Anything Zeiss....

[ManWearPants]

Probably I could trial and test abit over the long weekends. Just manipulate the levels and saturation to enhance the contrast and see how it goes. Need to re take some pics using the Planar 50/1.7 on raw then.. Thanks.

Once you get the hang of it, download and try out Adobe Lightroom 4. It is like a one-stop shop for you to organize, post process, print or upload.

Certainly. Learn to use the "S" curve and balance your contrast with clarity and vibrance, avoiding clipping, and at times, readjusting the WB to produce more realsitic color. I am 67, and I had the same feeling about post processing in the past, and I thought all my cheap lenses were no good. Today, I shoot only in raw mostly with my kit lenses.

Anthony, you are most modest. Ditch your Nex and come back to Canon. There have been a lot of talk about A900 not exhibiting the Zeiss effect enough. Not sure if it is the same with Nex series. But I find Nex too small for me to handle. 6D is small, light and FF.

 

[Anthony Lee]

I am very satisfied with my old NEX 5N if I want to use my legacy lenses. I have ais 28f2.8, 105f2.5, CV 58f1.4 ais, Pentax M 200f4 and Minolta MD 300f4.5. All are cheap but good and carefully selected lenses for specific purposes and they are really good enough for me on the super cheap NEX 5N. In terms of size and weight for example, my NEX 5N with EVF with Minolta MD 300f4.5 weigh in only below 1 kg. I can shoot this setup handheld the whole day and with focus peaking and excellent EVF. No DSLR can match for size and weight and maybe usability. I may go for 2nd generation Fuji XPro or X-e in future when LR gets a better handle of the X-trans sensor. I am thinking of replacing everything I have with the Fuji X100s plus X20, then I can be good for the next 3 to 5 years. Hope I can live long enough to enjoy them.

NEX 5N with EVF with SGD 100 Pentax M 200f4 (360 gm). Sure I like to have better lenses but I see nothing wrong with this cheapo.

 

[ManWearPants]

I am very satisfied with my old NEX 5N if I want to use my legacy lenses. I have ais 28f2.8, 105f2.5, CV 58f1.4 ais, Pentax M 200f4 and Minolta MD 300f4.5. All are cheap but good and carefully selected lenses for specific purposes and they are really good enough for me on the super cheap NEX 5N. In terms of size and weight for example, my NEX 5N with EVF with Minolta MD 300f4.5 weigh in only below 1 kg. I can shoot this setup handheld the whole day and with focus peaking and excellent EVF. No DSLR can match for size and weight and maybe usability. I may go for 2nd generation Fuji XPro or X-e in future when LR gets a better handle of the X-trans sensor. I am thinking of replacing everything I have with the Fuji X100s plus X20, then I can be good for the next 3 to 5 years. Hope I can live long enough to enjoy them.

NEX 5N with EVF with SGD 100 Pentax M 200f4 (360 gm). Sure I like to have better lenses but I see nothing wrong with this cheapo.

Nothing wrong with a cheaper lens as long as you are happy with it. Seems like you are moving further away from Canon FF + Zeiss combo. There are more bodies which alternative lenses can be mounted on nowadays so choices and opinions are more diverse. I have wanted to move to a smaller setup but am continued to be stuck on DSLR sized bodies for various reasons. It will take a while for the transition to happen.

 

[Anthony Lee]

Nothing wrong with a cheaper lens as long as you are happy with it. Seems like you are moving further away from Canon FF + Zeiss combo. There are more bodies which alternative lenses can be mounted on nowadays so choices and opinions are more diverse. I have wanted to move to a smaller setup but am continued to be stuck on DSLR sized bodies for various reasons. It will take a while for the transition to happen.

All of us set our own expectation and change is the most difficult thing to do in life. I made the switch and will never touch a DSLR again. I chose NEX 5N because of the sensor, focus peaking and it's ease in attaching legacy lenses. The only native lens I have is the kit 18-55 which I use very often and it's good enough for 90% of the time. So, to cut the whole story short, I have lowered my expectation but I am quite surprised with the images I am getting with my NEX 5N with kit lens.

