earthlings
New Member
If you ask me today which camera to buy. It can only be D70. What else can I say? Nothing else comes close to it or can beat it for value and features. 
Canon or Nikon DSLR which is better
- Thread starter HMC
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i come across one who insist that will not buy S2 or d70 or d100 cos the prism used is actually mirror and not real prism. thing is: how long did the mirror in your toilet last before you have to change it cos its turning black?
some insist white lens better cos in the sun it reflects heat then attracts it. then how often you shoot under hotsun?
some insist white lens better cos in the sun it reflects heat then attracts it. then how often you shoot under hotsun?
gooseberry
Senior Member
surge said:
Canon's L lenses are white because they use calcium flourite glass to reduce CA. Calcium flourite's sensitivity to temperature changes can affect focusing because it can change the lens' refractive index (flourite also easily cracks). The white colour probably reduces the amount of temperature rise the lens experiences in direct sunlight.
Nikon invented ED glass, which also reduces CA, but doesn't have the drawback of calcium flourite, so no need for white lenses - although they do have some lenses available in grey.
I remember many years back when I was a schoolboy drooling over top range film SLRs because I have no money to buy even the cheaper semi-auto ones. Canon's brochures attracted me alot. To me, they did better marketing than Nikon (though that doesn't necessarily mean they are better overall than other brands). so naturally, I was attracted to Canon. And back in the days when they advertised the EOS 1000FN, 500 and 500n, I like the way they portray the cameras. Easy to use yet big on functions with its PIC modes. I remember they also got Andrea Agassi's endorsement!
So I started with Canon and till today, I'm a loyal Canon follower. Any regrets? NO! Canon is one fine camera manufacturer. I am thankful I never quite had any problems which system to choose or that I want to switch systems.
Without any formal survey done on my part, I would think more people are using Canon than Nikon. But again, that doesn't mean it is better in all aspects. But when you compare other brands like Minolta, needless to say there are definitely more Canon users than Minolta. I don't know why anyone would choose a inolta over Canon or Nikon but I'm sure they have their own reasons. At the end of the day, you make the images as a photographer.
I think the original question is a reasonable one, especially if you are a newbie. Unfortunately, there is no clear cut answer and inevitably, there is a danger that some kind of a war between camera brands would be started.
So I started with Canon and till today, I'm a loyal Canon follower. Any regrets? NO! Canon is one fine camera manufacturer. I am thankful I never quite had any problems which system to choose or that I want to switch systems.
Without any formal survey done on my part, I would think more people are using Canon than Nikon. But again, that doesn't mean it is better in all aspects. But when you compare other brands like Minolta, needless to say there are definitely more Canon users than Minolta. I don't know why anyone would choose a inolta over Canon or Nikon but I'm sure they have their own reasons. At the end of the day, you make the images as a photographer.
I think the original question is a reasonable one, especially if you are a newbie. Unfortunately, there is no clear cut answer and inevitably, there is a danger that some kind of a war between camera brands would be started.
n once u are canon...Canon great idea! then he will get to see that good pictures will appear in both nikon and canon camps. or if he insist the canon guy is better, then we switch cameras and i bet the canon but usind nikon guy will continue to be better...then we can declare him master bow....bow.....bow
master bow....bow.....bowHMC..... ur topic cannot become a war between Nikon and Canon user.....
Anyway........ look at this thread.... someone has a weird problem with D70
http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=86526
Anyway........ look at this thread.... someone has a weird problem with D70
http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=86526
nightpiper
Senior Member
gooseberry said:
if what u say is true, then can u explain to me why broadcast videocams still use fujinon lens that has calcium flourite elements in it. the fujinon lenses have all along been black since they invented this material to be used as lens since the 60s.
these lenses has gone thru wars, strikes, big events, deserts, etc. & there's no such problems as u mentioned. fujinon is still the no.1 lens in the whole broadcast industry. they have just introduced new lenses for the HD format.
nikon invented the ED glass so that they can make lens cheaper & yet sell u at the same price (reads increase their profit margin). there r more legendary MF lens from nikon in the pre-ED days than today. my 55mm 2.8 AIS micro is one of them, no ED but is in the legendary league. my 28-105mm has no ED but the results shows as if there was.
on the contrary, 28-85mmED still look as bad as the non ED ver. 24-120mm same thing, have touch it, tried it. my 70-300mmED is not anywhere better either.
hope this clears the myth of ED & calcium flourite glass.
I am so greatful for all the advise. You see I am not $$$ loaned thats why I have to make sure that I really get one brand that really give me value. Please forgive me for making the comparison.
So is it good to get a camera (Brand) that is popular so that I may pay less to buy 2nd hand accessories as there will many of them around.
So is it good to get a camera (Brand) that is popular so that I may pay less to buy 2nd hand accessories as there will many of them around.
surge said:
Actually, to the best of my knowledge both the S2 and the D100 have conventional pentaprisms.
Secondly, if you are worried about the the mirror in the "prism" housing failing, then you're forgetting the mirror that makes these cameras SLRs. Aside from one or two notables like the 1N RS for instance, all SLR cameras including the 1Ds and D2h have mirrors as an integral part of their function. If it's going to fail that easily, all the SLRs will fail supremely easily too.
And the white lens thing. Yes white is slower to absorb heat than black. But truth be told, Canon lenses have flourite elements which are particularly sensitive to heat and therefore need the white in the first place; Nikon's don't.
I'm not saying Nikon is better than Canon, just responding to disinformation.
