Coffee Table Books for Professional

[eclectyx]

...running on 2 shits for 16 to 24 hours operation and an army...

That bad huh? :devil: Sorry, I couldn't resist. Had a sudden NS flashback with that line and cracked up completely. Hysterical. :bsmilie:

But seriously, best of luck in your new venture, and please do keep CS'ers informed once you open up to non-pros. I do put together the occasional wedding album (doing one now) and would also consider this affordable enough to do personal travelogues/albums and photobook gifts, even with some markup on your side for the consumer market.

 

[igpenguin]

If the print last and quality is good. Would like to find out more too.

A guy named Mike contacted me about a month ago regarding coffeetable book too, wondering if its the same Mike.

My concern is only durability and quality.

Yes it's the same Mike!

I have full confidence in Winson's production capabilities, I distinctively remember my first visit when he showed me around his printing plant, telling me he services high end clients yada yada. He still continually boasts to me now ;p guess it's his pride and joy.

 

[igpenguin]

This sounds good to me too! I agree that your likely immediate market would be wedding photographers, since coffee table albums is one of the items we regularly sell. What I like about this is the paper - it sounds to me like I can finally do away with lamination (yay!)Getting quite sick of seeing the occasional bubble at the scoring line over extended time.

I think what we need to know is how you intend to position this alternative option to the consumer market - as a cheaper alternative to our current methods, or would you be pricing urself much higher than $89 for the consumer market (and maybe even higher than the conventional methods). Then we can work this new material into our own pricing/options structures.

My of-the-head worry is getting people used to the 200gsm paper. I think most couples are used to having thicker boards, so they might view this as "less glam" haha.

Please do keep me updated on this, and how I could make or view some samples.

about differentiating to the consumer market: that's a issue i have brought up with Winson as well. going by what's already the market situation overseas, consumer offerings like iPhoto books, shutterfly are priced lower rather than higher.

i think it also won't do that pros offer a certain level of materials and the consumer can get a better level of materials from a consumer service.

another differentiator as mentioned in Winson's reply is the level of quality of the pictures and design. ie Content and the skills required to produce it.

 

[igpenguin]

Will the print come off when touched. Things like sweat, grease, dirt, is these taken into considerations?

The process is ink, not toner based, so the ink is effectively "embedded" into the paper than coated like toner. sweat, grease, dirt: I guess any paper or materials is susceptible to external elements. Winson, your comments?

 

[igpenguin]

Bought them 2 years ago at $750,000 for HP 3050, $450,000 for HP 1050, being producing great work since. Offset, dot to dot, bet you can't tell the difference between a print from Indigo and Heidelberg. I must conduct this contest on the factory visit, bring your loop or magnifying glass to check. That's how our customers check their work.

High investment and high maintainence need a lot of work to survive. We need a production team of 6 just for digital print and a team of 12 for conventional offset presses, running on 2 shits for 16 to 24 hours operation and an army for binding and finishing. I wasn't too keen on printing just one book for one, until a couple of USA and European players contact us to produce photo albums for them for the Asian market. Getting very positive feedback from this forum and Mike Lee also helped.

Sure hope it's intelligent offering this service.:nono:

Cheers

Winson

hmmmmmmmmm we taking turns having cold feet?

 

[Winsonapm]

The process is ink, not toner based, so the ink is effectively "embedded" into the paper than coated like toner. sweat, grease, dirt: I guess any paper or materials is susceptible to external elements. Winson, your comments?

Unlike conventional offset printing which can print on almost any paper, a few hours is needed for the ink to "set-in" or dry. The Indigo offset ink can only be printed on Acid-free paper. The paper used is more expensive and printed copies dried instantly. It seals into the paper fiber.

Normal handling like flipping would not render the inks to peal, would not be scratch-proof with fingernails or sharp objects. Just like any offset printed coffee table books.

Cheers

Winson

 

[dDarkroom]

1. will it have a uv coat fininshing.

2. does the layout required 3mm bleed?

3. 40 pages? does it mean 20pp?

 

[igpenguin]

Here are some more pics of prototypes I have on hand.

Standard 12 x 8 offering. Eventually we should have a variety of cover finishings available.

Close up of stitch and binding.

 

[igpenguin]

Optional customisation for a 12 x 8 book. For this prototype the cover is printed. We are exploring the possibility of having a book jacket. The book is also screw-binded instead of sewn.

 

[igpenguin]

1. will it have a uv coat fininshing.

2. does the layout required 3mm bleed?

3. 40 pages? does it mean 20pp?

1. Still working this part out.

2. We will be standardising the layout template so you can design accordingly to ensure page accuracy.

3. Yup, 40 pages as in 40 printed sides, total 20 sheets of paper printed double-sided.

 

[p.k]

hi winson, please keep me in the loop as well regarding the monday visits. i believe u've struck a chord with the local pros who require high quality of print and finishing and a good level of customisation in design and layout. keep up your good and hard work! it's much appreciated. :thumbsup:

 

[TrailsofLife]

Thanks Winson,

Let me know if you are conducting field trips.

