alternatve
Senior Member
I suppose you could get it repaired, at a premium of course. There are external meters you could get as well.
Classic Cameras in Singapore
- Thread starter jazzguy
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I suppose you could get it repaired, at a premium of course. There are external meters you could get as well.
I would recommend the Leica M2 as an entry level to the world of Leica M series. Its affordable and quite usable. With regards to the metering, you can have an external meter (think VC has one, has to check with Chiif). Leica itself has its meter but that would add cost to your M2.
Frankly, if you look at the those pictures in the old books, you have to remember that those were taken with the M2, M3, M4 and the screwmount and hardly any of the masters do use a meter attached to the top. Of course, this would be a tough task for newbies but its through hands on experience and experimenting with different settings after getting a guideline on the apertures and shutter speeds from books, that you are able to learn and perfect your skills.
A Leica M2 in user condition could cost anything between $700 to $1000 for the body itself. At this price, you are not expected to replace any internal parts. Rather, it could be a chipped vulcanite, or mostly external defects which you have to accept because you are after all paying the price of a user set.
Frankly, if you look at the those pictures in the old books, you have to remember that those were taken with the M2, M3, M4 and the screwmount and hardly any of the masters do use a meter attached to the top. Of course, this would be a tough task for newbies but its through hands on experience and experimenting with different settings after getting a guideline on the apertures and shutter speeds from books, that you are able to learn and perfect your skills.
A Leica M2 in user condition could cost anything between $700 to $1000 for the body itself. At this price, you are not expected to replace any internal parts. Rather, it could be a chipped vulcanite, or mostly external defects which you have to accept because you are after all paying the price of a user set.
In Singapore, classic cameras collecting is pretty different from those in Europe or the US. We are quite similar to the Indonesian and Malaysia collectors. We collect mainly the "elite" stuff and not so adventurous. Of course, there are exceptions. In recent years, I noticed that the camera folks at Hong Kong and China have a good mixture of both. On one hand, they have the "elite" stuff and on the other hand, they go for even stuff like 127 type cameras. Japan and Korea are pretty well established in the collectors' circle. They even have a Alpa and Leica and Topcon clubs!
In US, the variety of collectors are amazing. I know one collector who specializes only on Jewelry type cameras and another solely on pinhole cameras. It is through meeting these folks that I became more diversified in my collecting for the past 15 years. In Singapore, I know folks who collect Zeiss but strictly the Ikontas and Contarex. Seldom we will see somebody with a full range ranging from the cheapest ones to the more expensive cameras in the Zeiss cameras.
The lack of variety in our local market do disturb me. Are we going to end up with a lot of Yashica GSN and GTN and FSU bodies and lenses in the years down the road? (By no means I am saying they are bad cameras, hope you all understand) Even in TLR, most people care only for Rolleiflex. Yes, I have my fair share of Rolleiflex as well but I am more fascinated by the Superb and the Ikoflex. How about Stereo cameras? So far I only know a couple of collectors into them. Even in collecting Nikon SLR, I noticed that the China folks are only aiming for F2 and a few of them actually called me from China to enquire about my Nikon F2s. I asked that day whether anyone knows is that a Asahi RF(ex-Pentax), I would be thrilled to know if somebody here in Singapore collects that
Must mention a friend of mine who is into Olympus RF collecting. His collection of the 35RC, 35RD and 35SP are amazing. Besides that he also has the full range of the half frame Pen-F. I really learn a lot from him and understand more about Zuiko lenses. Get a Olympus 35SP if possible
In US, the variety of collectors are amazing. I know one collector who specializes only on Jewelry type cameras and another solely on pinhole cameras. It is through meeting these folks that I became more diversified in my collecting for the past 15 years. In Singapore, I know folks who collect Zeiss but strictly the Ikontas and Contarex. Seldom we will see somebody with a full range ranging from the cheapest ones to the more expensive cameras in the Zeiss cameras.
