Canon 500D (T1i) vs Nikon D90

[Ouverture]

to use an IT analogy (since TS is in the IT industry), it's like worrying about whether a 320GB or 500GB hard-drive will be sufficient as a storage medium, and by the time a decision is made, a 1.5TB drive is already out in the market. Then we carry on with another 15 pages of debate on cost vs benefit...

Yes, well agreed.

And the greater the anticipation, the greater disappointment will be...

Especially when after using a while, you will find it does not meet your demand in quality, usability, etc....and BBB virus always attack people like us as we always outgrown the equipment very fast and you will find yourself admiring those with D90 and wonder why you didn't bought it in the first place.

It's very common. Just get the one you like it most at this moment in time. Let the worries come later as they definitely will...:bsmilie:

 

[attap seed]

i seriously tink u should read (or re-read)

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/notcamera.htm

photographer are different from camera collectors.

i am sure most ppl who simply loves to take pictures will happily accept any DSLR, film cameras, toy cameras, compacts, pin-holes... ... and go shooting.

we are happiest in the field (or studio), in front of great scene bathe in even greater light.

go experience yourself.

 

[MelbourneGuy]

Fear not, I'm not simply sitting here doing nothing. I'm heading out to Cathay Photo this afternoon to try the 450D with the battery grip and see if that makes any difference. If it does, problem solved!

 

[pinholecam]

Wow!! long thread!! I am an old newbie to digital photography too. Being old I have learned that technology keeps changing (improving). Your wishlist today will be realised tomorrow.So the question is are you going to keep on wishing?? There is no such thing as ideal deal at any given budget. Major makers like Nikon and Canon have enough lenses and bodies to satisfied ALL needs at a given price and what user wishes for will be realised in time...remember this is an expensive hobby if you need to have the best(ideal)..Looking back there were countless great shots produced by much much lesser equipment compared with today's standard. So it simply suggested that skill and an eye for subject is still paramount. So get yourself started with your pre determined budget and spend along the way. I would spend on better lens than body if I were you. good luck

Hee...hee... I once wished I could have one of those Star Trek communicators where they flip it open and say "Beam me up Scotty". Now every one has one
No news on the "Beam me up" part... yet... though

I'm really interested to see what happens to this thread in the end.
Like Taiwan Drama... (so long)

Upz! for this post to #304

 

[MelbourneGuy]

Update:

I just went back to Cathay Photo and tried the Canon 450D with the battery grip. Huge improvement! Now my little finger doesn't keep falling off the grip and the bottom corner of the camera doesn't poke me in the hand. One little problem though when holding it in landscape orientation. With the small 18-55 kit lens, the battery grip seemed to block my left hand from reaching through to hold under the lens. Has anybody else had this problem? The guy in the shop said the battery grip was mainly for bigger, heavier lenses that protruded further from the camera body. I wonder if I was holding it wrong. I was resting my left wrist under the battery grip and trying to reach through to hold the lens. Maybe I'm just supposed to hold the lens itself and keep my left wrist out of it.

I held the Nikon D5000 too. Same problem as the Canon 450D. My little finger kept falling off. The salesman said you cannot buy a battery grip for the D5000 either.

I am getting an e-quote tomorrow for the 450D + kit lens because I think I can get it new (the lens price when bought as a kit) for the same price people are advertising second hand. Keep the kit lens for a month or two, do some learning, and take my time to find a great deal on an EF-S 17-55 f2.8 IS USM lens second hand.

I will buy tomorrow! Anybody wanting to witness the end to this saga is welcome to come and watch (Cathay Photo at Marina Square)

 

[ZerocoolAstra]

congrats!
I was wondering how come you were talking about kit lens... so you're getting the kit lens first after all. Ya good idea.
Looking forward to your pictures once you familiarize with your new toy.

