Altar of Lost Traits

[CZJena]

Starting this thread in sort of self-reflection and a new framework for my future work.

Since Yr 2001, been "bombarded" with lots of digital imaging (digitech) craze ... and i expect to see it crash to ash in future when digicam devalued alike quartz watch($5) against swiss watch($250,000). The same old trend will repeat itself in history. Lots of articles "film vs digitech" and such, and history seems to fall towards digitech...

This thought began a new departure of my personal journey of meditation in fotographi last year. Started with delving into books and biography of masters in search of meaning of this science-art medium, wandered around streets and frequent discussions and meditations with inspiring phototaking friends.

With digitech still eeking behind my neck, i stand firm and venture out again with my manual 35mm RF naked. This is the moment of joy (not that of spending $20 to print a 36 frames 4R roll against "free" digital) when i feel something amazing started to happen:

1. The weight of my oldies quips, slow down my impulse, let me focus on my composition.
2. I learn ways to flow my soul into my oldies to make it onpar with digitech, and even gain extra edge.
3. Meditation goes deeper, to forget about image sharpness, realness, relevant and even start tearing down those poisonous magazine image in my mind, all in search of my soul.
4. Hearing the Enigma music "back to innocent" in my ears now...
5. Who's that Lomo guy? ...

My wave comes again new in 2007 !!!

Thanks for dropping by my "Altar of Lost Traits", hear you soon...

 

[chiif]

Hi CZJena,

Nice to know the passion it's coming back again...

I believe we can still keep this spirit strong among the RF community here in Singapore/Malaysia and even Asia. Though the dark side is still lurking us to join them, there is always sense and sensibility in us to follow our hearts & soul and create something we call... art.

Just like in the shares market... like what Kiyosaki & Buffet always say: if you follow the herd, you will only get to eat the left over grass. If you go to places not touched by most people, you get to eat the freshest green grass. Mooooooooo

Well, for those who are tired of digital want to get into 35mm RF, you know who & where to get the stuff...

 

[CZJena]

In time to come, i hope to see myself and more people start (not a bloody revolution) sharing their thoughts on WHY (opposite to HOW) we think we should BE what we see in OUR fotographs. This will be a place where we meditate and find our existence. If you need technical datasheets and price comparisons, you could do better somewhere else. What i hope we can achieve is go beyond the 2nd-dimension (some claimed 3rd) of foto imaging, and start thinking and feeling from within (i call the "lost 5th", its "Lost" because its hidden). Why i name this thread is there are less than 5% (percent) of fotographic books researching into this arena, and there are far more zombies out there. All in all we can achieve greater joy and depth far from just triggering our shutter-release. Our mind is the most powerful tool ever "created".

To begin, let me share with you one of my mentor, Eugene Atget,
Start by visiting this wonderful archive, to view his slides:
http://masters-of-photography.com/A/atget/atget.html
and from wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugène_Atget

 

[student]

To begin, let me share with you one of my mentor, Eugene Atget,
Start by visiting this wonderful archive, to view his slides:
http://masters-of-photography.com/A/atget/atget.html
and from wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugène_Atget

Do you know that the first picture by Atget in the first link was a posed shot? Well, it really does not matter. It is a wonderful picture anyway!

Coming back to your comments.

Certainly, the choice of equipment affects the work process. I myself use rangefinder equipments, as well as view cameras which are even supposedly more "contemplative".

Allow me to make a silly analogy.

The rangefinder in "those days" are to viewcameras, as digital cameras today to the rangefinder.

I believe the making of art is independent of the equipment. Art is made with the "heart and soul". The equipment is, well, the equipment.

A writer do not write better novels with a feather or a computer. The computer may make the physical act of writing easier. But the story must come from within. On the other hand, just because one use a feather and labor more, it does not follow that the novel will be better than if he writes the story with a computer.

