Comparison of Cameras


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stupidbear

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:think: Guys, since there's some minolta users here,

Would like to ask if it's smarter to invest in a 5D compared to a D70? I know nuts about 5D as i'm really new in this area of photography. Anyone advise?

1. Any pros and cons to consider?
2. Lens wise, does it have lens like 18 - 70 mm and 70 mm - x mm ??
3. Picture and colour quality compared to Nikon ?

Also, price wise, I think 5D is pretty attractive. Less than 1.3 for a new set right ?
 

Minolta Pros

- Cheaper bodies that also have more features than the equivalent Nikon or Canon systems

Cons

- Lack of High end speciality lenses (i.e Nikon has a 200/f2 and Canon has a (discountinued) 200/1.8. Also many lenses in Canon are USM for faster and silent focusing. I am not sure why its hard to make USM lenses for Minolta, the Sigma HSM lenses also are only available for Canon and Nikon mounts.

For normal consumer lenses its the same between all three. If you're shooting just casually the kit lens (18-70) a higher range zoom lens like 70-210/f4 or 75-300 and 50/1.7 are easy to get.



For color I find that post processing plays the biggest factor. Some ppl say that the out of camera Jpgs from Minolta DSLRs are the best. I havent really compared them side by side, here's one from dpreview http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/konicaminolta7d/page22.asp .For me Digital pics all look the same, film still has the better color :)
 

reno77 said:
Minolta Pros

- Cheaper bodies that also have more features than the equivalent Nikon or Canon systems

Cons

- Lack of High end speciality lenses (i.e Nikon has a 200/f2 and Canon has a (discountinued) 200/1.8. Also many lenses in Canon are USM for faster and silent focusing. I am not sure why its hard to make USM lenses for Minolta, the Sigma HSM lenses also are only available for Canon and Nikon mounts.

For normal consumer lenses its the same between all three. If you're shooting just casually the kit lens (18-70) a higher range zoom lens like 70-210/f4 or 75-300 and 50/1.7 are easy to get.

Faster? :bigeyes:
USM does not equates to Faster focusing......

rgds,
sulhan
 

probably the fastest AF module from minolta is in Dynax 9 and the other series 9 cameras. but not silent.
 

So basically for a basic DSLR, Minolta is much "noiser" compared to it's competitors ? TT's all ?
 

forbytes said:
probably the fastest AF module from minolta is in Dynax 9 and the other series 9 cameras. but not silent.

Eh... I actually find that Dynax 7 has faster focussing than Dynax 9....

D7D has slightly faster AF than Dynax 7 in couple of lenses (ie, 80-200 f2.8 APO G HS)... but Dynax 7 film focusing is much reliable.


re: comparison 5D vs D70
I am not sure how far you want to bring your photography... if you are looking for something that is nice to use and are happy with one or 2 lenses.... you will be happy with either one and next what you consider is your budget. As long as it fit in your budget and you like to use the gear, that is the one you should get.

I would choose Minolta 5D simply because of the price and feature wise.

I am working with couple of photographer who uses Canon 20D, Minolta seems to give truer results in terms of colour and sharpness... I prefer the image come out from my 7D, of course this might seems to be on bias side, but I am sure a lot of people in this forum will agree...


Hart
 

Don't forget that the 5D (and 7D) has built-in AS (Anti-Shake) system :thumbsup: which works with the majority of Minolta and 3rd-party lenses in the market. Canon/Nikon has the equivalent IS/VR but that is built into specific lenses only.

To see the result of AS, just look at steady-hands-Agetan's recent posting of images from the Sydney Motor Show. Even though USM was applied, you can only get such sharp images from sharp originals. Check out the EXIF info---some shots were taken at 1/10s handheld :o.
 

sulhan said:
Faster? :bigeyes:
USM does not equates to Faster focusing......

rgds,
sulhan
Confirm faster! Canon 300mm f/4 USM is faster than my 300mm f/4 NOTHING. :(
tested and proven.
 

apchoo said:
Don't forget that the 5D (and 7D) has built-in AS (Anti-Shake) system :thumbsup: which works with the majority of Minolta and 3rd-party lenses in the market. Canon/Nikon has the equivalent IS/VR but that is built into specific lenses only.

