Anti-Exploitation

[yqt]

Well, here's to a good cause and to end the vicious cycle.

1. eikin (Y.Q. Goh)
2. DCnA (Andrew Ting)
3. Static (LKY)
4. Wisp (T.Y Tan)
5. Smurfman (LSH)
6. Redsun (RT)
7. zhangyb (ZYB)
8. Paul_Yeo (Paul Yeo)
9. Francis247 (Francis Goh)
10. Max 2.8 (Max Yeo)
11. knoxknocks (Seah Y H)
12. dreamerz(Sherman Tan)
13. deadpoet (AP)
14. redstone (CHK)
15. mattlock (jing)
16. scud (YC)
17. cheesecake (wanghonghong)
18. drakon09 (darren goh)
19. ortega (Alex Ortega)
20. drumma (liji)
21. sjourn (CPS)
22. Maddyks (KS)
23. josho (Josh Ong)
24. initialE24 (win)
25. rayz (raymond tan)
26. zaren (AJH)
27. raptor84 (Nicholas Lee)
28. sORe-EyEz (K.M. Ang)
29. hobbit6003 (K Poh)
30. Hexlord (TK)
31. wrkshy (Regina De Rozario)
32. clown (James Tan)
33. night86mare (CWK)
34. Stratix (Gary)
35. feimao07 (Jason Mah)
36. jsbn (JK)
37. blazer_workz (James Fong)
38. yqt (W.T. HO)

 

[Danz Chong]

My strongly support against exploitation in this CS forum!

 

[Danz Chong]

Well, here's to a good cause and to end the vicious cycle.

1. eikin (Y.Q. Goh)
2. DCnA (Andrew Ting)
3. Static (LKY)
4. Wisp (T.Y Tan)
5. Smurfman (LSH)
6. Redsun (RT)
7. zhangyb (ZYB)
8. Paul_Yeo (Paul Yeo)
9. Francis247 (Francis Goh)
10. Max 2.8 (Max Yeo)
11. knoxknocks (Seah Y H)
12. dreamerz(Sherman Tan)
13. deadpoet (AP)
14. redstone (CHK)
15. mattlock (jing)
16. scud (YC)
17. cheesecake (wanghonghong)
18. drakon09 (darren goh)
19. ortega (Alex Ortega)
20. drumma (liji)
21. sjourn (CPS)
22. Maddyks (KS)
23. josho (Josh Ong)
24. initialE24 (win)
25. rayz (raymond tan)
26. zaren (AJH)
27. raptor84 (Nicholas Lee)
28. sORe-EyEz (K.M. Ang)
29. hobbit6003 (K Poh)
30. Hexlord (TK)
31. wrkshy (Regina De Rozario)
32. clown (James Tan)
33. night86mare (CWK)
34. Stratix (Gary)
35. feimao07 (Jason Mah)
36. jsbn (JK)
37. blazer_workz (James Fong)
38. yqt (W.T. HO)

39. danz chong (Danny Chong)

 

[blazer_workz]

Personally, I do not believe in giving free photography services to a commercial company for whatever cause. If it is for charity, then the terms and conditions should be clearly defined and must benefit the charity & the photographer; whether directly or indirectly. Also, the name of the charity organization and their intentions are make known to all and be transparent. Most importantly, the photographer should be allowed to retain the copyright of his work even though his work may/may not be published.

Having said all these, budding photographers having invested time and resources is trying hard to enter the world of professional photography. They need real experience and good portfolio to even think to step into this trade. More to that, being new to this trade, they may have very little or no information in which professional photographer offer internship or attachment. With no one to turn to, they resort to offer ‘free services’ or 'work for free' in order to get some experience; hopefully some commercial companies appreciates their works and land them a job or a career.