HMC said:
bro... from my point of view..i find that nikon used lenses and accessories are more in the 2nd hand market... go to PP and walk ard and see see loh.
i still a nikon user, still playing ard with my Fuji S2pro... and recently brought a Canon 10D to play with...i find that both are good system... both have the pro and cons.... but for lenses and accessories wise i find that canon ones Originals are kinda on the EX side.... if cost is a issue to u... i propose that u try nikon.... but some seniors may oso suggest u look into 3rd part lenses like Sigma, Tamrom , tokina etc etc....
the choice is up to u man... to save even more... i would tink u can try getting used 3rd party... Great saving.... its all up to u... all we can do is lead u to the door.. wther u wanna walk thru this door or walk away is ur choice... no one can force u....My 2 cent....
*hahha Sounds like Martix leh..hahahha :blah:
gooseberry
Senior Member
nightpiper said:if what u say is true, then can u explain to me why broadcast videocams still use fujinon lens that has calcium flourite elements in it. the fujinon lenses have all along been black since they invented this material to be used as lens since the 60s.
these lenses has gone thru wars, strikes, big events, deserts, etc. & there's no such problems as u mentioned. fujinon is still the no.1 lens in the whole broadcast industry. they have just introduced new lenses for the HD format.
nikon invented the ED glass so that they can make lens cheaper & yet sell u at the same price (reads increase their profit margin). there r more legendary MF lens from nikon in the pre-ED days than today. my 55mm 2.8 AIS micro is one of them, no ED but is in the legendary league. my 28-105mm has no ED but the results shows as if there was.
on the contrary, 28-85mmED still look as bad as the non ED ver. 24-120mm same thing, have touch it, tried it. my 70-300mmED is not anywhere better either.
hope this clears the myth of ED & calcium flourite glass.
Well, I'm no expert - just going by what I've read; For those broadcast videocams, those lenses are usually encased in a housing which would protect them as shown in an example picture here
http://www.fujinonbroadcast.com/images/products/XA72x9.3.jpg
Calcium Fluorite does have a higher coefficient of thermal expansion and is quite softer than other materials used for lenses (see link)
http://www.jmloptical.com/level2/index.aspx?pagename=TechInfo/materialstable.aspx
Canon also have their own UD and Super UD elements which are similar to Nikon's ED, which are now in a number of their lenses.
For your 55mm micro AIS, I'm guessing that CA would not be a problem for this lens (a relatively short prime) and thus no need for ED or fluorite. I would say that CA becomes a bigger problem for long telephoto primes (longer distance, therefore if there is any dispersion of light rays, the further it has to travel - the larger the dispersion) and zooms with lots elements.
Besides, I wasn't saying that all fluorite/ED lenses are fantastic - it might all just be marketing - and you should choose a lense based on hard evidence and not because of some moniker like 'L' lens or 'ED' lens.
nightpiper
Senior Member
u got my point there. its all in the lens design & not so much of the L or ED thing (basically, marketing hype). therefore, u can see that even w/o big encasement on the L lens, photographers still bring their gear to desert & antartica to shoot documentries. so i dare say calcium flourite glass is not an issue at all.
for HMC, as long as u stay with the 2 big names, there r enough 2nd hand accessories for u to play with. if u r the type who likes to overclock a 2.4GHz P4 to 3.0GHz, i recommend u take the 300D & apply the hack. cheaper than D70 & have most of the functions of 10D. if money permits, i still feel the 10D is a better buy than the D100.
edited:
aiyoh, the pic u pointed to me is meant for studio use only. always stay in air con room. u need to look at those that r mounted on mobile video cams commonly use for news coverage & docu, they r totally black & not in any form of metal casing.
its all in the lens design & not so much of the L or ED thing (basically, marketing hype). therefore, u can see that even w/o big encasement on the L lens, photographers still bring their gear to desert & antartica to shoot documentries. so i dare say calcium flourite glass is not an issue at all.for HMC, as long as u stay with the 2 big names, there r enough 2nd hand accessories for u to play with. if u r the type who likes to overclock a 2.4GHz P4 to 3.0GHz, i recommend u take the 300D & apply the hack. cheaper than D70 & have most of the functions of 10D. if money permits, i still feel the 10D is a better buy than the D100.
edited:
aiyoh, the pic u pointed to me is meant for studio use only. always stay in air con room. u need to look at those that r mounted on mobile video cams commonly use for news coverage & docu, they r totally black & not in any form of metal casing.
gooseberry
Senior Member
Sorry, way off topic, but....
I never said calcium fluorite lenses were bad - in my original post I was just saying that the thermal characterisrics of calcium fluorite was one of the reasons stated for the white lens.
For the fujinon lens - here is an example of one of their field lenses
http://www.fujinonbroadcast.com/images/products/XA87X9.3ESM.jpg
If you look at all their lens products - they are all housed in a casing, whether studio or field.
As a side note about my comment earlier - ED and fluorite are very good optic technologies and it's not just totally marketing - but a lens having these elements does not automatically become a great lens. You need to look at the optical design of the lens - for example your 70-300mm ED lens, it has one ED element at the rear of the lens; the front elements of a telephoto would contribute the most if there were any CA flaws because the dispersion would get worse the further the light had to travel.
I never said calcium fluorite lenses were bad - in my original post I was just saying that the thermal characterisrics of calcium fluorite was one of the reasons stated for the white lens.
For the fujinon lens - here is an example of one of their field lenses
http://www.fujinonbroadcast.com/images/products/XA87X9.3ESM.jpg
If you look at all their lens products - they are all housed in a casing, whether studio or field.
As a side note about my comment earlier - ED and fluorite are very good optic technologies and it's not just totally marketing - but a lens having these elements does not automatically become a great lens. You need to look at the optical design of the lens - for example your 70-300mm ED lens, it has one ED element at the rear of the lens; the front elements of a telephoto would contribute the most if there were any CA flaws because the dispersion would get worse the further the light had to travel.
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