Comments on Pictures posted, lies or truths?
- Thread starter Deadpoet
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Deadpoet said:
if the pic is bad, i want constructive criticism. if the pic is good, i want sincere praise.
i think ppl should be honest and constructive with their criticism without being unduly rude or obnoxious.
there's nothing wrong with being polite. i also don't see why the critic can't give a particularly stinging criticism via PM to the OP. give some face to others, and you will be the better person for it. it has been said, "if u have nothing nice to say, say nothing". if u feel the pic is undeserving of praise, either say nothing or PM the OP to state ur views. u can also PM the other ppl who posted in the thread to say how wrong they were. of cos u r also free to state how horrible/sucky/undeserving/crappy in the thread, just be prepared for some defensive responses to ur post.
what's wrong with respecting what many posters want? it's horses for courses.
it's good that niceness and civility knows no bounds. this behaviour may seem abhorrent to you, but it may be pleasant to many others.
why get so bothered by other ppl's behaviour? let them be. if it makes them happy, so be it. you can derive your own happiness by continuing to learn from your mistakes, improving and building on your accomplishments. at the end of the day, enjoyment of the photography hobby means different things to different ppl.
peace.
The_Cheat
Senior Member
zaren said:
There's nothing wrong with being sarcastic as well...
PM is an option. But it may not be the best way in some cases, where there's absolutely no reply from the receiving end, which would inevitably come across as rude and therefore causing the critic even less motivation on the forum. There are a lot of good critics around in CS really, but most have just got so discouraged about the whole wind in CS that they decided to shut up. PMing, especially those without replies, would become the worst-case scenarios to critics.
Furthermore, critiques are not just for the benefit of the poster. Well-constructed critiques, which require a lot of effort, are best suited to post it up for everyone to see. There are a number of threads in CC which are educating to anyone who are bothered to read them. By limiting the critique to PM, it will inevitably remove the chances of other people from benefitting the POV.
Anyway, my take on the topic is that there's absolutely nothing wrong with people saying something is nice. It's even better if the person giving positive review say what he/she like about it. Everyone has different perspective, and what is nice to one will inevitably be crappy to another. Sometimes some praises could make one wanna take a second look at the picture, and probably getting oneself to appreciate something one had never thought of before. Most of the time that may not be the case though. But hey! We don't win TOTO everytime too, but people still buy them religiously don't they?
There's really no consensus of what is a good photograph anyway, so why should we restrict with the point of view that there are some "rubbish" photos that are more suited for the bin?
The answer to your question is simple--
a. Because people don't like to be criticised;
b. Because people don't like the way you criticise them (I've read some of your posts, they are biting criticism).
As to the rest of it,
* Why people give praise to undeserving pix-- because they don't know better.
* Why posters come up with all kinds of defensive reactions and excuses-- because they don't like to be criticised.
* How can they improve if they don't like to be criticised-- what makes you think they want to improve in the first place? In any case, whether or not someone else improves is not necessarily your concern, is it?
I think people like yourself find, after a while, that if posters don't appreciate their harsh criticism, then they also don't feel like wasting time. Yes, it's a loss for the posters, but on balance everyone is happier, so be it.
That said, I must tell you that your style of harsh critique will create more misunderstanding and unhappiness than it will create learning and enlightenment, so you'll have to think if it's worth it.
You should realise that it is not essential to "comment" on every picture that you come across. If you don't like it, you can simply tune out. If you want to criticise, you must know what is it you want to convey, and what is the purpose of your criticism. Is it to express your displeasure at such a sub-standard picture? Or is it to really help the poster?
To me, saying that hair is messy, eye not equal size, etc. doesn't help the poster. What is needed is ideas on how to make the picture succeed. Some pictures won't succeed even if the hair is neat. Perhaps the whole concept is wrong, or the theme is wrong, or the model can't carry it off. If you really want to help the poster, you have to help him see the big picture in areas such as this. Otherwise, if you just point out that the obvious problems such as messy hair or eyes not same size, it's easy for people to say you are just mudslinging, and hence adopt defensive reactions.
Something to consider : Photo.Net has Words/No Words and CRIT when it comes to posting pictures. Any pix prefixed by "W/NW:" is simply for enjoyment, not for criticism. If you don't like it, you should just move on, no criticism required or necessary. On the other hand, a photo prefaced by "CRIT:" means the poster is asking for critique, and if possible, it should be well-thought-out critique, not just saying "Nice" or "OverPS" or "Just a nitpick, xxx could be better", but how it could have been done, with pros and cons of doing something in a certain way, etc.