 

[Kenneth67C]

I think the Fuji produce unnatural green or could be WB is off. I will try to make it look more natural. I am not into drastic pp but just enough to give your pict a natural feel with a bit more punch. If you increase the contrast a little bit, you should be able to enhance the existing pop. I do not think you can add in the pop by increasing the contrast though someone showed me you can blur background using CS6 and thus get more subject isolation. But I think that is excessive pp. I have also not dwell into that to see if the subject isolation = 3D pop.

Bro MWP, there are many ways to introduce pop and those that you mention are just the basic global adjustments in CS.
The question of excessive or not, can be tweaked by a simple adjustment of the opacity.
Getting pop is not just a question of the degree of sharpness, but also the degree of blur of the background/foreground.

The advantage of the Zeiss lenses IMO, is that you don't have to do as much PP or virtually none at all, just as you mention maybe adjust:
1) white balance
2) recovery of lost details in the burnt out areas
3) recovery of lost details in the blacks

 

[ManWearPants]

Bro MWP, there are many ways to introduce pop and those that you mention are just the basic global adjustments in CS.
The question of excessive or not, can be tweaked by a simple adjustment of the opacity.
Getting pop is not just a question of the degree of sharpness, but also the degree of blur of the background/foreground.

The advantage of the Zeiss lenses IMO, is that you don't have to do as much PP or virtually none at all, just as you mention maybe adjust:
1) white balance
2) recovery of lost details in the burnt out areas
3) recovery of lost details in the blacks

Bro Kenneth, there have been numerous discussion on Zeiss 3D-pop over the years. In each of these discussions, there are always 2 sides - those that see Zeiss 3D-pop as high micro-contrast that are inherent in the lens design and the others who feel that this can be manipulated using software by further blurring the background, sharpening and increasing contrast (meaning Zeiss is nothing special). Recently, I came across a magazine (I cannot remember the name) which they interviewed one of Nikon's lens designer. He says that moving forward, Nikon will design lenses which will exhibit 3D-pop quality in the resulting image (not exact wordings but along the line). We both know what we are getting out of Zeiss lenses. There will be no end to this topic about 3D-pop so I will leave it at that. My earlier comment is to encourage Bro Thoth to include post processing into his digital workflow even though he is satisfied with SOoC images, not so much as wanting to talk about 3D-pop least it starts off another debate. In any case, I agree with what you have written

 

[Panaromic]

Yes sir. 135 APO is in sight but I am very happy with the Contax N 85. Don't think I need to change it. Also the rumoured new 85 is supposedly in the same range as the 55/1.4. Don't think I want to spend S$5k on a lens.

where did u guys hear abt the new 85? It's not on the zeiss blog that i follow quite closely.

 

[ManWearPants]

Let's carry on shooting and let the photos do the talking. More flowers....I didn't know I got so many flower shots.

These are ZS25 (eq 40mm) on foveon sensor.

 

[ManWearPants]

where did u guys hear abt the new 85? It's not on the zeiss blog that i follow quite closely.

source 1: The Next Zeiss Lenses? [CR2]
watch the embedded video.

source 2: Zeiss Rumors: Photokina 2: New FF Zeiss lens line
"At the time, three lenses are under development for launch in autumn 2013. More lenses are planned. CZ does not want to reveal further information about what focal lengths will be launched in autumn 2013 and what lenses are planned for a later release. Today, the prototype of a 1.4/55mm Distagon only is known. "

To answer my own Q about AF, will not be seeing them anytime soon on Canon and Nikon. So continue to snap up those Contax N. However, the 3 Zeiss lenses for mirrorless is very interesting - 12/2.8, 32/1.8 and 50/2.8 macro. Does it comes with AF?
http://www.zeissrumors.com/2013/01/megapixel-interview-with-zeiss-at.html

 

[ManWearPants]

I have a bit of time recently so a little bit of fun here. Nothing scientific but I tried to keep them as close as possible. All taken with ZS 50@2.0 using neutral profile. All raw files converted using manufacturers' software to jpg before using LR3 to post process with matching WB and a few other parameters.

