Critique Corner going downhill?

[student]

i am not trying to make it a newbie vs oldie thing, perhaps my term of use is flawed. perhaps my thinking is flawed as well.

what is the point in posting a picture with eg. no focus, no message to bring across. the thread i have in mind is the "guess what watch this is?". Is there any creative input to be given? what excatly can one critique on?... Possible compositions? could be anything!

to me, critique corner serves the purpose for people who know that their pictures lack, or have achieved something and need input. People like stoned, and maybe a few others (sorry it's late and i dont have time), who continually try something new and return to ask for c&c. that's who CC would serve.

okay, let me just make it as anyone who can at least make a decent composition is qualified to post. A decent compo should bring some kind of message across; a blurry clock face luminated in the dark does not.

Let it be.

I do not think it is that important to insist that a person must know how to make a decent composition before he can be allowed to post in the critique corner.

Sometimes people really think that their composition is wonderful, and a new way of seeing. You may of course disagree. So say your piece. Be harsh. But let the TS have the views of others how they think about their composition.

Some people may event think that their images are full of meaning and message. But totally meaningless to others. That blurry image of a clockface can have tremendous message to the TS. It may just not be clear to you. It may be that he had suffered some catastrophic events. He felt confused, time flies nonetheless. And that blurry clockface somehow represented his psyche at that point of time. Now I am not saying that that is the case. Just that we really do not know. Give them the benefit of the doubt, but give them also what you think of the image.

flambe posted an image in the Streets subforum. Some mentioned that they will not even take a fleeting look at this image. But I did. I thought it was most profound. I saw things differently from the others.

I posted an image of 2 Italian girls, and nemesis123 mentioned that the image meant nothing to him. But I saw the friendship and relationship between the two girls.

Ansel Adams had a picture of a tree stump. Minor White asked Adams. What is the message? Ansel Adams replied. "it is a picture of a tree stump".

 

[The_Cheat]

Let it be.

I do not think it is that important to insist that a person must know how to make a decent composition before he can be allowed to post in the critique corner.

Sometimes people really think that their composition is wonderful, and a new way of seeing. You may of course disagree. So say your piece. Be harsh. But let the TS have the views of others how they think about their composition.

Some people may event think that their images are full of meaning and message. But totally meaningless to others. That blurry image of a clockface can have tremendous message to the TS. It may just not be clear to you. It may be that he had suffered some catastrophic events. He felt confused, time flies nonetheless. And that blurry clockface somehow represented his psyche at that point of time. Now I am not saying that that is the case. Just that we really do not know. Give them the benefit of the doubt, but give them also what you think of the image.

flambe posted an image in the Streets subforum. Some mentioned that they will not even take a fleeting look at this image. But I did. I thought it was most profound. I saw things differently from the others.

I posted an image of 2 Italian girls, and nemesis123 mentioned that the image meant nothing to him. But I saw the friendship and relationship between the two girls.

Ansel Adams had a picture of a tree stump. Minor White asked Adams. What is the message? Ansel Adams replied. "it is a picture of a tree stump".

In total agreement with student's assessment.

Often a times, pictures that get posted are based on the photographer's insight of what he/she consider is good. But what's not mentioned is that, what's often considered good is usually that of the familiar, that which follow the mainline thought, that which is popular. Hence, again and again, we get sunset or sunrise that doesn't consider other aspects other than the colour. Again and again, we get the same tired delayed exposures of Chinatown bird-eye's view. Again and again, we get portraits of nice young ladies, who really look uncomfortable through and through.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with taking those pictures of course. In fact, I envy people who have the patience to keep on shooting what they shoot so often to improve on the technicality and their skill. What I'm against is, however, that a lot of photographers/critics (often people who themselves insist on emphasizing the tiniest details within each "genre" of photography), keep on encouraging pictures to be confine within the box of each "genre", within the confine of a certain kind of composition, within the confine of what is the right tone, right exposure and right contrast. Male cow compost, I tell you.

Fact is, if you were to look at the critique corner today, there would usually be more ready critiques on portraits, on landscape and even macro. Yet, whenever someone were to post something abstract, the post would usually go unnoticed for days, before someone finally come out from the shell to comment on the technicality aspect on the shot. While this may work in some instance, where the abstract is more detail-oriented (still life for example. Oh! Still life is abstract...), it will only counterproductive, since a critic couldn't possibly know what the photographer is trying to portray. Hence, rather than trying to understand what the abstract is about, the critic focus on the neutral technical knowledge and based it upon his opinion of what a "good" photograph should look like to impose it on the photographer. The intentions may be genuine benign, but the results could be disastrous.

Anyway, with regards to the posting of images, I really don't think that a distinction should be made between a good or a bad photo. A photo taken no matter how good or bad to someone, is ultimately an image of value to the photographer or the subject. While most "standard" wedding or event photographs would have no value to an artist beyond documentation, these same photographs are priceless to people who are involved.