 

[Benosaurous]

Weight is the issue there, as is the 10MP resolution. I'm really disappointed with Canon's ergonomics on its 1000D/450D/500D bodies. Maybe I'll just buy the 450D, put up with it, and stop complaining...unless anybody can swing me towards Nikon's lenses. From the reading I've done, their best lenses don't have VR. A real shame.

there isnt any reason for you to put a vr into a wide angle lens. wide angle lens do not require fast shutter speed to stablized images, as 1/focal length, you can go 1/24 for 14-24, 1/60 for 17-55, however, not many will want these slow shutter, the least they go is 1/50, unless you wish to get motion blurred effect.

at such standard shutter speed, the vr has little effect of stablizing shot, as compared to tele photo lenses, when a little shake = major earthquake in the view finder as they require 1/100 and move to stablize.

besides, vr & is = 1 more part to repair, as these electronic parts spoil easier than your lens.

but enough of discussion, good luck with your 450D, you can close the thread now.

 

[MelbourneGuy]

It's not so much the wide angle I'm worried about for the IS/VR but more towards the 55mm range. I intend to use it as both a landscape lens (on tripod) but also as a walkaround lens. The walkaround part is where I think IS/VR would really benefit me. I'll update tomorrow when I buy my goodies!

 

[SVG84R]

dont worry about camera shake when using at 55mm range...shooting at this range without VR or IS is not an issue...in fact...VR or IS in the normal kit lens range is a good feature to have but not really essential..besides...new dslr these days have pretty good iso range and countering these camera shakes is as easy as increasing your iso..

 

[MelbourneGuy]

Update:

I just got an e-quote back from MS Color (I'm still waiting on one from Cathay Photo). The difference (GST inclusive) between getting the 450D kit with the 18-55 lens and getting just the 450D body alone is $175.

I've found a nice guy who is going to sell me his kit lens (used once, mint condition and only 6 weeks old) for $120. So I'm going to buy the lens from him.

That way I do my learning on something cheaper (helps with cash flow), don't lose that much when it's time to sell it, and if the worst comes to the worst and I find out photography isn't for me, I haven't wasted a hell of a lot of money.

 

[Shen siung]

Glad you made up your mind. Well to be fair, probably you had only thought for this since you start the thread (one week ago), so one week for a decision making aren't too long.

Good luck with your new cam.

 

[wildsoyabean]

we can now have an official thread of 500d vs d90 and how ts bought 450d in the end...haha

enjoy!
i have spent way too much on cameras

lets count
d90 + tamron +tokina +nikon + sb800 +tripod +bag + raynox +filters + blowers
1200 +850 +525 + 340 + 450 +120 +150 +120 +100 +10 = 3865 (over a period of 1 year = 322/month !!!) -all these just slight over a brand new d700.
time to up me skill level and get involve in stocks/weddings...no more buying of camera related stuff!!!!

 

[r0n1n]

i can't believe i've read all 16 pages just now :bigeyes:

@ TS, goodluck on your new toy and do share your images

i am not a canon or nikon user; but we are all into this hobby (or profession) so regardless of the gear we use what is important is that we get our images right and we are happy with it.

happy shooting everyone

 

[ditikolon]

dont worry about camera shake when using at 55mm range...shooting at this range without VR or IS is not an issue...in fact...VR or IS in the normal kit lens range is a good feature to have but not really essential..besides...new dslr these days have pretty good iso range and countering these camera shakes is as easy as increasing your iso..

Yes that's absolutely correct. I agree with you.

BUT,

IS/VR is really useful when you're shooting in low-light, no flash photography situations. Such as in a museum, or art gallery. The power of image stablization really shows when you can stop down your lens for more DOF, without compromising too much on ISO and the result?

Tastefully sharp pictures.

 

[MelbourneGuy]

I officially declare this saga OVER!

I went to buy my Canon 450D from MS Color at lunchtime today. The lady there (Florence) was very nice and they put the screen protector on for me (I always get fingerprints or dust caught under them). Very good service.