Canon 22.3MP FF sensor

Sigma 14MP 1.7x Foveon sensor

Kodak 13.7MP FF sensor

A few conclusion drawn on my own:
- watch out for the FF foveon sensor. Despite of all other shortcomings in a Sigma camera and the muted green, it captures lots of details and the red is amazing. You can almost feel the texture of the flower.
- If you don't take pictures in the dark, the Kodak sensors are wonderful - realism colours, nice tonal range, highlights and shadow details well controlled. I like the grains that comes with it. And this from a 10 year old sensor. I would get those Leica M9/ME if one can afford them. They are probably the last Kodak sensors on a camera.
- Canon sensor is a nice balance for every situation. And really, the increased in MP does nothing if the details, colour realism, tonal range are lacking. But again, watch out for the Foveon. Once the FF Foveon is out and Sigma gets the hardware right. That will be the time that Bayer sensor becomes the Kodak of today - obsolete.

 

[Anthony Lee]

I have a bit of time recently so a little bit of fun here. Nothing scientific but I tried to keep them as close as possible. All taken with ZS 50@2.0 using neutral profile. All raw files converted using manufacturers' software to jpg before using LR3 to post process with matching WB and a few other parameters.

Canon 22.3MP FF sensor

Sigma 14MP 1.7x Foveon sensor

Kodak 13.7MP FF sensor

A few conclusion drawn on my own:
- watch out for the FF foveon sensor. Despite of all other shortcomings in a Sigma camera and the muted green, it captures lots of details and the red is amazing. You can almost feel the texture of the flower.
- If you don't take pictures in the dark, the Kodak sensors are wonderful - realism colours, nice tonal range, highlights and shadow details well controlled. I like the grains that comes with it. And this from a 10 year old sensor. I would get those Leica M9/ME if one can afford them. They are probably the last Kodak sensors on a camera.
- Canon sensor is a nice balance for every situation. But again, watch out for the Foveon. Once the FF Foveon is out and Sigma gets the hardware right. That will be the time that Bayer sensor becomes the Kodak of today - obsolete.

You should try both Sony and the Fuji X-Trans sensors also.

 

[ManWearPants]

You should try both Sony and the Fuji X-Trans sensors also.

$ not enuff. Unless someone out there want to loan me A99 and X-Pro 1 for 2 months to familiarize with them.

 

[Panaromic]

source 1: The Next Zeiss Lenses? [CR2]
watch the embedded video.

source 2: Zeiss Rumors: Photokina 2: New FF Zeiss lens line
"At the time, three lenses are under development for launch in autumn 2013. More lenses are planned. CZ does not want to reveal further information about what focal lengths will be launched in autumn 2013 and what lenses are planned for a later release. Today, the prototype of a 1.4/55mm Distagon only is known. "

To answer my own Q about AF, will not be seeing them anytime soon on Canon and Nikon. So continue to snap up those Contax N. However, the 3 Zeiss lenses for mirrorless is very interesting - 12/2.8, 32/1.8 and 50/2.8 macro. Does it comes with AF?
Zeiss Rumors: Megapixel interview with Zeiss at Photokina 2012

the 3 lens for mirrorless are AF.
But i think the 12/2.8 and 32/1.8 will be coming out first

 

[Kenneth67C]

I have a bit of time recently so a little bit of fun here. Nothing scientific but I tried to keep them as close as possible. All taken with ZS 50@2.0 using neutral profile. All raw files converted using manufacturers' software to jpg before using LR3 to post process with matching WB and a few other parameters.

Canon 22.3MP FF sensor

Sigma 14MP 1.7x Foveon sensor

Kodak 13.7MP FF sensor

A few conclusion drawn on my own:
- watch out for the FF foveon sensor. Despite of all other shortcomings in a Sigma camera and the muted green, it captures lots of details and the red is amazing. You can almost feel the texture of the flower.
- If you don't take pictures in the dark, the Kodak sensors are wonderful - realism colours, nice tonal range, highlights and shadow details well controlled. I like the grains that comes with it. And this from a 10 year old sensor. I would get those Leica M9/ME if one can afford them. They are probably the last Kodak sensors on a camera.
- Canon sensor is a nice balance for every situation. And really, the increased in MP does nothing if the details, colour realism, tonal range are lacking. But again, watch out for the Foveon. Once the FF Foveon is out and Sigma gets the hardware right. That will be the time that Bayer sensor becomes the Kodak of today - obsolete.

