Canon EOS D60 -> Do I need it or not and other questions..
- Thread starter Adam Goi
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My my my, what have I started.
Let me first say that like Red Dawn, I too am very happy for the people picking up a D60, or any DSLR for that matter if that's what they want. Certainly, I have no doubt that anyone who buys the D60 will enjoy it.
My issue is whether some people, particularly if they are strapped for cash, could not be just as happy with a D30 if they leave the latest and greatest sentiment out of the equation. This applies to all however, not just those with tight finances, because I'm trying to get the point across that your self-confidence shouldn't need you to spend unnecessary money, whether you can afford it or not, to make you think you can take good pictures. Given that a D60 is selling for about S$4k, a D30 should only retail at about S$3k even brand new. Buy used, and you should be able to source one for S$2k. that is a lot of savings, for what is essentially good enough for 99% of the amateur applications out there.
I was just talking to CK about this, and I put the following to him that I think is very relevant:
There is nothing really wrong with (film) at all. I have two questions:
[1] do you shoot a mad amount such that the d-whatever will actually save you money?
[2] do you shoot assignments for profit or intend to shoot these assignments that depend on speed of capture and output?
If your answer to both questions is "No", then you don't need a digital SLR at all and you'll be perfectly happy with a film SLR. What's the relevance to this topic? Simply to re-emphasise that most people probably don't even need a D30, let alone a D60.
Of course, one of the great advantages of going digital, with a D30 for example, is that one gets out and hopefully takes lots of pictures. I've seen Streetshooter's work, and I'm a fan. He does his D30 proud in my opinion, and he's not suddenly going to have rubbish results just because he doesn't now use a D60.
As Simon testifies, the D30 delivers very good 12"x18" prints. Hands up all those of you who have ever printed anything bigger than that? As Erwinx argues, using the same rationale in my previous argument about ultra-sonic type lens motors, how many of you need a D60.
Kaipium, I'm not meaning to single you out, but your expression of love for the 1D, if I may put it that way, is typical of what I'm saying. Leaving the latest and greatest (in this case just greatest) sentiment out of the picture, and the average Joe would be far better served with the D60 than the 1D, even ignoring the price difference. The fact is, unless you need the fast AF and the 8fps and you're going to bang your camera about, then the D60 will do enough and give you 2 million more pixels in the bargain.
There's certainly nothing wrong with a little self-indulgence. But I'm trying to help some people who [1] really think the D30 will not serve the vast majority of their needs (certainly seems to be an existing situation, I haven't heard anyone yet acknowledge that the D30 would be good enough but they just want to spoil themselves with the D60; and I'm not referring to those already intending to buy, they have the money and have made their decision, good luck to them and I'm happy for them; it's those who are striving for the D60 but can't afford one and have to hold back, I'm saying, look HARD at the D30, no reason not to buy one and be happy with one) [2] those people who need to own a better camera to make better pictures (I'm saying, get over this envy thing, you can still take good pictures with a cheaper camera).
After all that, here's a link to a D1x image, full resolution. Take a look at it if you can spare the bandwidth, it's 2.2Mb. That's what a 6mp chip can do (and it's a pseudo 6mp chip too; the D60 in general delivers even better quality than this). Thing is, looking at it, it looks awesomely sharp. And then bear in mind that you're looking at an effective 20"x30" image on a 96dpi monitor. If you're looking at it on a 72dpi monitor then it's even larger. Now, a 3.3mp file such as the D30 produces, should produce the same quality to 15"x22". How many of you need to, and have ever, printed to 15"x22"? Or ever will for that matter?
Let me first say that like Red Dawn, I too am very happy for the people picking up a D60, or any DSLR for that matter if that's what they want. Certainly, I have no doubt that anyone who buys the D60 will enjoy it.
My issue is whether some people, particularly if they are strapped for cash, could not be just as happy with a D30 if they leave the latest and greatest sentiment out of the equation. This applies to all however, not just those with tight finances, because I'm trying to get the point across that your self-confidence shouldn't need you to spend unnecessary money, whether you can afford it or not, to make you think you can take good pictures. Given that a D60 is selling for about S$4k, a D30 should only retail at about S$3k even brand new. Buy used, and you should be able to source one for S$2k. that is a lot of savings, for what is essentially good enough for 99% of the amateur applications out there.
I was just talking to CK about this, and I put the following to him that I think is very relevant:
There is nothing really wrong with (film) at all. I have two questions:
[1] do you shoot a mad amount such that the d-whatever will actually save you money?
[2] do you shoot assignments for profit or intend to shoot these assignments that depend on speed of capture and output?
If your answer to both questions is "No", then you don't need a digital SLR at all and you'll be perfectly happy with a film SLR. What's the relevance to this topic? Simply to re-emphasise that most people probably don't even need a D30, let alone a D60.