I'm still more concerned about the quality of the critiques than the quality of the image.

 

[foxtwo]

Let it be.

I do not think it is that important to insist that a person must know how to make a decent composition before he can be allowed to post in the critique corner.

Sometimes people really think that their composition is wonderful, and a new way of seeing. You may of course disagree. So say your piece. Be harsh. But let the TS have the views of others how they think about their composition.

Some people may event think that their images are full of meaning and message. But totally meaningless to others. That blurry image of a clockface can have tremendous message to the TS. It may just not be clear to you. It may be that he had suffered some catastrophic events. He felt confused, time flies nonetheless. And that blurry clockface somehow represented his psyche at that point of time. Now I am not saying that that is the case. Just that we really do not know. Give them the benefit of the doubt, but give them also what you think of the image.

flambe posted an image in the Streets subforum. Some mentioned that they will not even take a fleeting look at this image. But I did. I thought it was most profound. I saw things differently from the others.

I posted an image of 2 Italian girls, and nemesis123 mentioned that the image meant nothing to him. But I saw the friendship and relationship between the two girls.

Ansel Adams had a picture of a tree stump. Minor White asked Adams. What is the message? Ansel Adams replied. "it is a picture of a tree stump".

yeah, you are right there. (although i do not think those images were posted in Critique Corner (CC)?)

but woe to the one who shoots something with no/little idea in mind and proceed to post in CC asking for comments. I'm always very curious what answer they come up with when posed the question of what they are trying to show. I keep an open mind really, but you can tell they are just testing water when the answers are honestly vague.

i don't see the point in trying to improve someone's image when he/she has no notion on the direction he/she wants to embark on. to these people asking for ''ány comments to improve" need to take some time off, shoot more, get into self-discovery of their artistic leanings, come back with their best image and ask for comments on that. Best is subjective, but I will always believe the TS is better than his/her best, but TS please do produce his/her best in the first place. Well i'm not expecting this to be possible to enforce (quite impossible), i'm just wishing TSers will show their best and not some snapshot over the weekend.

i see the stand that Csers support all & any images to be c&c-ed in CC. but before CC there was newbie corner (NC). Many beginner Csers did post their images there looking for tips on how to eg. use their equipment more effectively or to brush up on basic compositional skills, etc. I don't see the need for CC to supplant NC on these instances.

Wouldn't i have more time to sit down and dissect someoné's artistic image if i wasnt swamped with many people's need for metering advice (*tongue in cheek*)?

 

[Zerstorer]

i think part of the the problem in CS is that there are some posts which don't seem to fit in with any specific sub-forum. for example, the "show me your best bokeh!" thread. which started off in portraits and poses, then got moved to critique corner (wrongly, i feel). i think it belongs to neither sub-forum, but perhaps a new "catch-all" sub-forum for such "miscellaneous" postings.

I thought that bokeh thread was bad enough, but this takes the cake.:bsmilie:

 

[Francis247]

I thought that bokeh thread was bad enough, but this takes the cake.:bsmilie:

That is the problem when nobody bother to read the guidelines/rules and regulations. It just take a minute to read and understand it which is not too hard. :dunno:

 

[sumball]

i see the stand that Csers support all & any images to be c&c-ed in CC. but before CC there was newbie corner (NC). Many beginner Csers did post their images there looking for tips on how to eg. use their equipment more effectively or to brush up on basic compositional skills, etc. I don't see the need for CC to supplant NC on these instances.

I agree with you. I see many people using it as another kopitiam as well, post a photo, and others start to chip in. Instead of asking for critiques and advices, he asked if you can see this and that in the photos . Worse is one of the moderators joined in to play around by posing another PSed photo.:nono:

 

[nicholas68]

In total agreement with student's assessment.

Often a times, pictures that get posted are based on the photographer's insight of what he/she consider is good. But what's not mentioned is that, what's often considered good is usually that of the familiar, that which follow the mainline thought, that which is popular. Hence, again and again, we get sunset or sunrise that doesn't consider other aspects other than the colour. Again and again, we get the same tired delayed exposures of Chinatown bird-eye's view. Again and again, we get portraits of nice young ladies, who really look uncomfortable through and through.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with taking those pictures of course. In fact, I envy people who have the patience to keep on shooting what they shoot so often to improve on the technicality and their skill. What I'm against is, however, that a lot of photographers/critics (often people who themselves insist on emphasizing the tiniest details within each "genre" of photography), keep on encouraging pictures to be confine within the box of each "genre", within the confine of a certain kind of composition, within the confine of what is the right tone, right exposure and right contrast. Male cow compost, I tell you.