To see the result of AS, just look at steady-hands-Agetan's recent posting of images from the Sydney Motor Show. Even though USM was applied, you can only get such sharp images from sharp originals. Check out the EXIF info---some shots were taken at 1/10s handheld :o.
1/10s! :o

Dat's my current handheld record which took me 5 tries to get it right! :o
 

Drudkh said:
Confirm faster! Canon 300mm f/4 USM is faster than my 300mm f/4 NOTHING. :(
tested and proven.
Well, I guess. U win some, u lose some. :(
 

Drudkh said:
Confirm faster! Canon 300mm f/4 USM is faster than my 300mm f/4 NOTHING. :(
tested and proven.



Is yours the HS version? It is one of the fastest minolta lens and really do feel quite fast. But I admit not having tried the canon 300mm hsm before.

Digi
 

jsbn said:
1/10s! :o

Dat's my current handheld record which took me 5 tries to get it right! :o
:nono: proven is 2 secs on my 16mm fisheye! :bsmilie:
 

Okay bear..

Here's my take...

Get what you can afford. Be it Nikon, Canon or Km...ot the others.
None of which is perfect. Sooner or later you will probabaly run in to some shortfall... such as :
- need faster lens
- need special effects...
- need comfort on grip
- need more battery power
- need flash
- need vibration reductions as you need to shoot your little baby.....without flash...
....the list goes on

My advice is one you get it...then explore with what you have. If there are weakpoint...learn how to overcome it - does not mean buying new equipment & all the time
mostly ppl refusing to learn......

If you are just a hobbyist...then make the photographic experiecne a good one, by slowly learn and improve as you go and invest in better equipment if you feel the need as you advance.

Well, if you are PRO(one who demand the best of the best although you do have PRO shooting with cheap cameras - depend on your type of photography some Pro use P&S and yet can already meet their needs) and going for the best out there and can afford to fish out $$$ and get it break even in a couple of months...then...its a different story.

In the industry....$$$ classification is how it works....(referring to DSLR).
- $1K ~$2K
- $2K~$3K
....and so on....

The 5D obviously is in the $1K~$2K range and so on....

If you were to look at the SYSTEM cost.....then here is what a complete rough system it looks like for say an average starter...who want to have eveything although just the Body+Kit lens can bring you very far already -

- Body + Kit Lens - $1250 (assuming 5D)
- Mid-Tele to Tele- $300 (75-300)
- Flashgun - $250
- Tripod - $120
- Accesories -(includes filters, cable release...etc bla bla bla..) - $300
- Bag - $120
Total....would be about $2500 - the price of a $2K range body....alone
The above applies for other brands too...

However, if you feel that your setup is not "that good" :bsmilie: same reason for many...
Then the setup would look liek this....even for a 5D based system...

- Body + Kit Lens - $1250 (assuming 5D)
- fast wide - $650
- fast Mid (28-75) - $550
- fast tele (affrodable third party - onless you wanns go for SSM @ $3.1K)-$1400
- Flash Gun $500
- Tripod - $120
- Accesories -(includes filters, cable release...etc bla bla bla..) - $300++
- Bag - $120
Total....would be about $4500 - :bigeyes: :dunno:

Oh man!!!! look at the difference...$2K delta!!!!! justifiable?......depends on your requirements......maybe

...This again applies to other systems..that have VR lens or IS lens...price deltas if you wana go for vibraiton reduction ...

Therefore to answer your question...
1. Any pros and cons to consider?
Above are some $$ related example...

2. Lens wise, does it have lens like 18 - 70 mm and 70 mm - x mm ??
Lens all have. On AF speed wise...it depends greatly on the type of lens design and lens.
Fast short travel focus lens may have tendency for Front/Back focus problems.
Long travel (high resolution) AF though may thought to be slower (just because they travel longer to get from close focus to infinity), may have less Back Focus/Front Focus problems as slight error movement in the AF will not change focal plane that quickly.
Take for example a macro lens which feel like slow focus.....but due to the large focus distance movement of the focusing (high resolution) that is suitable for pin pointing focus plane in Macro focusing - if a fast short travel is used, then slight shift in AF will cause image to be defocussed easily.
Thats why in some lens like Macro and Telephotos like the 300mm/400mm/600mm...they are equiped with focus limiters...to avoid AF to rack the whole
distance if you know the subject is at a predetermined distance....