Can't see the middle pic.

 

[ManWearPants]

Can't see the middle pic.

I have refreshed the links. It wasn't showing up on my mobile as well.

 

[ManWearPants]

You should try both Sony and the Fuji X-Trans sensors also.

You get what you asked for. Thoth posted some samples with both Sony and X-trans sensors.
http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/othe...rs-lens-mount-conversions-27.html#post8395778

 

[ricohflex]

Foveon is impressive. But every technology has pros and cons. Though taken with same lens, there may be slight differences in focus, or a light breeze may have moved the flowers in the other two shots - thus the Foveon shot seems to capture more texture.

 

[Kenneth67C]

I have a bit of time recently so a little bit of fun here. Nothing scientific but I tried to keep them as close as possible. All taken with ZS 50@2.0 using neutral profile. All raw files converted using manufacturers' software to jpg before using LR3 to post process with matching WB and a few other parameters.

Canon 22.3MP FF sensor

Sigma 14MP 1.7x Foveon sensor

Kodak 13.7MP FF sensor

A few conclusion drawn on my own:
- watch out for the FF foveon sensor. Despite of all other shortcomings in a Sigma camera and the muted green, it captures lots of details and the red is amazing. You can almost feel the texture of the flower.
- If you don't take pictures in the dark, the Kodak sensors are wonderful - realism colours, nice tonal range, highlights and shadow details well controlled. I like the grains that comes with it. And this from a 10 year old sensor. I would get those Leica M9/ME if one can afford them. They are probably the last Kodak sensors on a camera.
- Canon sensor is a nice balance for every situation. And really, the increased in MP does nothing if the details, colour realism, tonal range are lacking. But again, watch out for the Foveon. Once the FF Foveon is out and Sigma gets the hardware right. That will be the time that Bayer sensor becomes the Kodak of today - obsolete.

Thanks MWP.

I'm not too impressed by the Foveon sensor's color fidelity which IMO is not as true-to-life as the Canon or the Kodak sensor.
Its either too oversaturated, and/or the greens have become "overcooked".
I can live with either Canon or Kodak colors though.

 

[ManWearPants]

Foveon is impressive. But every technology has pros and cons. Though taken with same lens, there may be slight differences in focus, or a light breeze may have moved the flowers in the other two shots - thus the Foveon shot seems to capture more texture.

There is not much wind but could be due to
- manual focusing through stock screen so may have been slightly off
- FF Canon and Kodak sensor offer thinner DoF and more diffuse background blur while the Foveon is 1.7x cropped.
- Sigma was taken from a farther distance to achieve same FoV so background not as diffused.

Foveon is not there yet but there is great potential. This isn't even the sensor from SD1m. This is the older 4.9MP (4.9 x 3 layers) and the level of details is amazing. Anyway, this is a Zeiss thread. Just for info that you need to pair these wonderful lenses with the right camera.

 

[ManWearPants]

Thanks MWP.

I'm not too impressed by the Foveon sensor's color fidelity which IMO is not as true-to-life as the Canon or the Kodak sensor.
Its either too oversaturated, and/or the greens have become "overcooked".
I can live with either Canon or Kodak colors though.

It is hard to control the test as the cameras have different settings. All have flaws.

The Canon is quite weak. If you look at the bottom right shadow area - no details. Bottom left highlights - no details. Tonal range of leaves in the OoF area - limited. On its own, it looks ok. But side by side, the colours saturation are boosted.

The Sigma green is very weak and dull. The red is amazing and in fact very real. If you look at the foveon sensor, red is the layer on top and without AA. It looks like contrast and vibrancy is increased but I think we may have been too used to seeing Canon colors.

The Kodak exhibits the most natural colors overall but it is grainy and usable only in low iso. Too bad there is no more development on this.

Again, for info only. All my personal opinions. Take your pick. My money is on Foveon.