I compared this camera against a number of other options. Most notably, the Canon 500D and the Nikon D90. My main problem with the Canon 500D is that it shares the same flaw as the 50D (they share a similar sensor)...noisier images. Sure, you get an extra 3MP (from 12MP to 15MP), but you sacrifice image quality. I've seen a number of side by side image comparisons between the 450D and 500D at the same ISO levels and the 450D, in my opinion, produces better quality images with less noise.

Of all the new features in the 500D, most of them I'm simply not all that interested in:
- 15MP sensor (more megapixels at the expense of more noise)
- High ISO (again, images are noisier, even compared between 500D and 450D at the same ISO)
- Movie mode (would never use)
- HDMI out (would never use)
- Face detect (it's a DSLR, not a P&S)
- Creative auto mode (as above)

However, there are one or two features which I really would have liked:
- 920,000 dot LCD: I've seen it and it does look amazing. However, battery life is reduced from 500 shots (quoted) on the 450D to 400 shots (quoted) on the 500D.
- Peripheral Illumination Correction: This only applies to JPEGs. I want to primarily shoot in RAW and learn how to do post processing. But it would be nice to have for the times when you want a simple photo and don't want to worry about post processing.

I even compared the 450D to other Canon models like the 40D and 50D. The 40D is a step down to a 10MP sensor and getting a bit heavy. The 50D shares the same issue with the image noise due to the 15MP sensor, and again is a little heavy.

The Nikon D90 was a very real option for me...I considered it many times. It feels lovely to hold, has a big, bright viewfinder, top LCD, more autofocus points, better kit lens, sturdier built etc. It's a little heavy, but not too bad.

The main reason I decided on the 450D over the Nikon D90 is due to the bit depth. The Canon produces 14-bit RAW files, while the Nikon produces 12-bit RAW files. Does this matter? It depends who you ask to some degree, but I personally feel that it is a definite advantage. You see, I want to learn how to do post processing and produce some fantastic looking images. Whenever you do anything done in post processing that results in losing information, it's better to start off with a 14-bit image because you can afford to lose more without degrading the image so much. A Google search will reveal all, but if you're interested, you could have a look at http://www.earthboundlight.com/phototips/nikon-d300-d3-14-bit-versus-12-bit.html. It's just a single example.

I even looked at the Nikon D5000. It lacks an autofocus motor and the LCD screen is smaller. The grip is very small (my little finger keeps slipping off) and the gentleman at Cathay Photo told me that you cannot purchase a battery grip for this model. I know that the Canon 450D is just as bad to hold but I will buy a battery grip to solve this problem.

Another important factor in my choosing Canon is because I feel that they offer a greater selection of lenses which are suitable for where I want to aspire to (specifically, the L series F4 lenses).

So I've got my body, I'm getting my lens tonight, will get a dry cabinet tomorrow, and will get a battery grip before too long because it makes it so much more comfortable to hold. And at $880 for the body and $120 for a 6 week old mint condition kit lens (as an intitial stepping stone to better lenses), I feel that I've done very well from a value-for-money perspective.

A sincere thank you to everybody who took the time to offer some words of advice. I took it all on board and didn't make this decision lightly. Do I think I bought the best camera in the world? Of course not. But do I firmly believe that this was the best option for me in terms of budget, specifications, lenses and looking forward to future camera models? Absolutely.

P.S. Don't expect any snaps in the next day or two...I still have to redeem my 8GB memory card and bag from Canon before I can use it!

 

[Ouverture]

Congrats. Should have told us your visit to MSColor since I stay just 5mins away....

Anyway, happy shooting and share with us your shoots soon...

 

[MelbourneGuy]

Congrats. Should have told us your visit to MSColor since I stay just 5mins away....

Anyway, happy shooting and share with us your shoots soon...

Sorry about that. It was a mad rush during my lunch hour from City Hall and I got completely lost. 90 minute round time trip.

 

[twisted illusion]

I officially declare this saga OVER!

I went to buy my Canon 450D from MS Color at lunchtime today. The lady there (Florence) was very nice and they put the screen protector on for me (I always get fingerprints or dust caught under them). Very good service.

