Consolidated NKF Thread

[XPeriment626]

How it works is he prob need to get a patron (in this case i think is SM GOH) to gives the cause legitimacy. If it's you and me, you think you can get SM GOH to be patron?

YES.

The patron is SM Goh's wife. She is also a patron of TOUCH Community Services. It is not who the CEO is, it is beause the organisation is a charity. Nothing to do with Mr Durai and his gold-plated taps.

 

[nemesis32]

Did they ask for your money for the sake of the needy with tears?

This is besides the point. The funds still flows to patients, just a matter of how much. If you think this way, might as well aask everyone of them , including cleaning lady to accept 50% pay cut? You cannot penalise just 1 person. Similarly, i doubt only he gets good bonus.

 

[YoungPAP]

We got to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. Though i do not like it that my donations intended to fund the dialysis patients are used in parts to pay the bonuses of the management, we have to accept that in this world, we got to reward performance with money. You have to judge for your self if a ggod job has been done. However it would be a great gesture if those who benefits, give back in money or in kinds or in organs to the company that gives them.

 

[kitkat]

oki, thx for clearing that up

np... juz help my family members do the same.... advising frens to follow suit too.

Rather put my cash in where charity behaves like a charity (with compassion and thoughts for the needy) , not to a "first class" n fat bonus charity org.

 

[swampthing]

What the rules state is that 70% of the expenses must be for the usage of the purpose (ie for NKF is the kidney patients, for NAC etc will be for the artist etc). This criteria is more for tax purposes and it's difficult to prove otherwise. For example, staff costs (which is the biggest expense item) will be allocated almost 100% to these Kidney patients eventhough it is not direct costs...

I agree.. especially when putting 26% away for reserves, and spending 56%.

 

[Goondoo]

We got to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. Though i do not like it that my donations intended to fund the dialysis patients are used in parts to pay the bonuses of the management, we have to accept that in this world, we got to reward performance with money. You have to judge for your self if a ggod job has been done. However it would be a great gesture if those who benefits, give back in money or in kinds or in organs to the company that gives them.

A friend over the other forum did a summarisation...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Did a quick comparison for NKF(2003) vs KDF(FY03/04)...

Collections from donations + grant + sponsorships
NKF - 67,365,000
KDF - 4,675,527

Direct charitable expenses
NKF - 36,191,000 (54% of collections)
KDF - 3,818,448 (82% of collections)

Employee costs
NKF - 27,125,000 (40% of collections)
KDF - 572,696 (12% of collections)

Av mthly cost per employee
NKF - 2,270 (996 employees)
KDF - 2,390 (20 employees)

Up to you guys to make sense out of these...

BC

There is still www.kdf.org.sg

 

[sfhuang]

We got to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. Though i do not like it that my donations intended to fund the dialysis patients are used in parts to pay the bonuses of the management, we have to accept that in this world, we got to reward performance with money. You have to judge for your self if a ggod job has been done. However it would be a great gesture if those who benefits, give back in money or in kinds or in organs to the company that gives them.

are you really with YoungPAP? :think:

 

[nemesis32]

YES.

The patron is SM Goh's wife. She is also a patron of TOUCH Community Services. It is not who the CEO is, it is beause the organisation is a charity. Nothing to do with Mr Durai and his gold-plated taps.

So what you saying is because it's a charity, you cannot pay for staffs (all must be volunteer?) or just not overpaid?

I believe NKF have some guidelines on how much they can pay (assuming their finance/audit committee and BOD is doing their job).

All i can say is how much he has paid is irrelavant. Impt is how much he has contributed and is he overpaid or paid fairly.

Someone mentioned that MPs are quite well paid but i think you need to consider the context. i think most MPs are well paid as compared to us. But if you compare with their peers, they could be earning a lot less. E.g. If Dr Tony Tan remains in banking, he will probably earn much more than he is earning now. Similarly, PM Lee Hsien Loong will prob earn more or similar amount as Lee Hsien Yang if he joins private sector.

So are MPs overpaid? Not really. However, certain MPs is just there to fill in quota (so call represent us but never talk, never visit us unless elections is up), they are considered overpaid.

 

[Del_CtrlnoAlt]

yqt... he being blantly honest lah... in short... we are all stupid...

 

[yqt]

Yup, i know that. But how many of us also know that by sending a cheque, NKF gets 100% of the funds whereas by donating thru phones during TV shows whereby Zoe Tay performs, Singtel also get a cut per call?

When u make a donation, you know that part of it will not go to the patients/ultimate user. Thats why i only donate directly or give directly say to those visually-impaired or buy tissues from those old people. You help them directly and only them.

Yes, agreed with you. But at least Singtel inform me before hand that there is a charge. I know that part of my donation is going to Singtel as call charge.
NKF did not tell me that their CEO is paid $600K /year for the last 3 years. NKF did not tell me that their CEO is flying First Class.
NKF also did not tell me their CEO is using a tap that cost $990.