Real criticism is hard work, and lots of people can't do it well. That's why generally when I post pictures, I lock the thread-- I like to have it as W/NW.
Wai Leong
===
a. Because people don't like to be criticised;
b. Because people don't like the way you criticise them (I've read some of your posts, they are biting criticism).
As to the rest of it,
* Why people give praise to undeserving pix-- because they don't know better.
* Why posters come up with all kinds of defensive reactions and excuses-- because they don't like to be criticised.
* How can they improve if they don't like to be criticised-- what makes you think they want to improve in the first place? In any case, whether or not someone else improves is not necessarily your concern, is it?
I think people like yourself find, after a while, that if posters don't appreciate their harsh criticism, then they also don't feel like wasting time. Yes, it's a loss for the posters, but on balance everyone is happier, so be it.
That said, I must tell you that your style of harsh critique will create more misunderstanding and unhappiness than it will create learning and enlightenment, so you'll have to think if it's worth it.
You should realise that it is not essential to "comment" on every picture that you come across. If you don't like it, you can simply tune out. If you want to criticise, you must know what is it you want to convey, and what is the purpose of your criticism. Is it to express your displeasure at such a sub-standard picture? Or is it to really help the poster?
To me, saying that hair is messy, eye not equal size, etc. doesn't help the poster. What is needed is ideas on how to make the picture succeed. Some pictures won't succeed even if the hair is neat. Perhaps the whole concept is wrong, or the theme is wrong, or the model can't carry it off. If you really want to help the poster, you have to help him see the big picture in areas such as this. Otherwise, if you just point out that the obvious problems such as messy hair or eyes not same size, it's easy for people to say you are just mudslinging, and hence adopt defensive reactions.
Something to consider : Photo.Net has Words/No Words and CRIT when it comes to posting pictures. Any pix prefixed by "W/NW:" is simply for enjoyment, not for criticism. If you don't like it, you should just move on, no criticism required or necessary. On the other hand, a photo prefaced by "CRIT:" means the poster is asking for critique, and if possible, it should be well-thought-out critique, not just saying "Nice" or "OverPS" or "Just a nitpick, xxx could be better", but how it could have been done, with pros and cons of doing something in a certain way, etc.
Real criticism is hard work, and lots of people can't do it well. That's why generally when I post pictures, I lock the thread-- I like to have it as W/NW.
Wai Leong
===
Deadpoet said:
enriching...
next time print the photos out in A4 and bring to Speakers Corner for critique
Comments can be direct but not harsh. They are to encourage and alter the mistakes that the photographer had made.
Does not require 一针见血， or sometimes even 一刀直入。:cry:
next time print the photos out in A4 and bring to Speakers Corner for critique
Comments can be direct but not harsh. They are to encourage and alter the mistakes that the photographer had made.
Does not require 一针见血， or sometimes even 一刀直入。:cry:
Insincere comments are lies are certainly not appreciated. But there is a big difference in choosing to be polite yet truthful, and being brutally honest and hurtful. I'm sure most of us have seen both.
Then there's a third scenario here where pictures get absolutely no comments at all. How is the photographer to improve if they don't even know whether they got the picture right?
Then there's a third scenario here where pictures get absolutely no comments at all. How is the photographer to improve if they don't even know whether they got the picture right?
LazerLordz
New Member
There are people who cannot take honest critiques in the forum because the correlation between the money + time spent on their gears is not proportionate to the quality of their photos.
And therefore, they have this brain-freeze mentality that they have a witch-hunt going after them.Jeez, the Salem Trials were long gone, these days, people take the piss out of you for a reason, not to satisfy some deity of political correctness, or lack thereof...
Let's keep it real and honest.If the chap cannot take the criticism, there's two paths available, firstly, reassess his/her photos through a 2nd or 3rd opinion.He/she could also choose to learn and improve humbly too.
Cheers. the less bollocks going on, the better.
And therefore, they have this brain-freeze mentality that they have a witch-hunt going after them.Jeez, the Salem Trials were long gone, these days, people take the piss out of you for a reason, not to satisfy some deity of political correctness, or lack thereof...