I compared this camera against a number of other options. Most notably, the Canon 500D and the Nikon D90. My main problem with the Canon 500D is that it shares the same flaw as the 50D (they share a similar sensor)...noisier images. Sure, you get an extra 3MP (from 12MP to 15MP), but you sacrifice image quality. I've seen a number of side by side image comparisons between the 450D and 500D at the same ISO levels and the 450D, in my opinion, produces better quality images with less noise.

Of all the new features in the 500D, most of them I'm simply not all that interested in:
- 15MP sensor (more megapixels at the expense of more noise)
- High ISO (again, images are noisier, even compared between 500D and 450D at the same ISO)
- Movie mode (would never use)
- HDMI out (would never use)
- Face detect (it's a DSLR, not a P&S)
- Creative auto mode (as above)

However, there are one or two features which I really would have liked:
- 920,000 dot LCD: I've seen it and it does look amazing. However, battery life is reduced from 500 shots (quoted) on the 450D to 400 shots (quoted) on the 500D.
- Peripheral Illumination Correction: This only applies to JPEGs. I want to primarily shoot in RAW and learn how to do post processing. But it would be nice to have for the times when you want a simple photo and don't want to worry about post processing.

I even compared the 450D to other Canon models like the 40D and 50D. The 40D is a step down to a 10MP sensor and getting a bit heavy. The 50D shares the same issue with the image noise due to the 15MP sensor, and again is a little heavy.

The Nikon D90 was a very real option for me...I considered it many times. It feels lovely to hold, has a big, bright viewfinder, top LCD, more autofocus points, better kit lens, sturdier built etc. It's a little heavy, but not too bad.

The main reason I decided on the 450D over the Nikon D90 is due to the bit depth. The Canon produces 14-bit RAW files, while the Nikon produces 12-bit RAW files. Does this matter? It depends who you ask to some degree, but I personally feel that it is a definite advantage. You see, I want to learn how to do post processing and produce some fantastic looking images. Whenever you do anything done in post processing that results in losing information, it's better to start off with a 14-bit image because you can afford to lose more without degrading the image so much. A Google search will reveal all, but if you're interested, you could have a look at http://www.earthboundlight.com/phototips/nikon-d300-d3-14-bit-versus-12-bit.html. It's just a single example.

I even looked at the Nikon D5000. It lacks an autofocus motor and the LCD screen is smaller. The grip is very small (my little finger keeps slipping off) and the gentleman at Cathay Photo told me that you cannot purchase a battery grip for this model. I know that the Canon 450D is just as bad to hold but I will buy a battery grip to solve this problem.

Another important factor in my choosing Canon is because I feel that they offer a greater selection of lenses which are suitable for where I want to aspire to (specifically, the L series F4 lenses).

So I've got my body, I'm getting my lens tonight, will get a dry cabinet tomorrow, and will get a battery grip before too long because it makes it so much more comfortable to hold. And at $880 for the body and $120 for a 6 week old mint condition kit lens (as an intitial stepping stone to better lenses), I feel that I've done very well from a value-for-money perspective.

A sincere thank you to everybody who took the time to offer some words of advice. I took it all on board and didn't make this decision lightly. Do I think I bought the best camera in the world? Of course not. But do I firmly believe that this was the best option for me in terms of budget, specifications, lenses and looking forward to future camera models? Absolutely.

P.S. Don't expect any snaps in the next day or two...I still have to redeem my 8GB memory card and bag from Canon before I can use it!

very good excerise, make it sounds like a great move... enjoy ur gears...

 

[ggodetucsamoht]

TS, nice to know you final step onto the ship which you will be travelling on. shoot more............

 

[MelbourneGuy]

Getting an Akarui dry cabinet tomorrow. I have the choice of either a 23L or 38L. What do you guys recommend?
All I'm going to store is the body, kit lens, a second lens later on and a battery grip. I'll probably keep my P&S Canon Ixus in there as well.