[ Discuss ] EP5 vs GX7. Or EM5?

[nickgoh6]

i think DPReview were traumatized enough by the ensuing debacle with the EP5 they didn't want to do anything that might offend the GX7 fanboys haha. To put it in perspective, it hasn't been easy for them to ignore / answer the comments when you have other very or even much more experienced reviewers who found no such issues and Oly has issued no reply too which doesn't help.

End of the day, each camera has its strengths and weaknesses and its not about putting another model down or praising another model. For example, I'm sticking to my EP5 which has gone thru Annapurna with me while the GX7 was on my to sell list within a week cause the built-in viewfinder which some find indispensable just didn't work for me among other issues that it couldn't take long exposures which is very important to me.

chill, sunset at a beach at Kathmandu

I never trust DPReview and only read Ming Thein's recommendations nowadays. This shutter shake issue on EP5 is a joke - even people who has never own or use the camera start babbling about the 'shutter issue' after reading such reviews. Blurred images can be caused by reasons as simple as settings or not so good ibis like the one in EPL5. The mechanism inside strike too hard and the effect on the sensor will be felt in a small and light bodies like Pen Lites.

The one thing I hate about Oly is that you can only get a built in EVF or Flash and not both. Its just so freaking troublesome and ugly to take in/out an EVF or flash that is protruding so high up.

The tillable EVF on the GX7 is also a joke. I cannot figure out in what kind of situation you will tilt the EVF. A tilt screen will do a better job. The ibis also not good. Panny has created another half fark product with the GX7 like their compacts which uses top notch Leica lens but with small and outdated sensors.

 

[spidey89]

You'd be surprised, I got one use a tilting evf, in fact, I bought the VA-1 a long time ago despite having live view simple because there is a lag and it sucks up my power, these days, due yo the method to remove the D3's viewfinder, I just shoot. Blind, but given the chance I'd opt for an angle finder for those lower than my eye level shots

 

[wonglp]

I never trust DPReview and only read Ming Thein's recommendations nowadays. This shutter shake issue on EP5 is a joke - even people who has never own or use the camera start babbling about the 'shutter issue' after reading such reviews. Blurred images can be caused by reasons as simple as settings or not so good ibis like the one in EPL5. The mechanism inside strike too hard and the effect on the sensor will be felt in a small and light bodies like Pen Lites.

The one thing I hate about Oly is that you can only get a built in EVF or Flash and not both. Its just so freaking troublesome and ugly to take in/out an EVF or flash that is protruding so high up.

The tillable EVF on the GX7 is also a joke. I cannot figure out in what kind of situation you will tilt the EVF. A tilt screen will do a better job. The ibis also not good. Panny has created another half fark product with the GX7 like their compacts which uses top notch Leica lens but with small and outdated sensors.

Well, there's EM5 or EM1 if u find the design for EP5 design not good to use both Flash & EVF, and also Panasonic bodies of G5,GH3, GX7. Tiltable EVF allows u to keep the form factor of GX7 easy to carry around unlike the VF4 on EP5, and certainly I use the tilt EVF on bright daylight alot than a tilt screen. As for sensor size, what do u mean by "small"?

 

[nickgoh6]

Well, there's EM5 or EM1 if u find the design for EP5 design not good to use both Flash & EVF, and also Panasonic bodies of G5,GH3, GX7. Tiltable EVF allows u to keep the form factor of GX7 easy to carry around unlike the VF4 on EP5, and certainly I use the tilt EVF on bright daylight alot than a tilt screen. As for sensor size, what do u mean by "small"?

I have the EM1 and EP5 but simply does not like to carry the external flash and Evf around. Evf is useful but the vf4 is simply too big

Look at the Panny LX7. The leica lens is probably the best lens you can ever find in a compact but the sensor is only a 1/1.7 that was used 2 generations ago. Compare it with the Sony RX100 which is already in mk2 and it's using a backlit 1 inch sensor

 

[wonglp]

I have the EM1 and EP5 but simply does not like to carry the external flash and Evf around. Evf is useful but the vf4 is simply too big

Look at the Panny LX7. The leica lens is probably the best lens you can ever find in a compact but the sensor is only a 1/1.7 that was used 2 generations ago. Compare it with the Sony RX100 which is already in mk2 and it's using a backlit 1 inch sensor

Just find it a little contradicting when u mention "does not like to carry the external flash" vs earlier post "you can only get a built in EVF or Flash and not both". anyways, since u have both EM1 & EP5 i suppose u know they are different cameras for different target photographers. Sony does have a winning compact with Rx100, though I certainly think Panasonic GX7 is a very capable & versatile camera which has pretty much everything I would need from a daily camera (compact . form, grip, EVF, tilt screen, IBIS, fast AF), some areas it may lose out to EP5, some it wins.

