Any good solution for me to have flashlight control and video lighting together?

[pchengws]

Dear CSers,

After 20 over years of shooting, I ended up today situations. Equipment as follow:

Nikon D7000 and D800. Lenses various to cover most shooting range. Only 1 Metz 58F2 flash.

Olympus EM1 Mark1 with most of the Pro lenses to cover most shooting range. Metz 64, Olympus 36, Nissin.

The solution required: Looking for the flash trigger to utilize all the above flashes to satisfy both Nikon and Olympus use but I am told that it is not possible if I want TTL. If without TTL I need Light meter to ensure the correct exposure. It added to the total cost.

A shop also recommended to use a video light, I cannot remember the brand but with a special cable, it can be used for the camera to trigger like a flashlight.

The issue is that both would cost me a minimum of S$1,500 or more if I need two light sources. If I need 3 light source will be more.

Today I read about the Litra Torch very good solution but not sure it supports the flashlight function and can work TTL with the cameras (both Nikon and Olympus).

Any advice from you to help me achieve what I want. I do a lot of volunteering free shooting both photo and video for the school and offices and family. It is my hobby. Cost saving is important to me.

 

[kandinsky]

Maybe check out some of the Godox products, not sure if they support m43 yet.

The firmware updated on June 28th enables the TTL-capable X series lineup to do cross-brand TTL and cross-brand HSS. Any of the brand-specific lights designed for Canon, Nikon, and Sony all (such as the V860II-N, AD360II-C, and TT685S) can now function as TTL/HSS lights regardless of the brand triggering them so long as the master signal matches up with the camera brand.

When a Godox flash of one brand detects the master signal coming from another brand, it converts the signal and denotes it in the bottom left of the radio slave screen.

https://petapixel.com/2017/07/13/godox-quietly-launched-cross-brand-ttl-hss-lights/

The video light doesn't make much sense if you're getting it for flash for stills, unless you don't mind shooting at high ISOs or dragging your shutter. The output would be a tiny tiny fraction of what you're used to with a full-sized speedlight. It's rated at 2200lumens. I read some estimates of the max output of a typical speedlight in lumens to be at least 100,000 lumens to 1 million lumens.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?170622-Output-of-a-camera-flash-in-lumens

 

[one eye jack]

Don't need to spend money...
First of all you must understand how flash exposure is calculated.It's based on subject distance to flash,flash guide number and ISO setting.You can use a flash as 2nd. or 3rd. light if it has an optical sensor like the metz 58af2 to trigger.The exposure is manual.I believe your other flashes have optical sensor so technically you can cross use them but you need to preset the slave's power output.Actually you don't need a flash meter ,try by trial and error to judge the exposure and distance.

If you really need a flash meter an entry level Sekonic L308S from Cathay photo should help, about $300.

PS you need to select the right optical triggering mode for the slave flash.

 

[pchengws]

Thank you, Kandinsky & one eye jack. I read many of your other advice. I am so used to TTL and now seems like I need to go back to basic and start re-learn flashlight again.

I must first learn each individual flashlights I have and find out how it works with each Nikon and Olympus camera. I need to do it but no good procedure and plan.

Godox seems it works well with different cameras but not sure it works with my existing flashlights. I need to go down to the distributor in Singapore to find out more. TK Photo or Cathey Photo?

 

[Bamboopictures]

If you shoot mostly in controlled, art directed situations, continuous lighting is feasible (up to 1/200s.) WYSIWYG has it's advantages when you're shaping light. No chimping needed. Came TV Boltzens and Aputure Lightstorms have very powerful fresnels for that purpose.

 

[pchengws]

Hi Bamboopictures.

Most of my works are for the events or wedding dinners and now adding grandchild (do not need flash yet). Hence it is important to me have proper flashlights because school events are in Auditorium performance. Mostly with certain distance.

 

[one eye jack]

Thank you, Kandinsky & one eye jack. I read many of your other advice. I am so used to TTL and now seems like I need to go back to basic and start re-learn flashlight again.

I must first learn each individual flashlights I have and find out how it works with each Nikon and Olympus camera. I need to do it but no good procedure and plan.

Godox seems it works well with different cameras but not sure it works with my existing flashlights. I need to go down to the distributor in Singapore to find out more. TK Photo or Cathey Photo?