What I see is a vicious cycle;
- budding photographer needs experience
- commercial entities need to lower cost
- very little existing professional photographers offers internship
- budding photographers offer free services in order to get exposure and experience
- commercial entity see this low cost opportunity, engages these low cost service, may or may not pays for the photographic works
- budding photographers don’t see returns. Tries harder to get into the trade by offering more freebies
- commercial entities sees more and more ‘cheap opportunity’, thus they eventually controls the prices
- when years goes by, existing pro photographers retires one by one due to old age
- young photographers finds it hard to raise prices because they offered free or cheap services in their initial years
- tries harder and offer even more freebies to get experience
- some will give up, some ended up ‘dead’ while trying, some may succeed but find it hard to maintain prices

May I offer my suggestion.
- Existing professional photographer publish their intention to take in interns or helpers in CS. This is different from ‘free service’ as the main purpose of the internship is for knowledge transfer and eventually benefit the photographic community
- Terms and conditions are clearly defined. Budding photographer may keep a copy of those works done during internship, by its use is only for personal references.
- Doing these will remove the opportunity for budding photographers to offer ‘free or cheap’ services to commercial entities that may eventually spoilt market. Market price breakdown will affect current pro photographers; sooner or later.
- Budding photographers joins in there internship to gain experience, thereby creates a self learning community to boost the standards of skills.
- Hopefully, this would be seen by others as a profession, and people pay the necessary to get their photographic works done.

This will only work if both the teacher and learner have a clear conscious of their role during the internship, and hopefully reduce or stop those freeloaders.

My stand - I support anti-exploitation

My english not powderful..but just like to share my tots..

Today Company XYZ come look for free photogs..Amateur A offer for free..gets to build his portfolio..Amateur A becomes Pro A..starts to charge for his service..so Company XYZ will start to hunt for free photogs again..because Amateur A becomes Pro A and is starting to charge..so Amateur B comes along..the cycle never stop..who is the person complaining..Pro A definitely..

I'm not saying we cannot shoot for free..but whether we are shooting free for a good cause..like volunteer to shoot New year/X'mas events at old folks home..and the prints goes out to the elderly and old folks home only..

Do not be misleaded by Charity events or Prestigious events, who cares..as long your prints are published/circulated (magazines/newsletter/articles) for sales or the copyright taken away from you but given credits..this kind of exploitation is intolerable..

If u r really trying to build portfolio..can just tryout the free events available almost every weekends..if u couldn't even shoot well at free events, what makes u think u can get good portfolio by offering free service?

 

[zaxh81]

Well, here's to a good cause and to end the vicious cycle.

1. eikin (Y.Q. Goh)
2. DCnA (Andrew Ting)
3. Static (LKY)
4. Wisp (T.Y Tan)
5. Smurfman (LSH)
6. Redsun (RT)
7. zhangyb (ZYB)
8. Paul_Yeo (Paul Yeo)
9. Francis247 (Francis Goh)
10. Max 2.8 (Max Yeo)
11. knoxknocks (Seah Y H)
12. dreamerz(Sherman Tan)
13. deadpoet (AP)
14. redstone (CHK)
15. mattlock (jing)
16. scud (YC)
17. cheesecake (wanghonghong)
18. drakon09 (darren goh)
19. ortega (Alex Ortega)
20. drumma (liji)
21. sjourn (CPS)
22. Maddyks (KS)
23. josho (Josh Ong)
24. initialE24 (win)
25. rayz (raymond tan)
26. zaren (AJH)
27. raptor84 (Nicholas Lee)
28. sORe-EyEz (K.M. Ang)
29. hobbit6003 (K Poh)
30. Hexlord (TK)
31. wrkshy (Regina De Rozario)
32. clown (James Tan)
33. night86mare (CWK)
34. Stratix (Gary)
35. feimao07 (Jason Mah)
36. jsbn (JK)
37. blazer_workz (James Fong)
38. yqt (W.T. HO)
39. danz chong (Danny Chong)
40. zaxh81 (Louis Leow)

 

[bowwow]

so, what will this list do? Is it gonna stop the exploitation? there can be no results without enforcement.

that said....