 

[seafood]

I never trust DPReview .......

The one thing I hate about Oly is that you can only get a built in EVF or Flash and not both. Its just so freaking troublesome and ugly to take in/out an EVF or flash that is protruding so high up.

The tillable EVF on the GX7 is also a joke. I cannot figure out in what kind of situation you will tilt the EVF. A tilt screen will do a better job. The ibis also not good. Panny has created another half fark product with the GX7 like their compacts which uses top notch Leica lens but with small and outdated sensors.

I still read DPREVIEW. That's about it. It does keep up with the trends though some reviews do leave me scratching my head.

I do agree with you with regards the GX7's EVF.

The EP5 does still seems like a work-in-progress product but in general it has most of the basics right, ESP the OOC jpgs.

 

[Agrivar]

Wow. This thread getting slightly bitter with all the different points of view. All ok as long as we don't go saying things like "fark" etc. Everyone has a choice. Everyone has different needs. As long as we explain why those needs are relevant to us and not put too much emotion into it, then it becomes helpful to others trying to make buying decisions.

Let's keep it civil and not too trolling like some sony fanboys who think the 1" sensor in the rx100 is the best thing since sliced bread.

You do trade off size of lens and FL reach for that bigger sensor. There's still a place for 1/1.7" compacts like LF1 (longer reach, built in evf), LX7 (much brighter lens), Canon S120 etc.

I personally prefer the gx7. That rangefinder style with built in EVF is a killer. Ibis not so good is ok with me as I use panny tele lenses. For primes it's good enough. My take is that the GM1 will be the best seller for m4/3 as it embodies the best of m4/3. Small. Light. Good IQ. Em1 will outsell gh3 and em5

 

[keithwee]

I never trust DPReview and only read Ming Thein's recommendations nowadays. This shutter shake issue on EP5 is a joke - even people who has never own or use the camera start babbling about the 'shutter issue' after reading such reviews. Blurred images can be caused by reasons as simple as settings or not so good ibis like the one in EPL5. The mechanism inside strike too hard and the effect on the sensor will be felt in a small and light bodies like Pen Lites. The one thing I hate about Oly is that you can only get a built in EVF or Flash and not both. Its just so freaking troublesome and ugly to take in/out an EVF or flash that is protruding so high up. The tillable EVF on the GX7 is also a joke. I cannot figure out in what kind of situation you will tilt the EVF. A tilt screen will do a better job. The ibis also not good. Panny has created another half fark product with the GX7 like their compacts which uses top notch Leica lens but with small and outdated sensors.

No comments abt DPreview other than I see reviews as a guide simply and it's our user experiences & recommendations that matter most end of the day; hence why the need of communities like Clubsnap. DXO's also kinda controversial but well, they do provide some sort of a guide end of the day.

EM1 , EP5 and GX7 are different in that they cater to diff markets. As an owner of the EM1 and EP5 , I'm sure u understand this. Between the GX7 and EP5, some points EP5 wins ; some points GX7 wins but end of the day , both are more than decent cameras able to give APS-C bodies a run for their money even both have their quirks.

The EM-1 by all rights is an improvement over the EP5 & GX7 in quite a few areas but I'm holding out buying it simply because I'm not in the pro user league and can't afford shelling out $2k for a body.

 

[keithwee]

Let's keep it civil and not too trolling like some sony fanboys who think the 1" sensor in the rx100 is the best thing since sliced bread. You do trade off size of lens and FL reach for that bigger sensor. There's still a place for 1/1.7" compacts like LF1 (longer reach, built in evf), LX7 (much brighter lens), Canon S120 etc. stylus 1, etc.

Good point. I'm one of those who sold the RX100ii for the DLux 6 even though on paper the RX should beat the DLux 6 flat.

I found the RX too slow at f4.9 compared to the DLux's f2.3 at the telephoto end and the DLux's handling more user friendly for me while the x20's OVF is something I miss a lot.

The RX is a winner from Sony but end of the day it just didn't work for me. It's a combination of factors not just sensor size that creates an overall winner.

 

[tsammyc]

The RX100 is the best thing since sliced bread ;p but it depends on what you like. For me, when I travel, I take a lot of photos of buildings, landscape, night scenes etc, so I like wide dynamic range and high ISO capability in a pocketable camera. Sharp photo's of family on holiday, my iPhone does a good job already.