Don't believe Godox marketing, yes their TTL flash for nikon and canon work but not full compatibility.
Even Godox tell people to use only Godox flash and Godox triggers,this Godox say gaurantee to work as designed. An online search will reveal users complaints but they understand that this is the reality.

 

[pchengws]

This is why I need to seek help here. Different Brand with different flashes seems there is no TTL solution.

Litra Torch has strobing and I got the reply from them that it is not a replacement for flash. So I am back to square one need to test out all different brand see whether it can get triggered by one flash as Master, then work with the light meter to overcome my need. To change flashlight will end up very expensive for me. I still need two sets of the flashlight.

My mind is to have minimum 2 flashes or maybe three to be ideal.
Really no other solution?

 

[one eye jack]

This is why I need to seek help here. Different Brand with different flashes seems there is no TTL solution.

Litra Torch has strobing and I got the reply from them that it is not a replacement for flash. So I am back to square one need to test out all different brand see whether it can get triggered by one flash as Master, then work with the light meter to overcome my need. To change flashlight will end up very expensive for me. I still need two sets of the flashlight.

My mind is to have minimum 2 flashes or maybe three to be ideal.
Really no other solution?

Sorry, TTL trigger can only use for dedicated flash for particular camera only.However as I said above you can trigger a slave falsh if it has an optical sensor like metz 58af2 but at short distance. I believe some of your other speedlites have optical sensor?

There are manual triggers and transmitters but exposure has to be trial and error or use flash meter
as I said above.For example if you use Yongnuo yn560 mk4 or better still yn660 (powerful zoom to 200mm) both have builtin radio reciever and optical sensor and use yn560tx as master transmitter.This system allows adjusting power levels from the 560tx without going to individual speedlite/flash.Local prices about $100 each for flash and $60 for 560tx.

Alternatively to use your existing speedlites/flashes there is yongnuo RF605II nikon/canon version but you can use it on olympus as only center pin is used for manual.You may need to tape off some pins to work but for M43 maybe no need.

Edit: I know because I have tested 560TX and RF605IIc on M43 hotshoe but 560tx can't adjust power level of RF605 II but only on yn560 mk4 and yn660 so need to set on RF605 II individually.

There are 2 pieces in a set so one is set as master and the other as slave. If you buy 2 sets technically you have 1 master and 3 slaves. Btw RF605II is compatible to 560tx so it will trigger them as well.

Again there may be TTL compatible trigger for olympus since you have more than one flash. Check out Cactus V6 mk2 or Photix Odin.

 

[kandinsky]

Agree with one eye jack's proposed solution. The low-budget solution is to learn to shoot manual/'dumb' flash. I have a set of 3 YN560IV + YN560TX transmitter. This works on my Sony, Panasonic, Nikon bodies. Very doable once you get the hang of it, in indoor controlled environments...

If TTL is a must, the only logical solution here is to consolidate into one system. You sound like you have a lot of lenses for either system, so all you really need is to buy an additional body, then add flashes to that, depending on whether you want to stick with N or O. If you sell the other system off to offset, you should have more than enough. You should get the sense by now that each brand uses their proprietary TTL flash protocol. What you're asking for is like insisting that your N and O bodies should have interchangeable batteries ;p That would be perfect, but unless the manufacturers agree to use a universal standard, it is what it is.

On another note... Hobbies are for personal enjoyment, if certain aspects of a hobby are causing me to do things I don't enjoy (e.g. spending more money than I want), I might cut back on the volunteering because it becomes more like a job than personal enjoyment. Of course, unless spending the money, solving these problems, are also part of the enjoyment, then by all means, indulge away

 

[pchengws]

Thank you, Kandinsky and One eye jack. It blames me pure laziness. I am aware to use flash in manual mode. When I first used Zeiss 12mm film camera it was all manual, but I did not have a flash. Since I changed to Nikon film onward, I got lazy and used the auto and TTL. I have to force myself go back to manual setting at least with the flashlight.
I never intend to go into business in photography, maybe that caused me never learn good enough skill just good enough result to make colleagues, friends, and family happy.
I am retired and I have to be careful with the money I spend, but my home Finance Minister agreed for me to spend up to S$1,500 on lighting. Therefore, I am trying to get the best solution out of it including for video taking. I have a small LED light but not enough for video solution too. I learned from SUSS video course including lighting and worked part-time for a studio knowing what lighting is, but the weight is not what I want to carry it around. I changed from Nikon to Olympus also because of the weight.
I promised myself to test it out and I will report back here for the result and seek more advises within a week.