And Mike, Thanks for contacting me. I am finishing my last album for this month soon. Will contact you again regarding printing book.

cheers!
Max 2.8

 

[Winsonapm]

This sounds good to me too! I agree that your likely immediate market would be wedding photographers, since coffee table albums is one of the items we regularly sell. What I like about this is the paper - it sounds to me like I can finally do away with lamination (yay!)Getting quite sick of seeing the occasional bubble at the scoring line over extended time.

I think what we need to know is how you intend to position this alternative option to the consumer market - as a cheaper alternative to our current methods, or would you be pricing urself much higher than $89 for the consumer market (and maybe even higher than the conventional methods). Then we can work this new material into our own pricing/options structures.

Dear ALL,

What a pleasant surprise from the great response from this forum, dozens of emails, my PMs is overflowing. In my desperate attempt to read and reply, I’ve “empty folder”, a thousand apologies if I could not response.:dunno: I’ve never written so much in 2 days in my life, hard work for an old man that typed 20 wpm. Anyway, it’s a good problem.

A million apologies to those who are not wedding photographers and are interested in our offerings and services. We have to think of a way on how to make your monies later on.:bheart: We must stick to our original plan on offering to Professionals only. The initial soft launch was “packaged” for their business offerings. Working with Mike Lee on this wedding market for a start. He’s younger and can type faster.

We're a backend production hub for a couple of key photo album ASPs from USA and Europe. We're now branching out to cater to the wedding photographers in Singapore. Strictly B2B, as we are not geared up for consumer support and general enquiries. Mike will have to do these hard work.

Looks like the overwhelming responses to attend the factory visit will be packed for the first, second and third Monday evenings. Mike will be sending out invitations with info to your PM, on a first response, first serve basis, if you do not have emails with him (jam his PM, not mine).:devil:

I appreciated all the feedbacks, kind thoughts and encouragements from all of you.
Must do a good job and get good reviews, if not, no face after all the braggings.
Looking forward to meet some of you in person on your visit.

Kind regards

Winson Lan
www.apmedia.com

 

[psychomatic]

Penguin and winson, sorry ah, it is really not in my ability to collaborate in this business as much as i want to. I am a student >.< . My capital is erm, a few k at most, sadly.I have long foresee such a thing in Singapore, and let me give you guys my best wishes as the first of such a service. I would strongly support you ppl even though i cannot be of much help.

Anyway, if you guys need some suggestions or what, i'd be glad to offer my humble opinions. I'm rather certain this idea will kick off, and with that kind of prices, it would really be popular amongst the photographers(professional and consumers).

Currently, i believe there is no relevant competitors in Singapore. More people are turning to printing 4R photos and pasting them manually. However, be warned that similar services may sprout out. Besides, the lack of a customised software may irk people who duno how to use Adobe PS. This group of people is a considerable amount, so you all may want to offer relevant services to design the books for people. Otherwise, you all can get programmers to make a user friendly, idiot proof software that is very easy to use.

Just my 2cents worth. -Psycho

 

[zoossh]

hopefully your project with the professional sail on smoothly, and next with the consumers. i believe there is a huge market in the consumer area. i understand the difficulty with dealing with individuals who will only print 1-2 copies of the same item, but if a workflow can be established at an affordable rate, i can foresee hundreds from clubsnap alone.

Dear ALL,

What a pleasant surprise from the great response from this forum, dozens of emails, my PMs is overflowing. In my desperate attempt to read and reply, I&#8217;ve &#8220;empty folder&#8221;, a thousand apologies if I could not response.:dunno: I&#8217;ve never written so much in 2 days in my life, hard work for an old man that typed 20 wpm. Anyway, it&#8217;s a good problem.

A million apologies to those who are not wedding photographers and are interested in our offerings and services. We have to think of a way on how to make your monies later on.:bheart: We must stick to our original plan on offering to Professionals only. The initial soft launch was &#8220;packaged&#8221; for their business offerings. Working with Mike Lee on this wedding market for a start. He&#8217;s younger and can type faster.

We're a backend production hub for a couple of key photo album ASPs from USA and Europe. We're now branching out to cater to the wedding photographers in Singapore. Strictly B2B, as we are not geared up for consumer support and general enquiries. Mike will have to do these hard work.

Looks like the overwhelming responses to attend the factory visit will be packed for the first, second and third Monday evenings. Mike will be sending out invitations with info to your PM, on a first response, first serve basis, if you do not have emails with him (jam his PM, not mine).:devil:

I appreciated all the feedbacks, kind thoughts and encouragements from all of you.
Must do a good job and get good reviews, if not, no face after all the braggings.
Looking forward to meet some of you in person on your visit.

Kind regards

Winson Lan
www.apmedia.com

 

[igpenguin]

Hi folks,

For the short term we would be focusing on pros, but in the longer term definitely we won't leave the enthusiast out. There's a learning curve ahead of us, and we would like to build on our initial experience to eventually support the enthusiast. I hope this will happen sonner than later (Winson, you hear me? ).

I will be collating the contacts of those who expressed interest and sending out invitations by next week. The factory visits will start in early August, one session every Monday evening.

Thanks everybody for the support. It has been very encouraging.