1. eikin (Y.Q. Goh)
2. DCnA (Andrew Ting)
3. Static (LKY)
4. Wisp (T.Y Tan)
5. Smurfman (LSH)
6. Redsun (RT)
7. zhangyb (ZYB)
8. Paul_Yeo (Paul Yeo)
9. Francis247 (Francis Goh)
10. Max 2.8 (Max Yeo)
11. knoxknocks (Seah Y H)
12. dreamerz(Sherman Tan)
13. deadpoet (AP)
14. redstone (CHK)
15. mattlock (jing)
16. scud (YC)
17. cheesecake (wanghonghong)
18. drakon09 (darren goh)
19. ortega (Alex Ortega)
20. drumma (liji)
21. sjourn (CPS)
22. Maddyks (KS)
23. josho (Josh Ong)
24. initialE24 (win)
25. rayz (raymond tan)
26. zaren (AJH)
27. raptor84 (Nicholas Lee)
28. sORe-EyEz (K.M. Ang)
29. hobbit6003 (K Poh)
30. Hexlord (TK)
31. wrkshy (Regina De Rozario)
32. clown (James Tan)
33. night86mare (CWK)
34. Stratix (Gary)
35. feimao07 (Jason Mah)
36. jsbn (JK)
37. blazer_workz (James Fong)
38. yqt (W.T. HO)
39. danz chong (Danny Chong)
40. zaxh81 (Louis Leow)
41. bowwow (dez)

 

[leekch]

My english not powderful..but just like to share my tots..

Today Company XYZ come look for free photogs..Amateur A offer for free..gets to build his portfolio..Amateur A becomes Pro A..starts to charge for his service..so Company XYZ will start to hunt for free photogs again..because Amateur A becomes Pro A and is starting to charge..so Amateur B comes along..the cycle never stop..who is the person complaining..Pro A definitely..

I'm not saying we cannot shoot for free..but whether we are shooting free for a good cause..like volunteer to shoot New year/X'mas events at old folks home..and the prints goes out to the elderly and old folks home only..

Do not be misleaded by Charity events or Prestigious events, who cares..as long your prints are published/circulated (magazines/newsletter/articles) for sales or the copyright taken away from you but given credits..this kind of exploitation is intolerable..

If u r really trying to build portfolio..can just tryout the free events available almost every weekends..if u couldn't even shoot well at free events, what makes u think u can get good portfolio by offering free service?

I agree to 'blazer_workz'. If I am called upon to shoot for a real charity for a good cause, able to sell my works and the proceedings donate to old folks home for example; yes, I will be honor to do it for free.

You can add my name to the list;

nickname: leekch
Real name: Thomas Lee

 

[xray]

1. eikin (Y.Q. Goh)
2. DCnA (Andrew Ting)
3. Static (LKY)
4. Wisp (T.Y Tan)
5. Smurfman (LSH)
6. Redsun (RT)
7. zhangyb (ZYB)
8. Paul_Yeo (Paul Yeo)
9. Francis247 (Francis Goh)
10. Max 2.8 (Max Yeo)
11. knoxknocks (Seah Y H)
12. dreamerz(Sherman Tan)
13. deadpoet (AP)
14. redstone (CHK)
15. mattlock (jing)
16. scud (YC)
17. cheesecake (wanghonghong)
18. drakon09 (darren goh)
19. ortega (Alex Ortega)
20. drumma (liji)
21. sjourn (CPS)
22. Maddyks (KS)
23. josho (Josh Ong)
24. initialE24 (win)
25. rayz (raymond tan)
26. zaren (AJH)
27. raptor84 (Nicholas Lee)
28. sORe-EyEz (K.M. Ang)
29. hobbit6003 (K Poh)
30. Hexlord (TK)
31. wrkshy (Regina De Rozario)
32. clown (James Tan)
33. night86mare (CWK)
34. Stratix (Gary)
35. feimao07 (Jason Mah)
36. jsbn (JK)
37. blazer_workz (James Fong)
38. yqt (W.T. HO)
39. danz chong (Danny Chong)
40. zaxh81 (Louis Leow)
41. bowwow (dez)
42. xray (XJ Lee)

 

[leekch]