But I'm not just a Sony fanboy, I'm also a M43 fanboy. I like my E-M5, although I haven't loved it because of the tiny rubbery buttons and the difficulty doing playback in the EVF. The E-M1 almost fixed all that, but after I grabbed one with the 12-40 lens mounted, it was so big and heavy that I knew that its not for me. I went from a Pentax DSLR to mirrorless to cut down on size and weight, while maintaining image quality. The E-M1 makes me feel like I'm using my Pentax K5 again and going back a few years. The E-M1 is better than the K5, but the K5 was already too good for me.

The GX7 is currently my favorite imperfect camera. I started photography with Olympus film rangefinders, so the rangefinder look is more appealing than the OMD. But I need an EVF because of Hyperopia and have never gotten used to composing with a LCD (I'm still amazed that so many people shoot with iPads these days as well). I was extremely disappointed when the E-P5 came without a built in EVF so when the GX7 was launched, I moved over, even though I was reluctant to learn a new system.

Sure the EVF is smaller than the E-M1's and it's IBIS is first generation, but overall it works quite well. The sensor has the low ISO dynamic range and high ISO noise close enough to 3-year old APS-C DSLRs, but that is a sweet spot to me - what is considered "good enough" to me, where the 12MP Panasonic M43 sensors had failed. For that matter, the RX100 has reached that benchmark too. The GX7 ergonomics are perfect as well once I programmed all the buttons and I love the switch to exposure compensation when you press the thumb wheel. I find that the tilting EVF useful as it gives me a different holding position in many situations, but I knew that already because I've been using the swivel EVFs on cameras for years even though I hated having to mount them on a hotshoe. My dream would be a RX100III with a built in EVF. In fact I sometimes put a magnifier in front of my RX100 to simulate an EVF. It works quite well.

 

[keithwee]

Local Prices seem going southward fast.

A friend of mine just got his EM5 body for $9xx with a extra original batt yesterday. All brand new with warranty.

Good news for all of us haha. Kinda hoping the GM1 will be priced reasonably too ; seems like a cute camera with decent performance to have.

 

[sje4182]

chill, sunset at a beach at Kathmandu

Nice pic!

 

[keithwee]

Nice pic!

Thanks

 

[nickgoh6]

Wow. This thread getting slightly bitter with all the different points of view. All ok as long as we don't go saying things like "fark" etc. Everyone has a choice. Everyone has different needs. As long as we explain why those needs are relevant to us and not put too much emotion into it, then it becomes helpful to others trying to make buying decisions.

Let's keep it civil and not too trolling like some sony fanboys who think the 1" sensor in the rx100 is the best thing since sliced bread.

You do trade off size of lens and FL reach for that bigger sensor. There's still a place for 1/1.7" compacts like LF1 (longer reach, built in evf), LX7 (much brighter lens), Canon S120 etc.

I personally prefer the gx7. That rangefinder style with built in EVF is a killer. Ibis not so good is ok with me as I use panny tele lenses. For primes it's good enough. My take is that the GM1 will be the best seller for m4/3 as it embodies the best of m4/3. Small. Light. Good IQ. Em1 will outsell gh3 and em5

Half fark, half bake, work in progress all meant the same thing and if you are referring to an object (and not a human), whats wrong with that and why get all emotion over a gadget?

Isn't saying that the 1" sensor in the rx100 is the best thing since sliced bread is just expressing a personal opinion so what's wrong with that? I also share the same opinion

Have you ever notice that people can get defensive and argumentative and even angry etc talking about cameras in forums but when they talk about the same things face to face like in a camera shop, the mood is mostly friendly and fun?

Why get all emotion and hype up over gadgets which are just toys for most of us? Chill it bro, its just a hobby.

 

[nickgoh6]

Good point. I'm one of those who sold the RX100ii for the DLux 6 even though on paper the RX should beat the DLux 6 flat.

I found the RX too slow at f4.9 compared to the DLux's f2.3 at the telephoto end and the DLux's handling more user friendly for me while the x20's OVF is something I miss a lot.

The RX is a winner from Sony but end of the day it just didn't work for me. It's a combination of factors not just sensor size that creates an overall winner.