 

[Winsonapm]

well, would love to know more when the option opening up to hobbyist. i dun possess knowledge regarding the field of desktop publishing and printing but i find my own experience of trying to make my own book is that cover is often of low quality or ugly designs and binding options are limited. i prefer the binding to be of 2 kind - either the japanese format of 30 hole per A4 length ring binding or those sewn type where the pages can opened up widely and easily (some pages are rigidly bound to the spine and the left and right page are difficult to open up to 180 degrees.)

Hi Zoossh,

For someone who "dun possess knowledge regarding the field of desktop publishing and printing", you have good taste for binding and finishing.

We have the whole binding facilities in-house, industrial strength equipments, not desktop that you see in the copyshop. You are referring to Wire-O, which we’ve 2 types.
1) Round hole with plastic spiral
2) Square hole with metal wire
We’ve never produce just for 1 piece; we are starting now with this new ondemand business.

Traditional coffee table books are printed in the thousands by humongous presses. Big sheets (25”X37” or 28”X40”) of 16 pages section, folded offline on a folder into a signature, thread-sewn signature by signature, glued into a book-block and trimmed to size. Finally case-onto the hard cover, usually with end paper. The higher quality/value books may come with a slipcase. With section sewn, you can spread flat.

With digital printing, smaller paper sheets size of 12’X18” are used. Different pages of a book are printed simultaneously (duplex). The whole book of a few hundred pages can be printed in a few minutes verse the traditional coffee table books which took days to print and days to bind. The smaller sheet are not folded, they are trimmed to size. Side-sewn or perfect bind (back glue), and hand case onto hard cover. Thus, without section and signature sewing, you cannot open “real flat”.

To overcome this limitation, we have developed a very unique binding method. As shown by Mike on this thread, the hard covers are broken up into 4/5 pieces with joints.
With a landscape design, the weight of the paper and spread will allow you to lay flat for reading. The side-sewn adds a classical look, the front page can be printed or personalized. Imagine, just for 1 book.

I hoped I’ve addressed your thoughts with this long technical (boring) explanation.:think:

Kind regards

Winson

 

[jsbn]

I’m very happy on the interests and feedback, many emails and PMs of which I could not answer one by one.

To answer some questions as to why we start with professionals, we’re looking at B2B, professionalism, and partnerships to get started. The needs for design, high-res files and knowledge are beyond the average consumer. Almost all the high-end production company focus on professionals and not end-users, they do not publish their prices on their sites. Professionals spent time to design and need to mark-up for profits.

I'm positioning A&P Coordinator to be the best in this region, producing for trade professionals from USA, Europe, Japan, Australia, etc. A trade shop has to focus on production, quality and delivery. Sales and Marketing is a totally different game. There's also a conflict of interests if we start to sell to consumers. We do not have to develop our website, get marketing staff, talk to individual buyer one by one, etc. No extra overheads, no headache (different, if any), hopefully a steady stream of business from trade professionals.

My objective is to be the best in prices and quality in the market and to create value for the trade and end users at the same time. Focus on the pro first, followed by the hobbyists and amateurs later. When we've done covering the pro market. We’ll be targeting the "Limited Edition" needs, printing 5, 10, 50 and 100 books market. With limited resources, we need to concentrate on volume in a niche market.

The general idea is to offer a “no-brainer”, create the design in one size to produce 3 different books. This could be a first in the industry/market. 10 working days to delivery will be the norm. Surcharge for urgent work, maybe 2 to 5 working days if required.

I think we’ve created the biggest sizes possible in the industry/market. Maximising on the technology, possibilities and reducing wastages.
The finishing is hand-stitched and hand bound 1 by 1, the binding is unique. (Mike, you should shoot some pic and post it online)

The sizes are final, standard 40 pages for content.
1) Grand - 12.25" X 17.75" (landscape or portrait)
2) Classic - 8.5" X 12.25" ( " )
3) Pocket/Mini - 4.25" X 6" ( " ) (giveaway as gifts)
4) Square – 12.25” X 12.25”
- 8.75” X 8.75”
- 5.75” X 5.75”
5) Calendar - 12" X 17"
6) Poster - 24" X 36"
7) Additional cost for more than 40 pages, personalisations, leather cover, slevees/dust cover, slip-case, etc.

Mike and I will be organising a small group of 8 to 10 photographers to visit our factory over a few Monday evenings starting from 7th August, to view the production facilities and printed samples and to understand the technicalities. On the day of visit, we'll provide info, brochures, pricing and spec guide. Better interaction and feedback for a small group too. My meeting room is small and not very classy. Need RSVP.


Cheers

Winson

Hi! Keep me in ur loop would certainly be most interested in a visit. :thumbsup:

 

[zoossh]

I hoped I&#8217;ve addressed your thoughts with this long technical (boring) explanation.:think:

not boring at all. we look forward to services where passion and professionism combines. can see that y'alls have the drive. a forum is a gd place to gather individual sales if that option is opened next, by words of mouth, deals comes fast.

so wish y'alls gd luck....

 

[bedrock]

just a quick question... is it possible to print full bleed (edge to edge)? some online printing services do not allow that for their photobooks.

regards