Any problem with NTSC cam in Singapore?

[peterlimyk]

I'm thinking of buying Canon camcorder from PriceJapan or eBay. What kind of problems I might be facing when using it in Singapore?

Thanks

 

[TsQ]

very little since all TV now are multi system.. even that akira from Giant also multi sys...heh

 

[mm63]

If you have a lot of previous PAL footage, then it may become a problem if you want to mix old PAL and new NTSC footage in a project.

 

[jaegersing]

Can be problem with lights flickering due to the clash of frame rate with power frequency. As long as you shoot at 1/50s shutter you will be fine. If you cannot control shutter speed with the cam you plan to buy, you will probably get horrible results with artificial lighting.

 

[YSLee]

Is this for fun or for serious work? I'm sure the experts will tell you more, but having fiddled with the GH1 on slightly out of synced shutter speed to frame rate ratios, the flicker isn't very pleasant.

 

[Faiz]

outdoors no problems but indoor no matter wat the shutter speed is u'l see flickering and it's bad.... real bad....

 

[jaegersing]

There was a discussion about this on another forum, and I got persuaded that using 1/50s will stop the flickering. Here's some tests that soneone did with various shutter speeds in different lighting.

http://www.vimeo.com/4972364

The reason that 1/50s works is that it covers one complete cycle of the power waveform. So each frame gets the same amount of light, even though the frame rate is not synchronised with the power frequency. If you use other shutter speeds you only get part of the waveform, and the lighting during this part will vary from frame to frame.

I can't actually test it now though, because I don't have an NTSC camera.

 

[stevei]

Hello
I am also trying to get an answer to this question. I am considering the HF S10. There are lots of differing opinions ranging from no problem with modern TV's to problem with flickering if filming in doors. It would be good to hear from someone that is filming with an NTSC camera and playing it on there PAL TV or have saved movies to DVD and play them on there DVD player....Thanks

 

[wdEvA]

hmm, I'm using a sanyo vpc-cg10 from warehouse123.

I'm very new in videography, but it shoots at 30fps, i suppose it's ntsc?

there's no problem with playing back.
but when fliming indoors, i got flickering from the lights.

hope this helps

 

[TsQ]

FLcikers comes when shutter speed is at fast speed.. say 1/250 onwards... happens to any cam..

 

[jaegersing]

FLcikers comes when shutter speed is at fast speed.. say 1/250 onwards... happens to any cam..

Maybe so, but NTSC cams in a PAL country also flicker at slower shutter speeds, unless you use 1/50s.

 

[TsQ]

Maybe so, but NTSC cams in a PAL country also flicker at slower shutter speeds, unless you use 1/50s.

u mean NTSC video files convert to PAL and it flickers?

if so, then dont convert... i really cannot think who nowadays still hv a PAL only TV..

 

[jaegersing]

u mean NTSC video files convert to PAL and it flickers?

if so, then dont convert... i really cannot think who nowadays still hv a PAL only TV..

No, I mean shooting under 50Hz lighting with an NTSC frame rate. The flickering is terrible unless you set the shutter to 1/50s. With a PAL cam you get more options of different shutter speeds without a problem.

 

[wdEvA]

jaegersing, are all home lights 50Hz?

as mentioned above, I've flickering when shooting at home with the lights on, but when i tried lighting up the place with a 650w tagotech light, the flickring is gone.

So i'm wondering if it's due to the frequency of the light or just merely cause my home lighting isn't lighting up the room enough, therefore causing flickring. (The flickring is quite slow, not those when u use a high shutter speed)

 

[jaegersing]

jaegersing, are all home lights 50Hz?

as mentioned above, I've flickering when shooting at home with the lights on, but when i tried lighting up the place with a 650w tagotech light, the flickring is gone.

So i'm wondering if it's due to the frequency of the light or just merely cause my home lighting isn't lighting up the room enough, therefore causing flickring. (The flickring is quite slow, not those when u use a high shutter speed)

All home lights are 50Hz, (unless they run from some kind of power converter circuit), but the amount of flickering depends on the type of lights. Incandescent bulbs are not too bad because the filaments do not cool down so quickly which means the light intensity is more even. On the other hand, fluorescent lights can flicker like crazy because the light intensity tracks the supply voltage. Maybe your tagotech light has a large filament inside so it doesn't cause a problem?

I suppose if you are able to control the lighting you can avoid flickering with an NTSC cam. But in practice it is very difficult to do this. Even shooting outside on the street can involve shop window displays with fluorescent lighting, and this usually looks terrible, flickering and flashing away in the background of the shot. However as I mentioned before, if you can set the shutter speed to 1/50s, the flicker should be greatly reduced, maybe even eliminated.

 

[YSLee]

What happens then is your frame rate and shutter speed are no longer in sync. I suspect either frames will be dropped or doubled up. Or some weird pulldown is going to take place.

 

[TsQ]

i been reviewing my shots (mostly indoors and dark) and i dont see flickering... i hv fluorescent lights and energy saving lights all together...

(i using a ntsc tm300 cam)

 

[redsox]

I'm using ntsc iVIS HFS10 and did not notice any flickering with different lightings at home. I also shoot my aquarium at night with fluorescent light tubes and also no flickering.

 

[jaegersing]

For those shooting with NTSC cams in Singapore and not getting any flickering under fluorescent lighting, I envy you. If you can suggest any 4D numbers please do so!

Here's a couple of test clips that show the effect at different shutter speeds. This is using a Canon 5D Mk 2 at 30fps, but any NTSC cam should show similar effects. Maybe the lucky ones have their cams default to 1/50s shutter speeds, that's why no problem?

http://www.vimeo.com/4972364
http://www.vimeo.com/4991966

 

[TsQ]

Wah.. buy 4d.. haha.. like that guess i better throw out my NTSC camcorder down the rubbish bin..

i think seldom we go faster then 1/50 when indoor and since there are fluorescent light meaning the area is rather dark.. then why would the camera hv shutter speed faster ?

i duuno, if NTSC cam is such a problem, wouldnt there be a flow of japanese tourist buying PAL cam in Singapore?

edit: Just went testing ... no flickering in all sort of lights in my house... with all sorts of lights source. BUt this is in Ai mode which most of the user will enabled anyway...

only when i hv it in manual mode and set it faster then 1/100 then I see flickering (but hv to try hard)... get worst when near 1/200 onwards..

I no idea with DSLR.. but the TM300 works great in all low light condition within my house.. maybe if u video in a place with full of lights bulbs, and the AI mode set it going faster then 1/160 then it maybe a problem...