1. eikin (Y.Q. Goh)
2. DCnA (Andrew Ting)
3. Static (LKY)
4. Wisp (T.Y Tan)
5. Smurfman (LSH)
6. Redsun (RT)
7. zhangyb (ZYB)
8. Paul_Yeo (Paul Yeo)
9. Francis247 (Francis Goh)
10. Max 2.8 (Max Yeo)
11. knoxknocks (Seah Y H)
12. dreamerz(Sherman Tan)
13. deadpoet (AP)
14. redstone (CHK)
15. mattlock (jing)
16. scud (YC)
17. cheesecake (wanghonghong)
18. drakon09 (darren goh)
19. ortega (Alex Ortega)
20. drumma (liji)
21. sjourn (CPS)
22. Maddyks (KS)
23. josho (Josh Ong)
24. initialE24 (win)
25. rayz (raymond tan)
26. zaren (AJH)
27. raptor84 (Nicholas Lee)
28. sORe-EyEz (K.M. Ang)
29. hobbit6003 (K Poh)
30. Hexlord (TK)
31. wrkshy (Regina De Rozario)
32. clown (James Tan)
33. night86mare (CWK)
34. Stratix (Gary)
35. feimao07 (Jason Mah)
36. jsbn (JK)
37. blazer_workz (James Fong)
38. yqt (W.T. HO)
39. danz chong (Danny Chong)
40. zaxh81 (Louis Leow)
41. bowwow (dez
42. xray (XJ Lee)
43.glensky (genald tungol)
44. leekch (Thomas Lee)

Added

 

[glensky]

1. eikin (Y.Q. Goh)
2. DCnA (Andrew Ting)
3. Static (LKY)
4. Wisp (T.Y Tan)
5. Smurfman (LSH)
6. Redsun (RT)
7. zhangyb (ZYB)
8. Paul_Yeo (Paul Yeo)
9. Francis247 (Francis Goh)
10. Max 2.8 (Max Yeo)
11. knoxknocks (Seah Y H)
12. dreamerz(Sherman Tan)
13. deadpoet (AP)
14. redstone (CHK)
15. mattlock (jing)
16. scud (YC)
17. cheesecake (wanghonghong)
18. drakon09 (darren goh)
19. ortega (Alex Ortega)
20. drumma (liji)
21. sjourn (CPS)
22. Maddyks (KS)
23. josho (Josh Ong)
24. initialE24 (win)
25. rayz (raymond tan)
26. zaren (AJH)
27. raptor84 (Nicholas Lee)
28. sORe-EyEz (K.M. Ang)
29. hobbit6003 (K Poh)
30. Hexlord (TK)
31. wrkshy (Regina De Rozario)
32. clown (James Tan)
33. night86mare (CWK)
34. Stratix (Gary)
35. feimao07 (Jason Mah)
36. jsbn (JK)
37. blazer_workz (James Fong)
38. yqt (W.T. HO)
39. danz chong (Danny Chong)
40. zaxh81 (Louis Leow)
41. bowwow (dez
42. xray (XJ Lee)
43.glensky (genald tungol)

 

[leekch]

1. eikin (Y.Q. Goh)
2. DCnA (Andrew Ting)
3. Static (LKY)
4. Wisp (T.Y Tan)
5. Smurfman (LSH)
6. Redsun (RT)
7. zhangyb (ZYB)
8. Paul_Yeo (Paul Yeo)
9. Francis247 (Francis Goh)
10. Max 2.8 (Max Yeo)
11. knoxknocks (Seah Y H)
12. dreamerz(Sherman Tan)
13. deadpoet (AP)
14. redstone (CHK)
15. mattlock (jing)
16. scud (YC)
17. cheesecake (wanghonghong)
18. drakon09 (darren goh)
19. ortega (Alex Ortega)
20. drumma (liji)
21. sjourn (CPS)
22. Maddyks (KS)
23. josho (Josh Ong)
24. initialE24 (win)
25. rayz (raymond tan)
26. zaren (AJH)
27. raptor84 (Nicholas Lee)
28. sORe-EyEz (K.M. Ang)
29. hobbit6003 (K Poh)
30. Hexlord (TK)
31. wrkshy (Regina De Rozario)
32. clown (James Tan)
33. night86mare (CWK)
34. Stratix (Gary)
35. feimao07 (Jason Mah)
36. jsbn (JK)
37. blazer_workz (James Fong)
38. yqt (W.T. HO)
39. danz chong (Danny Chong)
40. zaxh81 (Louis Leow)
41. bowwow (dez
42. xray (XJ Lee)
43.glensky (genald tungol)
44. leekch (Thomas Lee)