3. Picture and colour quality compared to Nikon ?
Picture quality these days all are the same as i can say.....it depends greatly
on how well the user use his equipment and how well the user is familiar with his equipment.


rgds,
sulhan
 

sulhan said:
Faster? :bigeyes:
USM does not equates to Faster focusing......
Yes, it does. USM/SWM glasses focus faster.



sulhan said:
Picture quality these days all are the same as i can say.....it depends greatly
on how well the user use his equipment and how well the user is familiar with his equipment.
Also, the optics involved, the sensor design and the post processing.
 

sulhan said:
Fast short travel focus lens may have tendency for Front/Back focus problems.
Very true, especially for screw driven lenses.

Long travel (high resolution) AF though may thought to be slower (just because they travel longer to get from close focus to infinity), may have less Back Focus/Front Focus problems as slight error movement in the AF will not change focal plane that quickly.
Take for example a macro lens which feel like slow focus.....but due to the large focus distance movement of the focusing (high resolution) that is suitable for pin pointing focus plane in Macro focusing - if a fast short travel is used, then slight shift in AF will cause image to be defocussed easily.
Again very true especially for screw driven lenses.

Thats why in some lens like Macro and Telephotos like the 300mm/400mm/600mm...they are equiped with focus limiters...to avoid AF to rack the whole
distance if you know the subject is at a predetermined distance....
True for all lenses.

It is also true that some AFS/USM lenses are not necessarily faster than screwdriven lenses, but they are the minority rather than the norm.

A screwdriven lens's performance is hugely dependent on the body's inbuilt motor torque and precision. A AFS/SSM/USM/HSM lens has a more consistent performance across bodies.

In general AFS/USM/SSM/HSM] motors are built within the lens and optimized for the lens. They avoid having a transmission train from camera body to the lens and there is no slack/movement/play compared to the normal screwdriven configuration. Given the SAME LENS design, AFS/USM/SSM/HSM lenses are capable of finer focusing adjustments and have faster acceleration/decceleration times for more precise focusing. This is manifested by an almost instantaneous start->stop->settle time compared to screwdriven lense which may have more overshoot/undershoot and experience more microhunting around the focus area.

Not to say that a screw driven lens would suck at focusing, no. I've been shooting alot with screw-driven lenses on my old Minolta 8000i and entry level D70 and getting good results everytime. However, when you try a AFS/USM/SSM/HSM lens of the same class, you will find that your hit ratios increase and minor AF errors are reduced.

When you have experienced using AFS/USM/SSM/HSM lenses for a while, you do wish that all lenses be constructed the same way.

Let's face it, Minolta would not have introduced SSM in their 70-200/300 (and even the unreleased 28-70G)lenses if they did not feel the need.


As for choice of camera. It all depends on a user's needs. If one is a hobbyist and you are unsure how deeply you'll be involved in the hobby, grab a Dynax 5D. It is simply the best bargain and performer at its price point at the moment. Minolta is a brand very suitable for hobbyists and light users because of the relatively cheaper bodies which are always packed with more features than the competition. This has been true for many years.

However, Minolta support in singapore is horribly lacking (I know it, because I've been to all their service centres from Teban gardens to Funan to Haw Par Technocentre.) frontline staff there are BAD in product knowledge compared to Sigma and Nikon service centres and if you require accessories and pro-level equipment you'll have a hard time searching for it even online. Most serious users would already know that by now. However, for hobbyists, this is not an issue and one can always change systems WHEN it becomes an issue.


My advice to a beginner is to never pre-empt or overestimate your needs. Just take what is best for you at your level. Switching equipment isn't so much of a pain that is made out to be, especially if one doesn't even own much in the first place. So if anyone new were to ask me what to buy for his first DSLR, my reply will still be Minolta as the reasons not to choose it are not yet applicable for beginners.
 

Zerstorer said:
Very true, especially for screw driven lenses.


Again very true especially for screw driven lenses.


True for all lenses.

It is also true that some AFS/USM lenses are not necessarily faster than screwdriven lenses, but they are the minority rather than the norm.