Of course, one of the great advantages of going digital, with a D30 for example, is that one gets out and hopefully takes lots of pictures. I've seen Streetshooter's work, and I'm a fan. He does his D30 proud in my opinion, and he's not suddenly going to have rubbish results just because he doesn't now use a D60.
As Simon testifies, the D30 delivers very good 12"x18" prints. Hands up all those of you who have ever printed anything bigger than that? As Erwinx argues, using the same rationale in my previous argument about ultra-sonic type lens motors, how many of you need a D60.
Kaipium, I'm not meaning to single you out, but your expression of love for the 1D, if I may put it that way, is typical of what I'm saying. Leaving the latest and greatest (in this case just greatest) sentiment out of the picture, and the average Joe would be far better served with the D60 than the 1D, even ignoring the price difference. The fact is, unless you need the fast AF and the 8fps and you're going to bang your camera about, then the D60 will do enough and give you 2 million more pixels in the bargain.
There's certainly nothing wrong with a little self-indulgence. But I'm trying to help some people who [1] really think the D30 will not serve the vast majority of their needs (certainly seems to be an existing situation, I haven't heard anyone yet acknowledge that the D30 would be good enough but they just want to spoil themselves with the D60; and I'm not referring to those already intending to buy, they have the money and have made their decision, good luck to them and I'm happy for them; it's those who are striving for the D60 but can't afford one and have to hold back, I'm saying, look HARD at the D30, no reason not to buy one and be happy with one) [2] those people who need to own a better camera to make better pictures (I'm saying, get over this envy thing, you can still take good pictures with a cheaper camera).
After all that, here's a link to a D1x image, full resolution. Take a look at it if you can spare the bandwidth, it's 2.2Mb. That's what a 6mp chip can do (and it's a pseudo 6mp chip too; the D60 in general delivers even better quality than this). Thing is, looking at it, it looks awesomely sharp. And then bear in mind that you're looking at an effective 20"x30" image on a 96dpi monitor. If you're looking at it on a 72dpi monitor then it's even larger. Now, a 3.3mp file such as the D30 produces, should produce the same quality to 15"x22". How many of you need to, and have ever, printed to 15"x22"? Or ever will for that matter?
serendipity
New Member
Hi all. I just got one thing to say. 
A good and smart photographer should know how to maximise the function of his/her camera and lens to take good pictures. No matter what camera and lens he/she is holding.
Like a good cook always says, "there is no lousy ingredient, just good or bad dishes".
A good and smart photographer should know how to maximise the function of his/her camera and lens to take good pictures. No matter what camera and lens he/she is holding.
Like a good cook always says, "there is no lousy ingredient, just good or bad dishes".
Jed, no problem with your comments at all.
My expression is just a lust that comes about because of a chance to try out the camera (1D) and it is simply wonderful compare to the C2100UZ that I was using. It reminds me again so much of the joy of the SLR.
I still have my trusty Nikon F50 with me. It is a great camera. But I am not a pro and do not take too many pictures and always have this problem with films....sometime don't even have time to send it for development.
Recently am enjoying a new lease of photography life with the digital camera as it is so easy to download and share and display. But after the 1D, realise that the feature I miss most from the SLR is the mechanical zooming/framing compare to the motorise version of the c2100. Thats what makes me talk about the DSLR.....but have to be realistic also especially with regards to the price.
1D is defintely out of the range. Whether D30 or D60 or any other DSLR does not matter to me at the moment so the topic title has no meaning to me. I just simply want the mechanical zooming feature............just like the SLR.......
My expression is just a lust that comes about because of a chance to try out the camera (1D) and it is simply wonderful compare to the C2100UZ that I was using. It reminds me again so much of the joy of the SLR.
I still have my trusty Nikon F50 with me. It is a great camera. But I am not a pro and do not take too many pictures and always have this problem with films....sometime don't even have time to send it for development.
Recently am enjoying a new lease of photography life with the digital camera as it is so easy to download and share and display. But after the 1D, realise that the feature I miss most from the SLR is the mechanical zooming/framing compare to the motorise version of the c2100. Thats what makes me talk about the DSLR.....but have to be realistic also especially with regards to the price.
1D is defintely out of the range. Whether D30 or D60 or any other DSLR does not matter to me at the moment so the topic title has no meaning to me. I just simply want the mechanical zooming feature............just like the SLR.......
Try the Olympus E-10/20. It IS technically an DSLR, just that the lens is not interchangeable.
You're experiencing what I experienced personally. I shot with a Nikon FE for like 10 over years, became stagnant, got a Coolpix 950 2+ years ago, went almost fully digital, then miss all the SLR features, like DoF control and all. DSLRs are still out of reach, so I upgraded my FE with a F100 and went back to shoot slides.
Regards
CK
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