 

[clubgrit]

Nice to hear that, CZJena

Well, I agree that equipment does not matter in the simplest sense to make art, but it does help to have the right equipment. Otherwise, everyone should just use our handphone cameras. In an interview with David Bailey's assistant, he mentioned that Bailey was easy to work with, and the most difficult part is just the time spent, as Bailey liked to use all the cameras on hand in the studio to take the same shot, and then choose which one he prefers the most.

In time, we do tend to prefer some equipment over others, even film. It just serves to add another dimension to our efforts in taking photos. Even musicians tend to gravitate toward certain preferred equipment, although they can make music with anything. Writers are of course different, the kind of pen really does not matter. Painters may prefer watercolor today, oil tomorrow.

 

[student]

Nice to hear that, CZJena

Well, I agree that equipment does not matter in the simplest sense to make art, but it does help to have the right equipment. Otherwise, everyone should just use our handphone cameras. In an interview with David Bailey's assistant, he mentioned that Bailey was easy to work with, and the most difficult part is just the time spent, as Bailey liked to use all the cameras on hand in the studio to take the same shot, and then choose which one he prefers the most.

In time, we do tend to prefer some equipment over others, even film. It just serves to add another dimension to our efforts in taking photos. Even musicians tend to gravitate toward certain preferred equipment, although they can make music with anything. Writers are of course different, the kind of pen really does not matter. Painters may prefer watercolor today, oil tomorrow.

It is obvious that equipment is important. We need tools to get things done. If one wishes to make art from underwater sceneries, then one needs to have the right equipment for the job.

What I am saying is that in the concept of "art-making", the basic essential is the "idea". Then one choses the right equipment for the job. I prefer film because I like the silver print more than the inkjet. However, I have seen some amazing B&W inkjet images.

We may gravitate towards certain equipment because those equipment suit us better. But those equipment do not give you better "ideas".

 

[CZJena]

Thanks for your good thoughts. I hope you'd already realize about association and relative relationship here, mind you i am not a psychologist. Major part of the framework of communication is about associations. I agree that images made by digital, film, painting, elephant drawing have "slight" differences, but it can only bring about meaning in the right context, the right perception, the culture (you can choose not to be affected, and just be yourself).

Just bringing you back to the 5th level again: you have all the tools in hand, important is Are you discovering yourself with it well and bringing it across (figuratively opens up your heart) to show others. Its a mental as well as social process, a plane where we finds ourselves and associates with the rest. Its an ongoing iterative process for us to find ourselves, thru associations in the tenet of current and future society, if not we may end up in some mental treatment center.

Of course a step further on how to confront people who gives comments on your work, or decides whether to drown yourself, is totally another matter. Important thing is, in this process can we "Be true to ourselves", meditates on this and you will find great joy.

 

[CZJena]

Not to forget about zombies who sell their soul as slave for others' appetites... Well i never disagree to people who wants that just for survival. Simply weight the consequences.

Please forgive my vulgarity sometime

I love that scene of "The Da Vinci Code", when Robert present in hall those slides about symbols, take a look back at Atget's "Saint-Cloud" (1921-22), cone trees in the park.

 

[CZJena]

Learned chinese calligraphy from my dad since teenage, seldom pick up my pen these days, only when some big notice board size required in presentation/lecture. i realized that the amount of visual information containing in that few strokes, can even be a clue to something very important.

Its symbolic, the meaning of phase just add another dimension ontop of it, i would be surprised how the sutra can be represent entirely just on image/drawing alone, despite the old saying "A picture tells a thousands words"

Last year around Lunar new year period, was at Hangzhou, China, met one of most renown contemporary artist/sculpturist, where i was shown the art of sculpture/cubism + words, i was amazed. if i gain my financial freedom someday, first thing besides travelling next will be sculpturing.

 

[CZJena]

One things that is underlying our pupils (eye) in relation with color fotos is Color!
Have you ever wonder then, whats the relationship between individual hue/tone/saturation of color with ourselves?

I'll refer you to some color theory http://www.color-wheel-pro.com/color-meaning.html
Some researchers believe that its in our subconscious level in interpreting the emotion caused by triggering color. Try to see your dream's color *joking*.