A screwdriven lens's performance is hugely dependent on the body's inbuilt motor torque and precision. A AFS/SSM/USM/HSM lens has a more consistent performance across bodies.

In general AFS/USM/SSM/HSM] motors are built within the lens and optimized for the lens. They avoid having a transmission train from camera body to the lens and there is no slack/movement/play compared to the normal screwdriven configuration. Given the SAME LENS design, AFS/USM/SSM/HSM lenses are capable of finer focusing adjustments and have faster acceleration/decceleration times for more precise focusing. This is manifested by an almost instantaneous start->stop->settle time compared to screwdriven lense which may have more overshoot/undershoot and experience more microhunting around the focus area.

Not to say that a screw driven lens would suck at focusing, no. I've been shooting alot with screw-driven lenses on my old Minolta 8000i and entry level D70 and getting good results everytime. However, when you try a AFS/USM/SSM/HSM lens of the same class, you will find that your hit ratios increase and minor AF errors are reduced.

When you have experienced using AFS/USM/SSM/HSM lenses for a while, you do wish that all lenses be constructed the same way.

Let's face it, Minolta would not have introduced SSM in their 70-200/300 (and even the unreleased 28-70G)lenses if they did not feel the need.


As for choice of camera. It all depends on a user's needs. If one is a hobbyist and you are unsure how deeply you'll be involved in the hobby, grab a Dynax 5D. It is simply the best bargain and performer at its price point at the moment. Minolta is a brand very suitable for hobbyists and light users because of the relatively cheaper bodies which are always packed with more features than the competition. This has been true for many years.

However, Minolta support in singapore is horribly lacking (I know it, because I've been to all their service centres from Teban gardens to Funan to Haw Par Technocentre.) frontline staff there are BAD in product knowledge compared to Sigma and Nikon service centres and if you require accessories and pro-level equipment you'll have a hard time searching for it even online. Most serious users would already know that by now. However, for hobbyists, this is not an issue and one can always change systems WHEN it becomes an issue.


My advice to a beginner is to never pre-empt or overestimate your needs. Just take what is best for you at your level. Switching equipment isn't so much of a pain that is made out to be, especially if one doesn't even own much in the first place. So if anyone new were to ask me what to buy for his first DSLR, my reply will still be Minolta as the reasons not to choose it are not yet applicable for beginners.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:


rgds,
sulhan
 

Zerstorer said:
However, Minolta support in singapore is horribly lacking (I know it, because I've been to all their service centres from Teban gardens to Funan to Haw Par Technocentre.) frontline staff there are BAD in product knowledge compared to Sigma and Nikon service centres and if you require accessories and pro-level equipment you'll have a hard time searching for it even online. Most serious users would already know that by now. However, for hobbyists, this is not an issue and one can always change systems WHEN it becomes an issue.


My advice to a beginner is to never pre-empt or overestimate your needs. Just take what is best for you at your level. Switching equipment isn't so much of a pain that is made out to be, especially if one doesn't even own much in the first place. So if anyone new were to ask me what to buy for his first DSLR, my reply will still be Minolta as the reasons not to choose it are not yet applicable for beginners.

the more i use, the more i felt like changing my system... ;p

thinking of going to the darkside, but see the lens so ex, abit sianz... den wanna go the L side... den see the viewfinder also sian... so small...
 

jsbn said:
1/10s! :o

Dat's my current handheld record which took me 5 tries to get it right! :o

eh... actually the lowest I go is 1/8s @ f9.5 70mm with AS on...
51391412.jpg


That is how effective the AS is...

Hart
 

Agetan said:
eh... actually the lowest I go is 1/8s @ f9.5 70mm with AS on...
51391412.jpg


That is how effective the AS is...

Hart
Yahoo.... 1/8s :bigeyes:
I knew that AS technology now is effective, but I never knew its this good.

My handshake problem is terrible & it comes on at all the wrong times. :(
 

Depending on what you shoot most often, entry DSLR like KM 5D, D70s, 350D might or might not be fast (focusing wise) enough for you.

Minolta was never known for fast focusing bodies compared to Canon.
Maybe it is the algorithm or the technology, I am not sure. The fastest DSLR in market today is the Canon 1D mark II series. But that is a different league and it cost a fortune - At least to me.
 

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