Fact is, if you were to look at the critique corner today, there would usually be more ready critiques on portraits, on landscape and even macro. Yet, whenever someone were to post something abstract, the post would usually go unnoticed for days, before someone finally come out from the shell to comment on the technicality aspect on the shot. While this may work in some instance, where the abstract is more detail-oriented (still life for example. Oh! Still life is abstract...), it will only counterproductive, since a critic couldn't possibly know what the photographer is trying to portray. Hence, rather than trying to understand what the abstract is about, the critic focus on the neutral technical knowledge and based it upon his opinion of what a "good" photograph should look like to impose it on the photographer. The intentions may be genuine benign, but the results could be disastrous.

Anyway, with regards to the posting of images, I really don't think that a distinction should be made between a good or a bad photo. A photo taken no matter how good or bad to someone, is ultimately an image of value to the photographer or the subject. While most "standard" wedding or event photographs would have no value to an artist beyond documentation, these same photographs are priceless to people who are involved.

I'm still more concerned about the quality of the critiques than the quality of the image.

I really have to agree with what you have say.

I have posted a series of thaipusam photography on C&C forum until today I still do not understand why can't i post a series. So if I decided to post 1 photogrphy out of the 5 hundred photography. Do I need to lie to myself.

The best thing that have happened. Somebody just come in have some fun and just leave.

In total I posted 3 post in C&C colunms and what kinds for follow back that I have receive.


Single photography.

http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=178566


Series of photography an was remove to reportge and sport

http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=178565

http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=178592



Think about it I think i better take out my series of photography on Geylang Prostitute and let see what kind of C&C. This does not happened to me when I was studying in oversea on my creative education.

 

[LittleWolf]

I have posted a series of thaipusam photography on C&C forum until today I still do not understand why can't i post a series.

Because: a) You're abusing the generosity of people who are willing to offer comments. b) By monopolising the limited resource "critique", you deprive others of an opportunity to have their works critiqued.

Have you considered that it may take quite a while to write even a short critique for a single photo?

 

[The_Cheat]

I really have to agree with what you have say.

I have posted a series of thaipusam photography on C&C forum until today I still do not understand why can't i post a series. So if I decided to post 1 photogrphy out of the 5 hundred photography. Do I need to lie to myself.

Why can't you post more than one photo? Cos it has already been agreed in the rules and regulations for members to only post one photo for critique, and not more than one per week, when the corner first started out. That's the rule of the game. If you're not happy with the rule, don't play the game. Simple.

Sorry for sounding harsh... but there have been too many people who have been ignoring the rules in the corner. So much so that it have incited the wrath of others, leading to the existence of this thread.

No one said that you can't post a series of photo. Just that you can't do it there. The whole point of the critique corner in the first place is to give everyone a chance, for their pictures to be critique. If one were to post too many photos or flood it incessantly, it definitely won't be fair to the others.

If you really wish to post your pictures as a series, post it in the other sub-forums. There will be other members who frequent those sub-forums who will view the whole series and give you valuable comments as well. Just don't expect every single one of your post to be commented though, unless it is a portrait of a young gal... :sticktong

 

[nicholas68]

Because: a) You're abusing the generosity of people who are willing to offer comments. b) By monopolising the limited resource "critique", you deprive others of an opportunity to have their works critiqued.

Have you considered that it may take quite a while to write even a short critique for a single photo?

My point is this, why can't anybody critiqued as a series of photography. If you think that it take a while to type a short critique, pls refer back to my posting that nick name (AReailty)what kind of comment that f_____ had posted. Are you telling me that is short critique. I really thank those who take time to type a really good or bad comment.

To be honest 90% of the posting in this forum is really crab.

 

[foxtwo]

I really have to agree with what you have say.

I have posted a series of thaipusam photography on C&C forum until today I still do not understand why can't i post a series. So if I decided to post 1 photogrphy out of the 5 hundred photography. Do I need to lie to myself.

The best thing that have happened. Somebody just come in have some fun and just leave.

In total I posted 3 post in C&C colunms and what kinds for follow back that I have receive.


Single photography.

http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=178566


Series of photography an was remove to reportge and sport

http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=178565

http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=178592



Think about it I think i better take out my series of photography on Geylang Prostitute and let see what kind of C&C. This does not happened to me when I was studying in oversea on my creative education.

I cant answer for others who have commented, but i hope you understand why i have different attitudes for this and this.

in good reportage, there should be 1 photo to sum up the entire event.

the former, the 1st photo was not it. so i gave a green-light to post another. My reason for bending the 1pic rule is written there.

the latter, your opinion that "....no way that anybody could catch a good photo" is frankly none of my concern and besides the point. just because you failed to produce the photo that sums up the festival is not a greenlight to post en masse. the 1pic rule holds true here.

as i see it, you can either
1. post the next best thing and face the frank remarks in CC,
2. post the entire series in reportage gallery, or
3. decide not to post online, keep it to yourself and mark it as a failed reportage event.