What about B&W if you ask. well its has higher intensity. You can think of it as pure orange juice without ice or syrup. How it taste? That's right: "Pure". Without color your concentration goes for the form and texture in the fotograph, and study shows that it has higher impact to your subconscious than color foto. How about pure color hue e.g. pure red? Answer goes back to the color theory mentioned.

"Study our own mind before any other (studies)" -- Buddhism, interpreted in Quantum Physics as ultimate reality

 

[CZJena]

Have you ever count the number of different image formats (size/proportion)?
The most varieties comes from MF (medium format), you will find 6x6 6x7 6x9 6x12 etc.
Read this article by Ken: http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/format.htm
6x9 has the same proportion as 24x36 (our common 135 format), have you ever wonder why?

Some say 6x6 looks better and optimal, you have to experiment with different format and see how they affect your finished image yourself.
Most famous is paranoma/paranomic ie. 360deg where the image is taken with a rotating camera in-sync when the shutter triggered.

Personally i saw great landscape fotographs in book taken with 6x6 more than 5 years back, but now seems to lost those nice textbooks from our NLB.

There are "geometric" artists and fotographers like Henri-Bresson who obsessed by geometry and format, one principle practiced by him was never to crop his image and disallows others to do it on his images as well (preservation of geometry).

 

[alternatve]

Have you ever count the number of different image formats (size/proportion)?
The most varieties comes from MF (medium format), you will find 6x6 6x7 6x9 6x12 etc.
Read this article by Ken: http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/format.htm
6x9 has the same proportion as 24x36 (our common 135 format), have you ever wonder why?

Some say 6x6 looks better and optimal, you have to experiment with different format and see how they affect your finished image yourself.
Most famous is paranoma/paranomic ie. 360deg where the image is taken with a rotating camera in-sync when the shutter triggered.

Personally i saw great landscape fotographs in book taken with 6x6 more than 5 years back, but now seems to lost those nice textbooks from our NLB.
There are "geometric" artists and fotographers like Henri-Bresson who obsessed by geometry and format, one principle practiced by him is never to crop his image (preservation).

Medium Format film seem to be dying out, not so much as less people are using it, but the film makers are getting reluctant to produce any, especially with the digital onslaught.

 

[bahibo]

no no no.film may be used less but medium format havent change,still a lot users,most of them are pro, medium format is not a format under film but live it's own life. To replace medium format u have to buy a digital back which is expensive and still have some flaw.

 

[CZJena]

Medium Format film seem to be dying out, not so much as less people are using it, but the film makers are getting reluctant to produce any, especially with the digital onslaught.

I can understand the difficulty of bridging professionals and amateurs, the main reason is they seems to be far distance apart in *different spaces*. You have to go into professional studio and near professional landscapists' lap to see them carrying their MF/LF. Their passion and quality will stunt you so much that amateurs just pull their shirt over their DSLR. I do not want to dwell too deeply into technical details here, you can read more at
http://philip.greenspun.com/
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/
or photo.net for more info

 

[alternatve]

Wow... wayy over my head. But then again, those are professionals, I'm an amateur amateur. Lol.

 

[CZJena]

Philip greenspun maintains a great rich book here at
http://www.photo.net/making-photographs/
More about format here
http://www.photo.net/equipment/medium-format/choosing

 

[student]

Wow... wayy over my head. But then again, those are professionals, I'm an amateur amateur. Lol.

I am an amateur+++++++

And an amateur++++++++++++++ in the forseeable future.

 

[CZJena]

Consciously understands our motive in fotographi is crucial to how much we can derive from it.

When our mind has the clear concept of what we want, we tend to capture and communicate better. I do know some people just wait for opportunity and chance, but those who plan or conceptualize earlier and do preparation tend to capture that chance well.

Simple example is when i *want* to capture people's activity at certain area, i would study beforehand where, when and how i can best prepared; if i go street shooting in Little India for people on sunday, i would fix my wide-angle for overview shot, and medium range focal lens for capturing details, if i am into the crowd i find 35mm lens and fast speed easier, if i stand further away or high ground i will try the longer lens with good depth-of-field and speedier. If i want to see more outlines i go around noon/afternoon, if i go for facial expression i will wait for morning or evening time. There are just alot more and it takes many experience to find yourself (mind) in-tune with the environment and your gears.

