where the game changes. Something that I have noticed.

Oly should just pay panny or sony for their video codec. Case closed. Then EM1 will be the best cam for stills and video with kick ass ibis.

 

[microcosm]

Oly should just pay panny or sony for their video codec. Case closed. Then EM1 will be the best cam for stills and video with kick ass ibis.

That won't work either. Panasonic and Sony will rather burn their codes for their codec than to let another company gain market domination. Hmm... Olympus do have people in their company that work on moving images, just that their focus is on medical (you know, when docs stick stuff in you and they need to see the details in 4k and 8k resolution to continue with the operation?) If those gurus can be taken out and work on the Oly video implementation, it would be fantastic.

Wait, that won't work either... Panasonic and Sony have the whole video eco-system... Olympus just have stuff they stick into human bodies.

It is a no-win situation it seems. hmmm....

 

[keithwee]

Oly should just pay panny or sony for their video codec. Case closed. Then EM1 will be the best cam for stills and video with kick ass ibis.

I'll be surprised if that happens. Panny and Sony must have invested good money into their own codes and they have all the resources to turn all these into market products and it just doesn't seem possible they will sell this know-how or that Oly can afford to pay for them. The only likelihood sadly is probably a takeover like what Microsoft did to Nokia (well, I'm looking forward to indestructible smart phones haha).

 

[NazgulKing]

Correcting CA (as mentioned above) is merely a process which removes purplish fringe and artifact, but the internal reflection (due to lower quality glass used) is still there. Still a no win situation. Sigh... When oh when will the SHG appear again in MZD form? But then again, users will cry foul and scream at the prices for SHG glass. Never understood why. Those who have used SHG glass will know what quality is.

Internal reflection is due to coatings? That lens hasn't gotten Panasonic's nano coating treatment yet. It probably will at some point.

 

[microcosm]

Internal reflection is due to coatings? That lens hasn't gotten Panasonic's nano coating treatment yet. It probably will at some point.

It gets quite complicated. Even though I sat down with a lens maker, he got so technical that I was totally lost and could not keep up... coatings, incompatible lens, combination of lenses used, polishing methods and finishing, internal barrel finishing, etc. Any one of these things can contribute to the problem. Sometimes I wonder why Olympus is taking so long to release a better-than-9-18mm-lens, and I guess Tatsuno have their reputation to protect, so they aren't going to just release a lens and get market bashing of their pride.

 

[NazgulKing]

It gets quite complicated. Even though I sat down with a lens maker, he got so technical that I was totally lost and could not keep up... coatings, incompatible lens, combination of lenses used, polishing methods and finishing, internal barrel finishing, etc. Any one of these things can contribute to the problem. Sometimes I wonder why Olympus is taking so long to release a better-than-9-18mm-lens, and I guess Tatsuno have their reputation to protect, so they aren't going to just release a lens and get market bashing of their pride.

Dielectric coatings can mitigate internal reflections by a substantial bit. Minimizing the power of the individual elements help because it reduces the radius of curvature, but that means more elements are required as a whole and might lead to other things to manage like distortion etc. etc. and transmission losses etc. etc. Other things like internal baffling can help but it's best you get rid of them from the very start. The rest really is a case of quality control.

I think ultimately, when Panasonic designed the lens, they designed it from the perspective of a lens that will give them the best performance-price margin-ease of manufacture ratio possible. Olympus probably can do better but well... they are taking forever... Though I reckon they'd charge for it. Ultra wide zooms are expensive for a good reason.

 

[wonglp]

There was quite a bit of talk on mu-43.com about the infamous P7-14 purple blob, and it seems to point to Sony sensor. and there's a apparently a "fix" too. Lens rear filter holder + wratten pale yellow filter.
http://www.mu-43.com/showthread.php?t=45013&page=7
at times the purple blob can be nice too, i.e. if used creatively hahaha

 

[NazgulKing]

There was quite a bit of talk on mu-43.com about the infamous P7-14 purple blob, and it seems to point to Sony sensor. and there's a apparently a "fix" too. Lens rear filter holder + wratten pale yellow filter.
http://www.mu-43.com/showthread.php?t=45013&page=7
at times the purple blob can be nice too, i.e. if used creatively hahaha

Sounds like reflections off the sensor surface....

 

[microcosm]

Whatever the real reason behind the dread "invasion of purple aliens on Mount Olympus", let's hope some genius finds a solution, software/hardware to bring back the joy of shooting with a UWA.

 

[wonglp]

Whatever the real reason behind the dread "invasion of purple aliens on Mount Olympus", let's hope some genius finds a solution, software/hardware to bring back the joy of shooting with a UWA.

already found it seems, but i haven't try. the link i shared right down to the part number haha

 

[keithwee]

Whatever the real reason behind the dread "invasion of purple aliens on Mount Olympus", let's hope some genius finds a solution, software/hardware to bring back the joy of shooting with a UWA.

Actually there r times where I find the purple friends nice, especially when using them together with Art filters. Technically it may not be optimum but creatively I do like how they turn out at times. Sometimes it's just making the best of what we have.