[ Discuss ] EP5 vs GX7. Or EM5?
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I can hear it when i use the VF4.
Sounds ok
Anyway , since u r going for the Oly workshop can always compare there for peace of mind. There's at least 2 EP5 on display for u to try haha.
vengels
Senior Member
I can hear it when i use the VF4.
turn off your IS and use your camera again..
you will realise that there is no sound..
I finally got my hands on the GX7. These are just my impressions.
........
3. As for the EVF, nope, I don't like it. The position on the left is OK but the protrusion is not the most comfortable. Coming from SLRs (classical as well as digital), the eye position is kinda odd - it "stabs" into the eye. And I guess you can't put a rubber cup over it to get a more comfortable fit as well as to block off the extraneous light. I don't fancy myself using it at all even if I were perfectly happy with the view through it. And though it is much improved over the EM5 I still find it laggy and the colours not as natural as I would like. There is also a perceptible background flicker. This may be due to the scene I am looking at, which is the artificial lighting in a shopping complex but still ....... not there yet.
The price of the GX7 was $14XX (didn't pursue it coz had already decided against it) and the EP5 $1600.
OK ..... I didn't like the "feel" of the GX7. I am not exactly in love with the 20/1.7 II. I don't see myself using the GX7's EVF. For the $100+ difference, I settled my itch
I just used the VF4 on the EP5.
There is NO better VF.
I retried the GX7. I can fully understand why the GX7's VF put me off. The EP5's VF4 is a revelation. It is not slightly better than the GX7's VF. It is a generation ahead. It is that good.
I am a cynic of EVFs. The EM5's EVF put me off. The GX7's also put me off. I bought the EP5 without any due regard to the VF4. I finally used the VF4. Just on the matter of EVF itself, the EP5 trumps the GX7. The EP5's VF4 is fast, responsive and as lifelike as I can imagine today. It is a generation ahead of the EM5's EVF. The only criticism I have of the VF4 is how they implement peak focus focusing. Not entirely the most intuitive nor the most user friendly but it works.
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focus peak is from the camera, rather than VF4. In this aspect, GX7 is better so is the Nex. EM1 seems a bit better than EP5 but still there's a lag (slow refresh rate)
My bad. Yes, peak focus is a function of the body rather than the EVF itself.
To be honest, I haven't used MF nor any MF lenses yet on the EP5. With the VF4, I was inspired to try out MF on the EP5. Even with the Contax G's Carl Zeiss Sonnar 90/f2.8, MF was a breeze on the EP5. I gave up on this on the EP1. It was slightly better with the GX1 but still not the most intuitive via the back panel LCD. The VF4's 1.48X magnification ratio with the true to life colours and stable image certainly made it a boon for direct focusing. On the EM5, I even had issue with adjusting the diopter difference; I couldn't be sure whether what I was seeing was NOT in focus or is it the diopter adjustment. No such issue with the VF4. The VF4 still don't rival the best optical VF but at least I feel comfortable using an EVF now.
contax 90/2.8 is a very good lens, just need the right focusing adapter for it . EP1 is very tough to MF, though that was how i got into manual focusing as m43 system wasn't ready then compared to now. happy with the VF progress recently even tho VF2 works for me since few years back, can only get better. on EM1 there's a also nifty color that's able to change colors/hue on the fly through the evf. the stuff that oly is implementing into the evf technology is certainly ahead in these aspects, though remains to be seen how useful this will be. i don't use focus peak, only when it's really tough, i just find this less useful than GX7/Nex, and m43 lenses are so good that negates the use of the manual lenses, plus the 2x crop. maybe when the focus peak on EM1 is ready, i will use them again
Just got back from a Halloween gathering for kids. Met a friend who have been using the EM5 for nearly a year. When we were talking on the the subject of EVF, he admitted that he has not been using his EM5 via the EVF as he finds it too "tiring" and "difficult". He was suitably impressed by the VF4 on the EP5.
As it is, I find the function of the VF4 impressive for an EVF. This should have been the VF to debut on the EM5. On the other hand, the quality/feel of the VF4 don't seem to live up to its function. It feels a trifle plasticky. When used in the upright or the standard position, it is ok. At any other intermittent position it feels flimsy and slides too easily. The hinge itself don't inspires confidence as to its longevity with heavy usage.