On bigger sense, you may want to build a album of certain theme,
On longer term you may tends towards certain style or philosophy...
So be "selective" and you will develop faster in that area ...

 

[The_Cheat]

I can understand the difficulty of bridging professionals and amateurs, the main reason is they seems to be far distance apart in *different spaces*. You have to go into professional studio and near professional landscapists' lap to see them carrying their MF/LF. Their passion and quality will stunt you so much that amateurs just pull their shirt over their DSLR. I do not want to dwell too deeply into technical details here, you can read more at
http://philip.greenspun.com/
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/
or photo.net for more info

I beg to differ that professionals are using MF/LF, and amateur DSLR. The reality in this time and age is that the professionals are using DSLR, and the amateur are the ones who still persisting to shoot with MF/LF.

One thing we must get it straight, professional doesn't necessarily mean their level of skill in photography. Professional simply means that the person do it for a living. For instance, a person who work full-time in engineer. They are called professional engineers. A person who work full-time in a IT firm as a programmer are called professional programmer. So a professional photographer is one who does full-time photographer.

A free-lancer means one who occasionally do some project/job. Free-lance photographers are those who aren't employed by a studio or gallery (or own one), and are looped in to do specific project, be it architectural, advertising, artistic or for wedding. There are a lot of free-lancing photographers here in CS.

An amateur refer to someone who are passionate about the craft. The root word of amateur is a latin word amator, which refers to as a lover, devoted friend, devotee or enthusiastic pursuer of an objective. So an amateur photographer is one who love photography as itself, and not in it for the sake of money or fame. One should not mistake "amateur" with the adjective "amateurish", which refer to lacking of expertise. An amateur need not be amateurish.

Now, the reason why professionals are increasingly adopting DSLR in favour of MF/LF is for the conveniences that the digital technology provide. All professionals know that they need to honour the request of the client within a certain time-frame. In the past, when digital technology is not that advance, thinking of adopting that conveniences is unthinkable. But the gulf between digital and film have reduced quite a bit in these few years, getting shallower by the minute, it is now possible to give reasonably good pictures for their clients. As for as I know, the only group that is still resistant to adoption of digital, is the fine-art photography professionals, associated with galleries. Apparently, digital is still "not there yet" to appease the gallery goers and photograph collectors.

Amateurs are the likely ones to adopt MF and LF, since they are not under pressure to produce work within a certain time-frame. And frankly, MF and LF isn't really that expensive, if you're willing to go to the second-hand market. A lot of studios are simply ridding these systems, that the pricing are competitive or even lower than DSLR. And best of all, seeing images on a negative numerous time bigger than the 135 format is satisfying (well, satisfying to me at least). Just go visit the large format photography forum, and you'll realise that most of the members there are amateurs!

Note, a number of professionals too shoot with MF and LF for their personal pleasure (non-commissioned work) in their free time.

 

[CZJena]

Quoting the dictionary:

adj.
1.
a. Of, relating to, engaged in, or suitable for a profession: lawyers, doctors, and other professional people.
b. Conforming to the standards of a profession: professional behavior.
2. Engaging in a given activity as a source of livelihood or as a career: a professional writer.
3. Performed by persons receiving pay: professional football.
4. Having or showing great skill; expert: a professional repair job.
n.
1. A person following a profession, especially a learned profession.
2. One who earns a living in a given or implied occupation: hired a professional to decorate the house.
3. A skilled practitioner; an expert.

Using adjective as define no.4 & noun no.3,
My argument is due to the uneducated consumer behavior/preception, they are willing to accept "Professional (The_Cheat's definition)" without expertise or skill ...ironic and sad ... poor consumer consumer also respect money more and tend to compromise quality, thats their choice, but nothing to do with my "Professional" who is not a *Slave*!