Buyers beware - HSMSigma

[Crashout]

I saw this ad http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=724137 last week in BnS and couldn't believe my luck. I've been looking for a 2nd hand 5D (I just can't afford a mk2) and I thought this was exactly what I was looking for. PMed the guy and arranged for a viewing. Told him straight off that I would pay the asking price.

We met up, I looked over the camera (and it was indeed as advertised, condition excellent), and paid the guy. All good so far.

Took the camera out for a spin over the weekend and found lots of dust spots on the sensor, and the battery wouldn't hold a charge. Well, its an old camera, so I would have expected that. No biggie, bought a new battery and decided to take the camera in to CSC for cleaning on Monday morning. Had them check if the mirror needed reinforcement as well and for the heck of it, decided to get them to do a shuttercount.

The shuttercount was 30K. I could not believe my ears. I asked the canon guy twice... Are you sure? 30k? He was sure.


I was shocked. So I texted this guy. Waited 12 hrs before he responded. (read from bottom up)

(I edited out his cell number) No reply after the topmost message from me.

Well, buyer beware definitely applies here. I'll take it as a lesson learnt. I honestly expected him to say 100 (halfway between 150 and 50) and I would have taken it. The very fact that he said he wanted to charge me 'rent' for the camera totally pissed me off. I couldn't believe it. If he had offered to refund the purchase, I would have returned it. The current crop of 2nd hand 5D's in BnS cost less, or the same with a grip and extra batteries thrown in.

Tips for future 5D buyers.
1. You can only check the 5D shuttercount at CSC, so don't take the sellers word for it.
2. Check the serial number. Serial numbers starting with 0 are from the first batch 5 years ago, and so on. Also, serial numbers starting with 0 and 1 have a poorer grade LCD (you can barely see it outdoors and the colours are washed-out) -> (I did not know this till it was too late, my bad)
3. First thing you need to do is bring it in for mirror reinforcement, its free.
4. If something's too good to be true, it generally is not true.
5. This seller is definitely not a standup guy so be wary if you are planning on buying something from him. (I find it strange that he did not 'close' the 5D sale after I bought it, I wonder if he has other sets that he's selling to other people as well...maybe one of those is the real <5K shuttercount model)

 

[night86mare]

ok, he lied about the shutter count.

everything else, to me, is just you ranting.

50 dollar for one week rental is fair price, he stated NO WARRANTY so frankly speaking, if he wanted to, he can tell you go and fly kite.

 

[eleveninth]

30k shutter count is ok what. Don't see why u would need to even change it. You're lucky he even replied to u & you're also lucky it wasn't any major problem like usb connection spoilt.

 

[jasonteoch]

why replaced the shutter when it is only at 30k?

 

[pokiemon]

dust spots - you should have checked on the spot (no pun intended).

battery - i would normally write off any batteries that comes along with it and buy a new one or ask for a discount for having to buy a new one.

shutter count - that is blatant lying but what else can you about it? btw, 5D shutter can last 50k.

 

[eleveninth]

dust spots - you should have checked on the spot (no pun intended).

battery - i would normally write off any batteries that comes along with it and buy a new one or ask for a discount for having to buy a new one.

shutter count - that is blatant lying but what else can you about it? btw, 5D shutter can last 50k.

thought it had a 100k cycle shutter life.

 

[jasonteoch]

dust spots - you should have checked on the spot (no pun intended).

battery - i would normally write off any batteries that comes along with it and buy a new one or ask for a discount for having to buy a new one.

shutter count - that is blatant lying but what else can you about it? btw, 5D shutter can last 50k.

I thought 5D shutter can last 100k...

 

[ManWearPants]

I have an even worse experience than yours. This is the risk of buying a used camera. You should learn to take a discount of what the seller describe. If it turns out genuine, good for you. If it turns out to be lesser, it is expected. I bought a camera body from an oversea seller that died after 6 days. Now don't know what to do with the body.

 

[wmayeo]

Even before you went to CSC, you should already contact the seller to inform him about what you discovered on the battery.
1 Week is quite a while for you to tell it is not holding charge.
Regards the shutter count & mirror replacement, what you see is "integrity" of his own or he's really ignorant of it, at least by the CSC receipt he should offer you discount over it to safeguard his reputation.
Help yourself as well, shutter count can check provided you brought a laptop on the spot (do a google search) or meet direct at CSC to deal.

 

[Crashout]

I had no issue with the battery, part and parcel since its an old camera. I had no issue with the dust spots as well which is why I didn't bother to contact him before sending it to CSC.

It's just the lie about the shuttercount and then charging me for 'rent'. I would not have contacted the seller if he had advertised 30k.

btw, there is no way to check the shuttercount of the 5D using a laptop, and yes I've done a google search for it. The shuttercount software is only for digic 3 processors and above. Even the 5DII doesn't seem to work with the software out there.