The lack of variety in our local market do disturb me. Are we going to end up with a lot of Yashica GSN and GTN and FSU bodies and lenses in the years down the road? (By no means I am saying they are bad cameras, hope you all understand) Even in TLR, most people care only for Rolleiflex. Yes, I have my fair share of Rolleiflex as well but I am more fascinated by the Superb and the Ikoflex. How about Stereo cameras? So far I only know a couple of collectors into them. Even in collecting Nikon SLR, I noticed that the China folks are only aiming for F2 and a few of them actually called me from China to enquire about my Nikon F2s. I asked that day whether anyone knows is that a Asahi RF(ex-Pentax), I would be thrilled to know if somebody here in Singapore collects that
Must mention a friend of mine who is into Olympus RF collecting. His collection of the 35RC, 35RD and 35SP are amazing. Besides that he also has the full range of the half frame Pen-F. I really learn a lot from him and understand more about Zuiko lenses. Get a Olympus 35SP if possible
alternatve
Senior Member
I guess the collecters in singapore are already small in number, plus rare cameras are hard to find. And, most of the collecters like the usual brands then something unconvensional. People who use classic cameras go for the usual as there is a wider variety of spare parts, lenses and accessories then the rare ones, cheaper too. But yes, it is a waste.... =\
The_Cheat
Senior Member
In Singapore, classic cameras collecting is pretty different from those in Europe or the US. We are quite similar to the Indonesian and Malaysia collectors. We collect mainly the "elite" stuff and not so adventurous. Of course, there are exceptions. In recent years, I noticed that the camera folks at Hong Kong and China have a good mixture of both. On one hand, they have the "elite" stuff and on the other hand, they go for even stuff like 127 type cameras. Japan and Korea are pretty well established in the collectors' circle. They even have a Alpa and Leica and Topcon clubs!
In US, the variety of collectors are amazing. I know one collector who specializes only on Jewelry type cameras and another solely on pinhole cameras. It is through meeting these folks that I became more diversified in my collecting for the past 15 years. In Singapore, I know folks who collect Zeiss but strictly the Ikontas and Contarex. Seldom we will see somebody with a full range ranging from the cheapest ones to the more expensive cameras in the Zeiss cameras.
The lack of variety in our local market do disturb me. Are we going to end up with a lot of Yashica GSN and GTN and FSU bodies and lenses in the years down the road? (By no means I am saying they are bad cameras, hope you all understand) Even in TLR, most people care only for Rolleiflex. Yes, I have my fair share of Rolleiflex as well but I am more fascinated by the Superb and the Ikoflex. How about Stereo cameras? So far I only know a couple of collectors into them. Even in collecting Nikon SLR, I noticed that the China folks are only aiming for F2 and a few of them actually called me from China to enquire about my Nikon F2s. I asked that day whether anyone knows is that a Asahi RF(ex-Pentax), I would be thrilled to know if somebody here in Singapore collects that
Must mention a friend of mine who is into Olympus RF collecting. His collection of the 35RC, 35RD and 35SP are amazing. Besides that he also has the full range of the half frame Pen-F. I really learn a lot from him and understand more about Zuiko lenses. Get a Olympus 35SP if possible
I haven't come across many local camera collectors, and especially so here in CS. This forum is really more for photographers, and the membership is mostly made up by people who are fresh in photography, and wanting to learn more about starting out. I am definitely not representing everyone here by saying this... but most people here are more interested in trying different cameras or lenses or equipment, than actually going about to collect a whole series of camera. And given that less people are moved by the prospect of shooting on film, classical camera become an even less mainstream idea here in CS. It's amazing sometimes when I go out with a Yashica 35GSN in my hand (IMO a toy camera really) and people keep on giving that look as if it's some queer thing.
Collecting camera is really another kind of discipline as compared to taking of photographs. The reality here in CS is that people tend to get one or two camera, either sell them later or keep it in the drybox, and get another one or two camera with different specifications. Whether they are classical or brand new model is up to the person's preference. It's amazing when you see some CS members changing 2 or 3 systems every year...
I think there are definitely camera collectors here in CS, lurking around in the depth of shadows. Many of them can only be bothered with the B&S section, looking for deals, or selling their gears away. In order to get them out into the light, I think effort should be taken in having some more guided discussion, specific ones about the different cameras and history.