In good lighting, the view was impressive. Tonight, in the dark, lag was more perceptible. But on saying this, even with OVF, focusing is an issue in the dark.
I have to agree that the vf4 is better than the evf on gx7. Using vf4 is like watching a 42' led tv while evf in gx7 is like 32' lcd tv. If you are a manuel focus user, the focus peaking in gx7 is easier in my opinion cos the different colour used for the peaking and not black and white used on ep5. And the magnificant method implemented on gx7 is excellent.
hydroburn249
New Member
Coming from the venerable Lumix G1 (the grandfather of the m4/3 camera), I have very low standards about EVFs. But when I tried the EVF on the GX7, I was very very disappointed. I thought the EVF would be a dealbreaker between the GX7 and the EP5, but it just pushed me closer to the EP5.
THe GX7 finder is small, and relatively dim. And it's not so WYSIWYG as the one in the VF4/EP5. But the thing I like about the GX7 is it's heft and weight. Somehow feels much more solid in the hand.
And yes, the VF4 is gorgeous. So now a proud owner of a silver EP5 + 17mm f1.8
Bottom line: If you're deciding between the EP5 and the GX7, try it out in the store. I liked the heft of the GX7, but was put off by the EVF. Your mileage may vary though.
THe GX7 finder is small, and relatively dim. And it's not so WYSIWYG as the one in the VF4/EP5. But the thing I like about the GX7 is it's heft and weight. Somehow feels much more solid in the hand.
And yes, the VF4 is gorgeous. So now a proud owner of a silver EP5 + 17mm f1.8
Bottom line: If you're deciding between the EP5 and the GX7, try it out in the store. I liked the heft of the GX7, but was put off by the EVF. Your mileage may vary though.
Coming from the venerable Lumix G1 (the grandfather of the m4/3 camera), I have very low standards about EVFs. But when I tried the EVF on the GX7, I was very very disappointed. I thought the EVF would be a dealbreaker between the GX7 and the EP5, but it just pushed me closer to the EP5.
THe GX7 finder is small, and relatively dim. And it's not so WYSIWYG as the one in the VF4/EP5. But the thing I like about the GX7 is it's heft and weight. Somehow feels much more solid in the hand.
And yes, the VF4 is gorgeous. So now a proud owner of a silver EP5 + 17mm f1.8
Bottom line: If you're deciding between the EP5 and the GX7, try it out in the store. I liked the heft of the GX7, but was put off by the EVF. Your mileage may vary though.
Optoms, I can relate with your analogy; the EP5's EVF appears so much more spacious.
Hydroburn, my exact sentiments when I first handled the GX7. And I actually held out on buying the EP5 to await the GX7. The overall GX7's EVF was quite disappointing. The feeling is that of "peering down a tube", unlike the EP5, which is more like that of "looking out of a window". And my first experience with mirrorless was also the G1
I thought the feel and handling of the GX7 was not up to that of the GX1. The EP5's weight is acceptable to me but the overall heft and ergonomics leaves much to be desired in terms of the control placement and feel though.
However good the VF4, the reason why I didn't buy the EP5 despite using Olympus cameras since 30 years ago is that it sticks out from the top and makes the camera large and unwieldy. You can't stick it in your pocket or even into a bag without taking off the VF4. So even though the GX7 EVF is slightly not as good (and I emphasize slightly), its just overall a much more convenient camera to carry around if you use the EVF exclusively. Being an old SLR users, I can't stand using an LCD to shoot. Anyway, I'm almost sure that the EP6 is going to come out soon and it will have a built in viewfinder, otherwise the GX7 pricing is eating Olympus alive. Until then, I will use the GX7 despite my overall preference for Olympus having used the EM5 for the past 2 years.
And I totally agree with your viewpoint.