 

[AQVA]

1. eikin (Y.Q. Goh)
2. DCnA (Andrew Ting)
3. Static (LKY)
4. Wisp (T.Y Tan)
5. Smurfman (LSH)
6. Redsun (RT)
7. zhangyb (ZYB)
8. Paul_Yeo (Paul Yeo)
9. Francis247 (Francis Goh)
10. Max 2.8 (Max Yeo)
11. knoxknocks (Seah Y H)
12. dreamerz(Sherman Tan)
13. deadpoet (AP)
14. redstone (CHK)
15. mattlock (jing)
16. scud (YC)
17. cheesecake (wanghonghong)
18. drakon09 (darren goh)
19. ortega (Alex Ortega)
20. drumma (liji)
21. sjourn (CPS)
22. Maddyks (KS)
23. josho (Josh Ong)
24. initialE24 (win)
25. rayz (raymond tan)
26. zaren (AJH)
27. raptor84 (Nicholas Lee)
28. sORe-EyEz (K.M. Ang)
29. hobbit6003 (K Poh)
30. Hexlord (TK)
31. wrkshy (Regina De Rozario)
32. clown (James Tan)
33. night86mare (CWK)
34. Stratix (Gary)
35. feimao07 (Jason Mah)
36. jsbn (JK)
37. blazer_workz (James Fong)
38. yqt (W.T. HO)
39. danz chong (Danny Chong)
40. zaxh81 (Louis Leow)
41. bowwow (dez
42. xray (XJ Lee)
43.glensky (genald tungol)
44. leekch (Thomas Lee)
45. AQVA (Kelvin Fang)

 

[zhangyb]

so, what will this list do? Is it gonna stop the exploitation? there can be no results without enforcement.

The idea is to incalcate a negative sentiment and treatment of exploiters who take advantage of conditions/situations/people. Its a good start.

 

[yqt]

so, what will this list do? Is it gonna stop the exploitation? there can be no results without enforcement.

I don't know about the rest who have put their names here but for me, when I put my name here, to me it means that I've given a commitment here that I'm against the exploitation of photographers from CS. It's not much but it's a start.

 

[sh_37]

1. eikin (Y.Q. Goh)
2. DCnA (Andrew Ting)
3. Static (LKY)
4. Wisp (T.Y Tan)
5. Smurfman (LSH)
6. Redsun (RT)
7. zhangyb (ZYB)
8. Paul_Yeo (Paul Yeo)
9. Francis247 (Francis Goh)
10. Max 2.8 (Max Yeo)
11. knoxknocks (Seah Y H)
12. dreamerz(Sherman Tan)
13. deadpoet (AP)
14. redstone (CHK)
15. mattlock (jing)
16. scud (YC)
17. cheesecake (wanghonghong)
18. drakon09 (darren goh)
19. ortega (Alex Ortega)
20. drumma (liji)
21. sjourn (CPS)
22. Maddyks (KS)
23. josho (Josh Ong)
24. initialE24 (win)
25. rayz (raymond tan)
26. zaren (AJH)
27. raptor84 (Nicholas Lee)
28. sORe-EyEz (K.M. Ang)
29. hobbit6003 (K Poh)
30. Hexlord (TK)
31. wrkshy (Regina De Rozario)
32. clown (James Tan)
33. night86mare (CWK)
34. Stratix (Gary)
35. feimao07 (Jason Mah)
36. jsbn (JK)
37. blazer_workz (James Fong)
38. yqt (W.T. HO)
39. danz chong (Danny Chong)
40. zaxh81 (Louis Leow)
41. bowwow (dez
42. xray (XJ Lee)
43.glensky (genald tungol)
44. leekch (Thomas Lee)
45. AQVA (Kelvin Fang)
46. sh_37(Yong.S.H)

Boo to cheap-skate employers! We want a minimum wage floor!!

 

[fotoudavid]

Here, in CS, alot must depends on Mods.

From their stands, the mods may feel it will be a end for ppl who are willing to sacrifice and do it free or low cost, if no more such opportunities. Most ppl who took it will be newbies i believe, so to mods it is good, the newbies learn.