The_Cheat
Senior Member
A lot of camera collector are camera users too. They take picture just like you and I.
There are some collectors who only cheong at those limited edition cameras, unwilling to let any film to pass through it at all. I know a guy who has a NIKON FM2T that is still shrinked wrap till today. According to him, the camera is kept in that way for investment purposes. I think it's just a waste to buy a camera and stare at it... that's why I could never be a collector.
clubgrit
Senior Member
I am not a collector of anything these days, but I can understand how it feels to be one. Displaying your collection, staring at it surely gives pleasure to owners.
Now hold it ... I guess I am a collector after all, but this time I am collecting pictures and negatives and slides
Now hold it ... I guess I am a collector after all, but this time I am collecting pictures and negatives and slides
CZJena
Member
These bring us to a few points here:
1. What is the *ultimate* intention of going into "photography" ?
2. What and how much will we gain from it?
3. What are the Relationship between "provider" and "collector"?
Point 1.
People goes into "photography" because ...
1a. create still images in 2D
1b. owning equipment
1c. discounted or investment
1d. donation of equipment or images
1e. testing equipment
Point 2.
2a. being proud of creation; discovery; to annoy others; exert influence (+ & -)
2b. being proud of owning/showing-off their collection; historic research
2c. monetary gain now or future
2d. self satisfaction & realization by sharing; building community
2e. extra knowledge from test
Point 3.
3a. photographer get images from model/subject, something get recorded
3b. photographer is paid, subject may pay (free for nature)
3c. provider sell high (or low because of flaws, trade-in or cashflow), collector buy for future prospect.
3d. provider is promoter (or mad), collector is lucky (or motivated)
3e. provider sell better/worst, collector gain technical info
The list goes on...
1. What is the *ultimate* intention of going into "photography" ?
2. What and how much will we gain from it?
3. What are the Relationship between "provider" and "collector"?
Point 1.
People goes into "photography" because ...
1a. create still images in 2D
1b. owning equipment
1c. discounted or investment
1d. donation of equipment or images
1e. testing equipment
Point 2.
2a. being proud of creation; discovery; to annoy others; exert influence (+ & -)
2b. being proud of owning/showing-off their collection; historic research
2c. monetary gain now or future
2d. self satisfaction & realization by sharing; building community
2e. extra knowledge from test
Point 3.
3a. photographer get images from model/subject, something get recorded
3b. photographer is paid, subject may pay (free for nature)
3c. provider sell high (or low because of flaws, trade-in or cashflow), collector buy for future prospect.
3d. provider is promoter (or mad), collector is lucky (or motivated)
3e. provider sell better/worst, collector gain technical info
The list goes on...
clubgrit
Senior Member
You have to separate a collector from a photographer (or any non-collector), they are entirely different. Of course, the collector can be a photographer too, and vice versa.
I know one person who collects rare records, and he doesn't even have a record player ! Well, if it brings him joy, so be it.
Just understand and there is nothing to argue about between collector and non-collector.
I know one person who collects rare records, and he doesn't even have a record player ! Well, if it brings him joy, so be it.
Just understand and there is nothing to argue about between collector and non-collector.
The_Cheat
Senior Member
While I think I will probably never understand the joy of collecting cameras, I have learned quite a bit about photography from camera collectors, even those who don't actually take photographs. Collectors tend to be more observant in how the camera are made, noticing how each knob is place, and how a model is much more valuable than another one of the same manufacturer. These knowledge are real eye-openers for me, for I'm so bad at noticing the subtleties of cameras, so much so that once you remove the brand name of the camera I would probably not know what camera it is.
So it is good that jazzguy here is willing to share his expertise of his camera collecting experiences and knowledge to the photographers here who are as ignorant as I am.
So it is good that jazzguy here is willing to share his expertise of his camera collecting experiences and knowledge to the photographers here who are as ignorant as I am.
wa.. can tahan meh? won't he at least open to see if its in gd condition?
CZJena
Member
Well, from marketing and consumer behavior point of view:
Buyer started out to source for the best camera affordable, by asking for opinions, gathering information and comparison prices vs makes...