 

[nemesis32]

I agree.. especially when putting 26% away for reserves, and spending 56%.

Yup... even for CDCs etc, some of them are very cash-rich as they receive funding from govt, does not mean 100% will be used. You need to save some money for rainy days....but shd not compromise your short term objective.

 

[deslim27]

A friend over the other forum did a summarisation...

How about the number of patients under their care and benefits?

Direct charitable expenses
NKF - 36,191,000 (54% of collections)
KDF - 3,818,448 (82% of collections)

Employee costs
NKF - 27,125,000 (40% of collections)
KDF - 572,696 (12% of collections)

By these numbers it seems that KDF is more efficient then NKF?

 

[XPeriment626]

A friend over the other forum did a summarisation.../QUOTE]

Don't think this comparison is accurate. Remember, the NKF financial statement shows two different items of expenditure that include salary costs. The salary of the NKF top management will definitely skew the average way off so it has probably been moved to be hidden under "Administrative Costs" (which in their financial statement they admit does include salaries). Thus the figure in the comparison above only refers to the rank-and-file salaried workers at the dialysis centres, not the folks who get to use $900 taps.

 

[smyee]

We got to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. Though i do not like it that my donations intended to fund the dialysis patients are used in parts to pay the bonuses of the management, we have to accept that in this world, we got to reward performance with money. You have to judge for your self if a ggod job has been done. However it would be a great gesture if those who benefits, give back in money or in kinds or in organs to the company that gives them.

Your "reward" (here is donation from public) comes with hiding the fact & mislead the public. We need transparency, let put it this way, published the CEO pay package earlier, will NKF still able to accumulated > $100m reserve ?

 

[redStX]

Well... IIRC Lee Hsien Loong (Singtel) and Jackson Tai (DBS) earned much more than their basic salary as their bonuses are tied to the share performance and other KPIs. Wee Cho Yow earns much more as well.... esp since you ahve not taken into account his profit sharing/dividends etc.

err....1st person named is the PM ley!!

 

[poohbear]

Yup, it's his entitlement and thus within his rights.

Just like my leave entitlement is 14 days and if my boss ask me to forfeit one day, i will request for compensation.

For his case, i believe even by flying 1st class, he still pay less than or equal to flying SIA business class (yes, it's that overpriced) so he did save money. As for why he chooses to do so, only he can answer but it is well within his rights unless his contract states that he can only FLY BUSINESS CLASS.

anyway, a disclaimer, i donno him and not defending him. I just looked at things objectively (occupational hazard) and says what i think is right from business/accounting perspective. Morally, maybe he shd fly economy and not have salary!

I understand your pt , but i guess it's time the BOD and the regulatory authority starts to review the whole thing. TOo much money for them to play around liao ....

 

[Sjourn]

Matter of fact, if it was a private run company, the CEO gets what he deserves. But what gets my nerves is the donation drive is made public nationally and NKF can't be transparent on the usuage of funds?... :dunno:

Good thing this issue came up, open ours eyes bigger in future to these so called charitable bodies..

 

[nemesis32]

Yes, agreed with you. But at least Singtel inform me before hand that there is a charge. I know that part of my donation is going to Singtel as call charge.
NKF did not tell me that their CEO is paid $600K /year for the last 3 years. NKF did not tell me that their CEO is flying First Class.
NKF also did not tell me their CEO is using a tap that cost $990.

There is no statutory requirement to let u know how much the CEO earns or how much NKF saved each year as it's not listed. This is the same case as Temasek Holdings, there is no need for disclosure. Unless the govt acted on it, they are entitled to disclose whatever details them wanted to.

Even for listed companies, the CEO salary need not be disclosed to public, just disclosing the band, say how many execs earn 100-500k, 500k-1m, 1m and above etc. So still subject to your interpretation.

When you donate, you already know you have to pay for the staff salary, rental, advertising etc. For the tV show, they prob need to get sponsors from OSim etc.

As for the tap, i agree thats a bit extravagant.... but maybe you did not visit the building.... i can tell you the tap is nothing compared to the building and reno....

 

[Hommie]

Cannot recall by in excess of S$1m i think...

Not really, for Singtel's CEO Mr Lee is paid $2.3 million annually. He received S$2.1 million - came in the form of cash and other benefits. Mr Lee was also granted performance shares worth about S$1.8 million.

If you don't lump the shares(valuation would change according to market) and other options together, they not more than the basic of a yearly income.

 

[poohbear]

Pls to NKF ....
1) STOP SENDING ME THOSE LETTERS/ENVELOPES ASKING ME FOR DONATION, IT'S A SHEER WASTE OF PAPER AND MONEY WHEN U SEE ALL OF THEM ENDED UP EITHER ON THE FLOOR OR THE RUBBISH BIN..... PART OF YOUR 'OTHER EXPENSES' ??

2) PLS INDICATE EVERYTIME U FLASH THE NUMBER TO CALL , THE NUMBER OF CALLS IT REPRESENTS BIGGER.
Thank you !!