 

[kandinsky]

I wouldn't say TTL is necessarily lazy, sometimes it really is the best tool for the job, as long as one can stomach the cost when you need a few lights ;p I like the peace of mind it offers for fast-paced environments, allows you to focus on other things like composition and guest/subject interaction, esp when you have 50-60 banquet tables to clear in a short time :sweat: Your home FM sounds generous, you married well :thumbsup:

 

[pchengws]

Hi All,

I did a quick test. First I must say I am not familiar with the remote flash how it the best way to set up. I just know all must be in the same channel and same frequency. I tried Nikon set with only Metz 58F2 using the rest of the sets like Metz 64 and Nissin and non works. (I forgot to use the camera D800 top flash to test.)

I tried Olympus also with Olympus 36 to drive the Metz 64 and Nissin it did not work. However, I used the small Flash came with the Camera it can trigger both Olympus 36 and Metz 64. Have not try with Nissin yet. Trigger is one thing how to get the right exposure is another. I stopped at this stage to figure out. Flashes lighted but the photo is way under exposed.

The flash sensors are facing me not to the object that could be one of the error.:bsmilie:

 

[one eye jack]

Hi All,

I did a quick test. First I must say I am not familiar with the remote flash how it the best way to set up. I just know all must be in the same channel and same frequency. I tried Nikon set with only Metz 58F2 using the rest of the sets like Metz 64 and Nissin and non works. (I forgot to use the camera D800 top flash to test.)

I tried Olympus also with Olympus 36 to drive the Metz 64 and Nissin it did not work. However, I used the small Flash came with the Camera it can trigger both Olympus 36 and Metz 64. Have not try with Nissin yet. Trigger is one thing how to get the right exposure is another. I stopped at this stage to figure out. Flashes lighted but the photo is way under exposed.

The flash sensors are facing me not to the object that could be one of the error.:bsmilie:

If you are using optical sensor try setting flash to manual mode and optical sensor mode.Also set to ignore preflash.The sensor may not need to face you as indoors the sensor is sensitive enough to detect light bounced from wall or sensor can face you and flash head turned towards subject.

For triggers, manual or TTL type the one on camera must be set as "transmitter" and the off camera flash as "reciever".

Edit: You can do a series of exposure tests for a certain ISO setting 100 or 200.Say subject at 10feet/3 meters and use F22 - F2.Then scale up or down accordingly.
Don't forget to set flash to full power or 1:1

FSD (flash to subject distance) X Aperture = GN (guide number)

GN divide by Aperture = FSD

GN divide by FSD = Aperture.

 

[pchengws]

Hi All,
EM1 Mark 1 came with a small flash, it is able to mount on the camera top and act as the commander. I also set the camera to use the Remote Flash feature ON. Set the FL 36R to remote slave it can be trigger off by the commander. Just that it is very dark well underexposed. That is why I wrote to Olympus and got a very good reply.
I was told to read the manual... To make thing short after setting to Remote On, I need to press the set button one more time to trigger the manual shows A mode setting screen. There are 4 settings allowed. TTL, Auto, by Channel and to turn off. That means Olympus EM1 can control the remote flashes within the camera?
With this finding, I set my Metz 64 AF1 to the remote slave using Channel 1 Group 1, it works too.
Now the exposure is correct. I am not sure it is perfect but to me, it is correctly exposed. I need further tune the setting to find out the perfect setting.

I also need to test with the Metz 58F2 and others whether it works too. This is what I can report so far. If anyone can guide me to test further to get the perfect setting let me know. Thank you.

Next is to find out whether Nikon D800 has the same feacture. If it does I may have solve my problem and save some money.

 

[pchengws]

Hi,

I also found this material can explain better than me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqctbrvD0_c

 

[kandinsky]

Hi All,
EM1 Mark 1 came with a small flash, it is able to mount on the camera top and act as the commander. I also set the camera to use the Remote Flash feature ON. Set the FL 36R to remote slave it can be trigger off by the commander. Just that it is very dark well underexposed. That is why I wrote to Olympus and got a very good reply.
I was told to read the manual... To make thing short after setting to Remote On, I need to press the set button one more time to trigger the manual shows A mode setting screen. There are 4 settings allowed. TTL, Auto, by Channel and to turn off. That means Olympus EM1 can control the remote flashes within the camera?
With this finding, I set my Metz 64 AF1 to the remote slave using Channel 1 Group 1, it works too.
Now the exposure is correct. I am not sure it is perfect but to me, it is correctly exposed. I need further tune the setting to find out the perfect setting.