I got the EP5 without meaning to use the VF4 because I can imagine how PITA it can be. I am perfectly fine with just using the back LCD panel for everything. I thought the advantage of an inbuilt EVF like the GX7 would be the deal breaker in chosing the GX7. It just didn't live up to my expectations. For the $100+ difference, I could live without an EVF for I can't forsee myself using the GX7's EVF for prolonged periods.
As it is I hardly use the VF4 anyway ....
And I am glad the GX7 came along coz it did lower the EP5's price significantly
Check this DXO Mark comparison out EM1, EP5, GX7.
http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Comp.../Panasonic/(appareil3)/883|0/(brand3)/Olympus
http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Comp.../Panasonic/(appareil3)/883|0/(brand3)/Olympus
EM1 and EP5 looks like very small difference and EP5 even beats it in low light?
I expected the price of the GX7 to be similar or even more ex than that of the EP5 at launch. It was indeed a pleasant surprise when it came out much lower and forced down the EP5's price. The people at Panny must have been fully cognizant of the limitations of the GX7. With those numbers, and the performance of the GX7's EVF relative to the VF4, there is no way the GX7 can be priced more than the EP5.
The marketing side of Panny did a wonderful launch of the GX7!
NazgulKing
Senior Member
All this fretting about EVFs is pointless. Obviously there had to be trade offs in integrating an EVF onto a small body. Otherwise, it'd be too outsized to fit onto a body like the GF7. If you are fine with having an EVF sticking above the camera, and you think you can make sure you can take good care of the EVF (I know I can't. I keep dropping my damn Ricoh EVF till it's quite badly scratched etc.), then go for the EP5. Otherwise, complaining about optics is moot.
And if EVFs are such an issue, then OVF is the only way to go, along with the usual DSLR bulk.
And if EVFs are such an issue, then OVF is the only way to go, along with the usual DSLR bulk.
With the Sony A7 launching at $1,999, almost exactly the same price as the EM-1, this is going to be an issue because people will see "full frame" even though the A7 isn't a system yet. After I sold off my 20mm II, the GX7 was around $1K or less, which is value for money
At S$2K body only, the A7 should not be affecting the prices of the EP5 / GX7. If anything it'll put the shivers in the Canikon camp.
Have been busy and not using the EP5 as much as I would like but some comments on the OOC jpgs.
The most defining change in the EP5 compare to the GX1 and especially the EP3 is Dynamic Range. Not just awesome DR at base ISO of 200 but retained DR up to ISO800 before there is perceptible reduction of DR. There is definitely less clipping of highlights and details in the shadows is very much improved, at Normal Graduation. DR at ISO1600 is still pretty impressive. I think it is more of this retained DR than the usual increased noise that contributes to the improved high ISO OOC output. Both details and colour is very well preserved at ISO1600.
The usual Oly's handling of colours applies and the WB, though on the slightly vibrant side is probably more pleasing to most. Outdoors, there is absolutely no need for any adjustments and the colours are just superb. I am quite happy with the standard "Natural" setting output for good lighting for most of my shots without any adjustments. For higher ISO shots or low lighting or non-natural lighting, I default to either "Vivid" or "I-Enhance". One feature I am still exploring is the "Retain Warm colours" options for the EP5. The change is very perceptible and I still haven't figure where this option is best used.
The most defining change in the EP5 compare to the GX1 and especially the EP3 is Dynamic Range. Not just awesome DR at base ISO of 200 but retained DR up to ISO800 before there is perceptible reduction of DR. There is definitely less clipping of highlights and details in the shadows is very much improved, at Normal Graduation. DR at ISO1600 is still pretty impressive. I think it is more of this retained DR than the usual increased noise that contributes to the improved high ISO OOC output. Both details and colour is very well preserved at ISO1600.
The usual Oly's handling of colours applies and the WB, though on the slightly vibrant side is probably more pleasing to most. Outdoors, there is absolutely no need for any adjustments and the colours are just superb. I am quite happy with the standard "Natural" setting output for good lighting for most of my shots without any adjustments. For higher ISO shots or low lighting or non-natural lighting, I default to either "Vivid" or "I-Enhance". One feature I am still exploring is the "Retain Warm colours" options for the EP5. The change is very perceptible and I still haven't figure where this option is best used.
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