Why did you buy a DLux 6 when you can pay half the price for the LX7 which is the same camera? Are you also a sucker for the red dot? LOL

I have both LX7 and RX100 II. LX7 handling is better but the noise level is a tad high and damn that lens cap. The Leica lens in LX7 is simply the best. CZ lens in RX100 no fight as I also has the opinion that it is not optimized in that camera. Sony's color also as nice but you do get more details with the larger sensor. The strange thing is that I'm getting better files with the RX100 than the MKII version. The new backlit sensor seems to flush out all the highlights. I'm really thinking of selling the MKII for the MKI but then when I see people getting great pic out of MKII, I begin to doubt my skills again.........lol

You should try the Leica X series. The X1 produces really detailed and gorgeous leica looking pics and if not for the slow AF and processing, it would be the best compact around. I've got the X2 but I keep getting blurred and over exposed pics. Some users said you need to know how to handle it and if you are successful, it will reward you handsomely.

 

[keithwee]

Why did you buy a DLux 6 when you can pay half the price for the LX7 which is the same camera? Are you also a sucker for the red dot? LOL

I have both LX7 and RX100 II. LX7 handling is better but the noise level is a tad high and damn that lens cap. The Leica lens in LX7 is simply the best. CZ lens in RX100 no fight as I also has the opinion that it is not optimized in that camera. Sony's color also as nice but you do get more details with the larger sensor. The strange thing is that I'm getting better files with the RX100 than the MKII version. The new backlit sensor seems to flush out all the highlights. I'm really thinking of selling the MKII for the MKI but then when I see people getting great pic out of MKII, I begin to doubt my skills again.........lol

You should try the Leica X series. The X1 produces really detailed and gorgeous leica looking pics and if not for the slow AF and processing, it would be the best compact around. I've got the X2 but I keep getting blurred and over exposed pics. Some users said you need to know how to handle it and if you are successful, it will reward you handsomely.

I tried the LX7 vs DLux6 side by side before jumping in. Prior to that I had the X10, X20, RX100ii too. Each for at least close to a month and brought out for an overseas trip to shoot. As i wanted a light weight high performance zoom, I skipped the RX1, RX1R, X100, X100S and the X1, X2. I've no idea how the RX10 and Stylus 1 will perform though.

The 'red dot' wasn't the justification la haha. Pple like us into who picked up MFT when it was in its infancy couldn't care less about branding. I agree with you on how good the glass is on the LX7 / DLux 6 and that was one of the reason i gave up the great RX100ii for it.

The RX's a wonderful piece of machine & low light perf wise it is still no doubt the best performer in the high end compact group but i just had issues finding the 'feel of wanting to shoot with it and I somehow always had issues navigating the functions and dials.

Ergonomics wise, the X10 and X20's really great with the OVF but main issue was it's poor performance in low light shooting.

The reason why I chose the DLux 6 over the LX7 is due to the OOC Jpeg colors it produces and that the menu/software layouts is one that i can identify with. I don't shoot raw on it as we all know RAW output on these 2 are the same. I fell in love with the colors the Dlux6's JPEG engine produces at 1st sight.

3 examples of OOC Jpeg from the DLux6 in quite low light restaurant sitting i have in my APAW folder:

if i didn't remember wrongly, these were simply shot either in auto or A mode.

Maybe I should try the X2 one day too bearing I'm willing to shell out the money for it.

 

[Akkers]

Hey guys,

I have been in and out of singapore on work lately (and not heading to a country where cameras are cheaper) could anyone give me an idea of what price i could get the EP5 kit here now? Will try to go down to some of the shops to find out this weekend. If anyone has heard of good deals pls lemme know.

Thanks
Akkers

 

[keithwee]

Hey guys, I have been in and out of singapore on work lately (and not heading to a country where cameras are cheaper) could anyone give me an idea of what price i could get the EP5 kit here now? Will try to go down to some of the shops to find out this weekend. If anyone has heard of good deals pls lemme know. Thanks Akkers

Should be in the region of < $16xx with the VF4 and 17/1.8 kit now. If u wan an exact quote PM me and I can recommend u a shop to ask.

Have fun shopping !

 

[seafood]

Out to Nepal ~ 23rd Oct to 7 Nov :bsmilie:

Why did you buy a DLux 6 when you can pay half the price for the LX7 which is the same camera? Are you also a sucker for the red dot? LOL

.........

I think Bro Keith do loves Red Dots ..... :vhappy:

Bro Keith, just ribbing ....still looking forward to your Nepal pixs :lovegrin:

 

[keithwee]

I think Bro Keith do loves Red Dots ..... :vhappy: Bro Keith, just ribbing ....still looking forward to your Nepal pixs :lovegrin:

Haha , oh no u found my secret ! I'm posting them slowly in my APAD section. But as I'm hosting them on FB , forgive me for the poor IQ u will see.