I also need to test with the Metz 58F2 and others whether it works too. This is what I can report so far. If anyone can guide me to test further to get the perfect setting let me know. Thank you.

Next is to find out whether Nikon D800 has the same feacture. If it does I may have solve my problem and save some money.

If your Metz 58 is the Nikon version, it won't support wireless TTL with your Olympus, that's quite established. You can test it if you are doubtful. Again, for TTL, your EM1 speaks 'm43 flash language', your Nikon speaks 'Nikon flash language'. The reason Metz sells the same flash in different versions, is because each system speaks their own TTL language.

So, not sure what you're pointing at, you'll still need two different systems. I have a Metz 58 also (m43 model), that supports wireless TTL with my GH4.

 

[pchengws]

Hi Kandinsky,

You are correct. I meant I can use EM1 Remote flash control commander built in the camera to control Nissin for Olympus, Olympus, Metz for Olympus. I have solved Olympus remote control flash with TTL because I have one each total three flashes for Olympus.

I found the same Command panel for Nikon 800. I have one Metz 58F2. So If I buy a third parties Nikon flash(es) I will achieve the same result?
If it is correct I would rather buy a new flash for Nikon system than invest a remote flash commander set that suits Olympus and Nikon because it will end up more costly in my case than just go for one new Nikon flash.

I am not aware of the camera built-in Flash commander sorry for the stir up.

 

[one eye jack]

Hi Kandinsky,

You are correct. I meant I can use EM1 Remote flash control commander built in the camera to control Nissin for Olympus, Olympus, Metz for Olympus. I have solved Olympus remote control flash with TTL because I have one each total three flashes for Olympus.

I found the same Command panel for Nikon 800. I have one Metz 58F2. So If I buy a third parties Nikon flash(es) I will achieve the same result?
If it is correct I would rather buy a new flash for Nikon system than invest a remote flash commander set that suits Olympus and Nikon because it will end up more costly in my case than just go for one new Nikon flash.

I am not aware of the camera built-in Flash commander sorry for the stir up.

If you buy another nikon flash it's guaranteed for sure but you don't want to pay the price.
A 3rd. party ttl flash may or may not work 100% but logically if they are able to reverse engineer
the original flash it should work only that it takes testing to confirm. Most people who buy 3rd. party ttl flash use it on-camera so user experience relating to off camera triggering is lacking
and anyway if a user starts to play with off camera triggering he would already find that nikon's CLS
flash system may not perform in some situations.The reason is nikon uses infrared light for signaling just like a tv remote, it's by line of sight(you point in the vincinity of the reciever). It performs flawlessly indoors and at close distances although this guy said he can trigger at 50 meters.

https://photo.stackexchange.com/questions/27420/nikon-d800-wireless-i-ttl-range

That said, nikon is slow to adopt 3rd. party technology using 2.4Ghz. radio system.For that nikon has
introduced it's SB5000 with built-in 2.4ghz. radio but logically you need to by another remote commander that has a 2.4ghz. radio which is another cost. Standard radio triggers can trigger at 100M and you don't have to be in the same room.It always triggers unlike line of sight infrared systems.

Also do know you can use nikon CLS system with only the pop-up flash activated.For experienced flash shooters they don't want an on camera flash light hence will use a remote flash trigger. Yes buying flash triggers and recievers cost money but you have to weigh the pros and cons.Ultimately the results matter..how your photos look.So far the verdict is no 3rd. party company has manage to design a radio flash system that work flawlessly on a particular brand of camera as what photographers would like at a cheap price so it's trial and error to find the right equipment.

 

[pchengws]

Hi, one eye jack and all,

Thank you for your material, and I believe in getting working quality solution. My initial intention was to have a standard flash radio trigger system to work with both Nikon and Olympus. Obviously, the answer is NO.
I moved to Olympus is also due to the weight. Looks like I have to work more on built-in Olympus flash commander and see how accurate it can provide. So far only tested at home, cannot tell how accurate it is.

Alternatively, can I rent a third party radio trigger system for flash? I used it only at the Studio I help out and those are proper lighting system. I am using my Nikon 7000 and D800 lesser now merely because of the weight.
If I have to buy a set for Nikon, please advise which brand is most flexible and easy to configure and carry around (hopefully no battery weight).