Even before you went to CSC, you should already contact the seller to inform him about what you discovered on the battery.
1 Week is quite a while for you to tell it is not holding charge.
Regards the shutter count & mirror replacement, what you see is "integrity" of his own or he's really ignorant of it, at least by the CSC receipt he should offer you discount over it to safeguard his reputation.
Help yourself as well, shutter count can check provided you brought a laptop on the spot (do a google search) or meet direct at CSC to deal.

dust spots - you should have checked on the spot (no pun intended).

battery - i would normally write off any batteries that comes along with it and buy a new one or ask for a discount for having to buy a new one.

shutter count - that is blatant lying but what else can you about it? btw, 5D shutter can last 50k.

No, I didn't replace the shutter. My sms was that the cost of replacing a shutter was 270. The point being, he advertised a shuttercount of less than 5k. If he had said he'd return a hundred (meaning I paid 1650) for it, I would have readily agreed and not given it another thought.

why replaced the shutter when it is only at 30k?

 

[Crashout]

So do you think its ok for someone to falsely advertise a product? Another word for it would be 'Scam'. Unfortunately (for me), there was no receipt of purchase or any form of contract, so like I posted 'lesson learnt'.

I think more people need to come forward and 'rant' and have these sellers blacklisted. I don't know if you can empathise unless you've been cheated of your own hard-earned money.

ok, he lied about the shutter count.

everything else, to me, is just you ranting.

50 dollar for one week rental is fair price, he stated NO WARRANTY so frankly speaking, if he wanted to, he can tell you go and fly kite.

 

[allenleonhart]

ok, he lied about the shutter count.

everything else, to me, is just you ranting.

50 dollar for one week rental is fair price, he stated NO WARRANTY so frankly speaking, if he wanted to, he can tell you go and fly kite.

hmm. not exactly honest dealing though. 30k vs 5k is a big difference. thats 25k worth of shots...

both side has part to play. seller was not too honest i'll say, and could had taken time to check his equipment, before producing wrong claims. buyer has to be smarter to check and stuff too:think:

 

[mynameisgreg]

Actually, i think its pretty good that ppl such as urself come forward. even though its mostly the same thing that happens everytime, i learn something new(mostly due to my ignorance), for example checking battery charge retention.

 

[st0pandst4re]

I once bought a 2nd hand cam with a shutter count of 33k+ too when the buyer said under 5k shutter count..

Didnt realise till one week later too.. no reason to make a big fuss about it as its your own fault for not checking yourself. IF I'am not wrong you can just check the shutter count from Flickr if you do not know of any other means (not sure if its accurate thou)

anyways that aside.. the cam worked greated! I dont see why people make a big fuss about shutter count.. Cams are meant to be used and not just stored at home.

(waiting to be shot at now)

 

[coolsigg]

To TS: I emphatise with your situation and applaud you for posting the info of the guy who "misrepresented" the condition of his camera. :thumbsup:

IIRC, there is a software that can check the EXIF and shutter count. It can be downloaded FOC from the web. What my friend did was to bring a laptop with the software installed and check the camera's SC on the spot.

Hope to share with all so that less people get scammed in future.

 

[Kit]

Shutter count is never an accurate gauge of the camera's actual condition.

I bought a brand new 1DS II which failed straight out of the box. How many shutter actuations would you expect on that one? A few hundred for testing purposes?

Bought another mint condition 1DS with actuations just over 7k (verified by Canon). Guess what? The shutter failed after I put it another 100+ actuations.

There you go.

 

[huggable]

AFAIK the SC of Nikon cameras can be checked in the EXIF, but not for Canon cameras.

Out of warranty cameras are sold "as-is" in B&S, unless the seller give some kind of personal warranty. The deal is complete once you hand over the money and say your bye-byes. Some "sellers" in B&S could be merchants, hence they're not entirely sure about the condition of the item they're selling.

I bought a D50 with "very low SC" from a Senior member. Trusted him on the SC as I didn't had a laptop then. When I found that the SC was more than 10k more I asked for a full refund, which he refused. I wasn't kicking a fuss about the actual SC, but the fact that the seller did not present the actual facts.

 

[night86mare]

So do you think its ok for someone to falsely advertise a product? Another word for it would be 'Scam'. Unfortunately (for me), there was no receipt of purchase or any form of contract, so like I posted 'lesson learnt'.

I think more people need to come forward and 'rant' and have these sellers blacklisted. I don't know if you can empathise unless you've been cheated of your own hard-earned money.

i think a lot of the other information you have posted is actually nothing wrong.

for example, yes, i don't agree with false advertising, but here are the facts:
1) you checked, and you didn't check shutter count, he also posted NO WARRANTY
2) technically NO WARRANTY means he doesn't have to entertain you after that
3) he is willing to give you refund less $50, i see nothing wrong with that part.

cheers.

 

[wmayeo]

I had no issue with the battery, part and parcel since its an old camera. I had no issue with the dust spots as well which is why I didn't bother to contact him before sending it to CSC.

It's just the lie about the shuttercount and then charging me for 'rent'. I would not have contacted the seller if he had advertised 30k.

btw, there is no way to check the shuttercount of the 5D using a laptop, and yes I've done a google search for it. The shuttercount software is only for digic 3 processors and above. Even the 5DII doesn't seem to work with the software out there.

see if this works for your camera.

 

[AbsolutKev]

thats not condition 10 as stated. thats lying. flickr also cant state sc all e time.