I hope you see this in another light and not think the worst, that there is something else you can learn.

(*i would direct this post to anyone with similiar problems, not just nicholas68)

 

[nicholas68]

Why can't you post more than one photo? Cos it has already been agreed in the rules and regulations for members to only post one photo for critique, and not more than one per week, when the corner first started out. That's the rule of the game. If you're not happy with the rule, don't play the game. Simple.

Sorry for sounding harsh... but there have been too many people who have been ignoring the rules in the corner. So much so that it have incited the wrath of others, leading to the existence of this thread.

No one said that you can't post a series of photo. Just that you can't do it there. The whole point of the critique corner in the first place is to give everyone a chance, for their pictures to be critique. If one were to post too many photos or flood it incessantly, it definitely won't be fair to the others.

If you really wish to post your pictures as a series, post it in the other sub-forums. There will be other members who frequent those sub-forums who will view the whole series and give you valuable comments as well. Just don't expect every single one of your post to be commented though, unless it is a portrait of a young gal... :sticktong

I send my apology to the rest. honestly I did not read the r&r. as i say why can't you people comment as a series of photography treat it as one photography.

 

[nicholas68]

Point taken

May be this will work. Since these is some student in this forum may be we can arranged for some private viewing.


(*Think about it I think i better take out my series of photography on Geylang Prostitute and let see what kind of C&C. )

 

[LittleWolf]

My point is this, why can't anybody critiqued as a series of photography.

The "one image only" rule is as far as I can tell the accepted consensus. It is not written in stone; if people can find a new concensus (e.g. in a discussion like this one), rules can be changed. But until then, rules are rules, no?

If you think that it take a while to type a short critique, pls refer back to my posting that nick name (AReailty)what kind of comment that f_____ had posted. Are you telling me that is short critique

I'm not sure how to read this sentence. Am I correct that you complain about someone else posting a non-critique comment? If so:

Isn't the comment maybe a gentle hint that you're in blatant violation of the guidelines? And isn't it a good sign if people care enough about this community that they don't just ignore problems, but try to act on them within their capability, even if that carries the risk of being called a f______ (whatever that may be)?

And is calling someone else a f_______ in public going to help finding a new consensus?

 

[nicholas68]

thank anyway. Good night.

 

[The_Cheat]

The "one image only" rule is as far as I can tell the accepted consensus. It is not written in stone; if people can find a new concensus (e.g. in a discussion like this one), rules can be changed. But until then, rules are rules, no?

All hail the rule!

Anyway, are we back to the stage where we are asking the relevence of the critique corner in CS? Should we put distinction between the critique corner and the other sub-forums, by hailing incessantly to the rule? Or would CS be a better place without the critique corner?

I like to reiterate my stance that I have no problem with people posting photographs, be it newbie or oldbie, good or bad photographs. And while rules to make the disctinction between critique corner and the other sub-forums could easily be solved with moderation, the quality of critics can't. Can there be a standard for critiquing as well? Simple guidelines or forms will prevent people from making irresponsible comments.

 

[roygoh]

I agree with you. I see many people using it as another kopitiam as well, post a photo, and others start to chip in. Instead of asking for critiques and advices, he asked if you can see this and that in the photos . Worse is one of the moderators joined in to play around by posing another PSed photo.:nono:

You are right...I should not have contributed to the downfall of the Critique corner. My apologoies to all.

 

[Zerstorer]

My point is this, why can't anybody critiqued as a series of photography. If you think that it take a while to type a short critique, pls refer back to my posting that nick name (AReailty)what kind of comment that f_____ had posted. Are you telling me that is short critique. I really thank those who take time to type a really good or bad comment.

To be honest 90% of the posting in this forum is really crab.

Thank god that he even bothered to comment on your pics. His observations were spot on and you are calling him a f____?

Try to reflect on whether are are indeed asking for critique or just bouquets.

 

[denniskee]

My point is this, why can't anybody critiqued as a series of photography. If you think that it take a while to type a short critique, pls refer back to my posting that nick name (AReailty)what kind of comment that f_____ had posted. Are you telling me that is short critique. I really thank those who take time to type a really good or bad comment.

To be honest 90% of the posting in this forum is really crab.

you had posted and ask for comment, he gave you his honest opinion, and now you turn around and call him f____??

to protect myself from getting insulted, i will stay away from your posting.

 

[nicholas68]

Its one of the truest and kindest comments around. If u dont value it, suggest u can go join a photographic course @ SLCC Photography Courses . Then come back and improve on the 90% crap post rating.

Btw your comments will come in when your photos are 'there', dont even need them to be in critique corner. Not many likes to be nasty here and leave a bad comment/remark.

Onli few have commented on mine, coz mine suxxs its true. [/QUOTE



What made you so sure that I do not attend any photographic course, I attended a one day course with SLCC and I did not want to go near there anymore.