To most who are experience, we hate it, as coys or whoever need it will continue to take advantage of it. In the long run, this will of cos upset the bussiness.

To newbies, by taking up this so call job, will help u not alot, but will cost more to u in the future.

To mods, unless u guys dun feel a pince at all to such low acts, dun mind local photography never improve, locals coys dun regards photography as a skill, a bussiness, a art, then by all means dun take action.

 

[Del_CtrlnoAlt]

Here, in CS, alot must depends on Mods.

From their stands, the mods may feel it will be a end for ppl who are willing to sacrifice and do it free or low cost, if no more such opportunities. Most ppl who took it will be newbies i believe, so to mods it is good, the newbies learn.

To most who are experience, we hate it, as coys or whoever need it will continue to take advantage of it. In the long run, this will of cos upset the bussiness.

To newbies, by taking up this so call job, will help u not alot, but will cost more to u in the future.

To mods, unless u guys dun feel a pince at all to such low acts, dun mind local photography never improve, locals coys dun regards photography as a skill, a bussiness, a art, then by all means dun take action.

eh, dun liddat say lah...

sometimes hor, wat i think is, mods are neutral... as long as those rippers dun step on them, they do nothing wrong, best to be at peace...

but if like now, we trying to ask for an act... suppose say we dun have your common consensus, we go delete all those rippers threads, then they go make noise... u think u will shoot them back?

so, we are trying to get more votes from you guys. if its a go ahead from majority, i think we can get admins and mods to agree and we will do the necessary.

*p.s. these are my personal views, not of the admins, mods, nor other superusers.

 

[yqt]

Many CSers here don't realise that event shoot is only a very small part of a photographer's portfolio, if it can be considered a part of a photographer's portfolio at all and to shoot an event without the expercence and someone to guild them along on that day will ruin their name as a photographer. Screw up a shoot and next time even if you pay the org.er, they will not want to use you.

Not sure if this is workable, but if we can all form a watch group, anyone of us who see any posting asking for cheap/free photographer can inform the TS/poster about the market practise and at the same time inform the rest in that thread about what to expect from the shoot ( demanding client even if it's for free as they still want results like from a paid photographer ), what is the possible down side ( once you're known as a free/cheap photographer no one will want to pay you more than your last job ) especially if you have gone down this route before, and what is the market practise. But please, we need to educate and not start a war of words.

 

[Static]

thinking photographer should be glad to be exploited !

Btw,

17. cheesecake (wanghonghong)

Zhun bo !?

 

[dark_fusion]

:thumbsup:

1. eikin (Y.Q. Goh)
2. DCnA (Andrew Ting)
3. Static (LKY)
4. Wisp (T.Y Tan)
5. Smurfman (LSH)
6. Redsun (RT)
7. zhangyb (ZYB)
8. Paul_Yeo (Paul Yeo)
9. Francis247 (Francis Goh)
10. Max 2.8 (Max Yeo)
11. knoxknocks (Seah Y H)
12. dreamerz(Sherman Tan)
13. deadpoet (AP)
14. redstone (CHK)
15. mattlock (jing)
16. scud (YC)
17. cheesecake (wanghonghong)
18. drakon09 (darren goh)
19. ortega (Alex Ortega)
20. drumma (liji)
21. sjourn (CPS)
22. Maddyks (KS)
23. josho (Josh Ong)
24. initialE24 (win)
25. rayz (raymond tan)
26. zaren (AJH)
27. raptor84 (Nicholas Lee)
28. sORe-EyEz (K.M. Ang)
29. hobbit6003 (K Poh)
30. Hexlord (TK)
31. wrkshy (Regina De Rozario)
32. clown (James Tan)
33. night86mare (CWK)
34. Stratix (Gary)
35. feimao07 (Jason Mah)
36. jsbn (JK)
37. blazer_workz (James Fong)
38. yqt (W.T. HO)
39. danz chong (Danny Chong)
40. zaxh81 (Louis Leow)
41. bowwow (dez
42. xray (XJ Lee)
43.glensky (genald tungol)
44. leekch (Thomas Lee)
45. AQVA (Kelvin Fang)
46. sh_37(Yong.S.H)
47. dark_fusion (Noel S.)