Let's keep it real and honest.If the chap cannot take the criticism, there's two paths available, firstly, reassess his/her photos through a 2nd or 3rd opinion.He/she could also choose to learn and improve humbly too.
Cheers.
the less bollocks going on, the better.If 5 pple reply to a photo saying it's 'nice' and only I reply offering serious C&C on how 'not-very-nice' it is, what's the photographer going to react? It's 5-vs-1, of course it's 'nice'!
The worst trap a photographer offering his photo up for (any kind of) C&C is falling in love with his own creation. He already has the mindset of what it is to him, he's just waiting for pple to agree. If it's truly a great photo there's no argument, but like many have put it, some pictures are really quite poor and they still get raved on with 'nice' comments.
I suppose some photographers are looking for simple C&C, nothing too hardcore/challenging. Thus 'nice' comments fit favourably into their expectations. It's nothing to do with suger-coating, just that they are simple pple offering simple C&C for simple photographers with simple photos. the rest of us hardcores just need to understand and leave them alone. ;p Though sometimes we forget and get sucked into offering hardcore C&C and come off feeling a stranger.
Well so far I haven't come across many such cases. 1-2 around somewhere.
A funny thought. What if one day the mods/admins decide to censor the words 'like', 'nice' & 'good'. All you see will be '**** the photo!!!' or '**** pictures!!!" Gives a whole different meaning, doesn't it? :bsmilie:
The worst trap a photographer offering his photo up for (any kind of) C&C is falling in love with his own creation. He already has the mindset of what it is to him, he's just waiting for pple to agree. If it's truly a great photo there's no argument, but like many have put it, some pictures are really quite poor and they still get raved on with 'nice' comments.
I suppose some photographers are looking for simple C&C, nothing too hardcore/challenging. Thus 'nice' comments fit favourably into their expectations. It's nothing to do with suger-coating, just that they are simple pple offering simple C&C for simple photographers with simple photos. the rest of us hardcores just need to understand and leave them alone. ;p Though sometimes we forget and get sucked into offering hardcore C&C and come off feeling a stranger.
Well so far I haven't come across many such cases. 1-2 around somewhere.
A funny thought. What if one day the mods/admins decide to censor the words 'like', 'nice' & 'good'. All you see will be '**** the photo!!!' or '**** pictures!!!" Gives a whole different meaning, doesn't it? :bsmilie:
I am not a good photographer, and to the extend that I suck big time. But what deadpoet said is true, there is quite a bit of insincere comments on pics posted here. I see ppl giving glowing praises to posters whose pic really need mile and miles of improvement.
A soft or OOF pic is a soft or OOF pic. No point trying to say u are trying to go for the soft focus look.
A messy pic can be easily identified, you can almost certainly tell if it was intentionally taken that way or it was a lack of control of details.
All too often, u still see ppl singing praises for such pics.
I for some reason like harsh critisim. I may feel unhappy about it, but it makes mi go back and look that the sh*t I have taken and try to improve on it. Like focusing, framing, lack of variation, usage of AI servo when taking action pics and the lack of attention to details. I get to learn all these through critisims, though i am still trying to work on these areas.
Remembered once when i post some pics that the color were totally off. I ask for comments, but well, no one gave any. Was a little disappointed in that. Maybe no one was interested in the topic, so vrey few ppl looked at the pic. Who knows. But than, no comments is still better than insincere comments.
A soft or OOF pic is a soft or OOF pic. No point trying to say u are trying to go for the soft focus look.
A messy pic can be easily identified, you can almost certainly tell if it was intentionally taken that way or it was a lack of control of details.
All too often, u still see ppl singing praises for such pics.
I for some reason like harsh critisim. I may feel unhappy about it, but it makes mi go back and look that the sh*t I have taken and try to improve on it. Like focusing, framing, lack of variation, usage of AI servo when taking action pics and the lack of attention to details. I get to learn all these through critisims, though i am still trying to work on these areas.