On the other hand, the marketeers has target revenue/profit to make, they observe consumer behaviors, create perceptions and educates them on based on their differentiations(brands etc.) to promote their products...
The first tier maker/marketeers rip the profit and create new product to encourage continuous purchase, of course earlier starting by offering quality, then by penetration with lower price alternatives, they also add on more features on the way.
Along the flux of buying and selling, consumers may also notice the trends and technological changes and hope to capitalize (tangibly or non-tangibly) based on their information known, some studies deep into the competitive manufacturing process and design, and looking for investment opportunities, and ...
Soon, the traders and auctioneers are here too...
Likewise the magazines and books...
What i am noticing here is the collector market/economy.
Does all these has to do with people phototaking? yes and no
Again depends on individual's needs
Does you find your higher-self through these?
You find your own answer and don't get lost.
Buyer started out to source for the best camera affordable, by asking for opinions, gathering information and comparison prices vs makes...
On the other hand, the marketeers has target revenue/profit to make, they observe consumer behaviors, create perceptions and educates them on based on their differentiations(brands etc.) to promote their products...
The first tier maker/marketeers rip the profit and create new product to encourage continuous purchase, of course earlier starting by offering quality, then by penetration with lower price alternatives, they also add on more features on the way.
Along the flux of buying and selling, consumers may also notice the trends and technological changes and hope to capitalize (tangibly or non-tangibly) based on their information known, some studies deep into the competitive manufacturing process and design, and looking for investment opportunities, and ...
Soon, the traders and auctioneers are here too...
Likewise the magazines and books...
What i am noticing here is the collector market/economy.
Does all these has to do with people phototaking? yes and no
Again depends on individual's needs
Does you find your higher-self through these?
You find your own answer and don't get lost.
For those who are into Chinese cameras collecting, check out this website. You will not see big catalogues of China rare cameras but instead you will see how cameras collecting in China is stil very much alive .... with collectors who started as early as 1950s. Do you know that China had their Camera Auction since 1980s and there is a Beijing Camera Collectors Association?
http://www.camprice.com/pub/show/Beijing01/index.html
Wouldn't it be great to see a wide variety of cameras from China, Russia, Italy, Czechoslovakia and other countries(other than Germany and Japan)in a camera fair.... if we ever ever have one
http://www.camprice.com/pub/show/Beijing01/index.html
Wouldn't it be great to see a wide variety of cameras from China, Russia, Italy, Czechoslovakia and other countries(other than Germany and Japan)in a camera fair.... if we ever ever have one
The_Cheat
Senior Member
The experiences I have with chinese camera is rather limited, but those that I saw are mostly imitations... some folder camera look and function exactly like the Agfa Isolette and the newer Shen Hao field camera look exactly like Ebony. So am just wondering if there is any chinese camera that is distinctive, rather than being a rip-off of certain known models.
The_Cheat
Senior Member
tahan? shrink wrap should be able to tahan what? isn't that what shrink wrap is for?
Wow, this forum is sure getting interests aroused from different angles.
ChiiFei, looks like you need to organise the get together/mini convention/seminar or what you may call it real quick.
The exchangers of information and knowledge during the sessions would be most invigorating.
ChiiFei, looks like you need to organise the get together/mini convention/seminar or what you may call it real quick.
The exchangers of information and knowledge during the sessions would be most invigorating.
timothychanzl
Member
Right now I onlyafford to buy cameras that I intend to use.
But when I start working full-time, I would definately buy cameras for collection.
Its an unbeatable feeling when you hold a Russian Jupiter 12 and tell others the story behind it. That it was a copy of the famed Carl Ziess Biogon ...
I love cameras because apart from it being a storytelling tool, they all have a story to tell, whether it is one of communist ambitions, or German precision or Japanese ingenuity.
But when I start working full-time, I would definately buy cameras for collection.
Its an unbeatable feeling when you hold a Russian Jupiter 12 and tell others the story behind it. That it was a copy of the famed Carl Ziess Biogon ...
I love cameras because apart from it being a storytelling tool, they all have a story to tell, whether it is one of communist ambitions, or German precision or Japanese ingenuity.
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