Remembered once when i post some pics that the color were totally off. I ask for comments, but well, no one gave any. Was a little disappointed in that. Maybe no one was interested in the topic, so vrey few ppl looked at the pic. Who knows. But than, no comments is still better than insincere comments.
thin, slender, anemic, slim.
fat, obese, stout, plump.
clever, smart, intelligent, smart-as*
dumb, low-intelligence, dull, slow, stupid.
get my point? many ways of saying, essentially, the same thing. DP, while u like to call a spade a spade, there are many ways of saying the pic suck, as u so succinctly put it. sure. freedom of speech, as u espoused time and time again, which gives one the 'license' to speak one's mind. unfortunately (or fortunately), even in the land of the free (USA), freedom of speech is tempered by responsibility of getting the facts straight. hence, slander and libel laws, which (IMO) some singaporeans who look towards US as a model fail to note.
perhaps, DP, u ought to re-look at the way u critique others' pics? there are many ways of saying, essentially, the same message. but, the difference between sending the messenger on his/her merry way with glad tidings, after he said his piece vs cutting off the head of the messenger is in a few words. if u have nothing good to say abt the pic, dun say. if u wish to critique, perhaps season ur speech with salt.
fat, obese, stout, plump.
clever, smart, intelligent, smart-as*
dumb, low-intelligence, dull, slow, stupid.
get my point? many ways of saying, essentially, the same thing. DP, while u like to call a spade a spade, there are many ways of saying the pic suck, as u so succinctly put it. sure. freedom of speech, as u espoused time and time again, which gives one the 'license' to speak one's mind. unfortunately (or fortunately), even in the land of the free (USA), freedom of speech is tempered by responsibility of getting the facts straight. hence, slander and libel laws, which (IMO) some singaporeans who look towards US as a model fail to note.
perhaps, DP, u ought to re-look at the way u critique others' pics? there are many ways of saying, essentially, the same message. but, the difference between sending the messenger on his/her merry way with glad tidings, after he said his piece vs cutting off the head of the messenger is in a few words. if u have nothing good to say abt the pic, dun say. if u wish to critique, perhaps season ur speech with salt.
LittleWolf
New Member
The inflationary use of "niceness" and praise where it is not warranted is insincere and devalues those positive comments based on merit. This insincerity is IMHO much more damaging to a community than occasional unflattering comments.
Del_CtrlnoAlt
Senior Member
honesty is virtue...
i see wat, i comment wat, and i seldom go around with the wah chio thing... cos, i think if i think its nice, i'd say y its nice..
and when i say its bad, i'll question the shooter, cos i wanna understand how come its so bad... ya i'm bad.... but i learn from their mistake mah... and i am just so damn straightforward... CHARGE!!!
anyway, if i post a pic, if someone say its nice, then i'll ask y its nice... cos nice also got FEEL mah... if u say its nice to console me as a bad shooter, i'd rather not have u as a fren... ... me no like hypocrites...
i see wat, i comment wat, and i seldom go around with the wah chio thing... cos, i think if i think its nice, i'd say y its nice..
and when i say its bad, i'll question the shooter, cos i wanna understand how come its so bad... ya i'm bad.... but i learn from their mistake mah... and i am just so damn straightforward... CHARGE!!!
anyway, if i post a pic, if someone say its nice, then i'll ask y its nice... cos nice also got FEEL mah... if u say its nice to console me as a bad shooter, i'd rather not have u as a fren... ... me no like hypocrites...
Isaiahfortythirtyone
Senior Member
hmm cool it yea guys? before it degenerates into a flame war again. :heart:
yes, there are some pics that i wonder why people even bother saying they're nice. i for one like honest criticism. if someone tells me my pics suck, i'm fine. i've gotten used to it. ;p and likewise, i try to give honest feedback too.
yes, there are some pics that i wonder why people even bother saying they're nice. i for one like honest criticism. if someone tells me my pics suck, i'm fine. i've gotten used to it. ;p and likewise, i try to give honest feedback too.
fotoudavid
Senior Member
i prefer to see macro and close up pics of spiders, ants, insects etc then go see portraits and post.
the little creatures can pose better, more natural, and harder to shoot. Alot of times you need to think harder.............
Upz for macro shooters!!!
the little creatures can pose better, more natural, and harder to shoot. Alot of times you need to think harder.............
Upz for macro shooters!!!
Del_CtrlnoAlt
Senior Member
smurfman said:i prefer to see macro and close up pics of spiders, ants, insects etc then go see portraits and post.
the little creatures can pose better, more natural, and harder to shoot. Alot of times you need to think harder.............
Upz for macro shooters!!!
actually i see macro section also got alot of ppl do same commentary like in protraits & pose lor... :sticktong
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