A2 lens/CCD compatibility

[synapseman]

It seems to be that the A1 (and probably the A2) uses the same GT lens as that found on the D7* series. In the 7Hi brochure, it says something like the lens is good enough for a 7-megapixel imager. I suspect that the A2 uses this same lens, and since it has an 8MP CCD, doesn't that mean quality has been compromised?

 

[forbytes]

no, it was able to maintain, provided if you focus properly.

 

[chriszzz]

It seems to be that the A1 (and probably the A2) uses the same GT lens as that found on the D7* series. In the 7Hi brochure, it says something like the lens is good enough for a 7-megapixel imager. I suspect that the A2 uses this same lens, and since it has an 8MP CCD, doesn't that mean quality has been compromised?

A2 was rated lower than the competition by PhilAskey of dpreview ( http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/konicaminoltaa2/page17.asp ). The Oly 8080 was rated highest in terms of image quality, while the A2 was lowest. The others ( Nikon 8700, Canon Pro1, Sony 828) were in the middle.

He said "Imagine the disappointment then when we discovered that while fast the AF system seemed a bit hit and miss, showing us the white AF OK indicator dot when in fact the focus was either way out or just slightly out. We also had some issues with randomly soft images (as well as AF misses) and artifacts from moiré - I think the lens is being used beyond it's capabilities."


Looking at the test shots, the difference is quite small even between the highest ranked Oly and the lowest ranked A2. I believe that all of them are very capable cameras, and you would be hard pressed to tell which photo was taken by which in a blind test in the real world ( as opposed to controlled studio test shots). But the iffy AF would be a real problem in the real world.

 

[synapseman]

Heh. It's probably more of a marketing slip-up than anything, eh?

 

[TME]

Not sure about the AF though.... dpreviwe might have put it on the rack to max out the capability but most people buying the A2 might not push the AF system to the limit.... it's still prosumer....

 

[mquek]

Discover autofocus problem on Dimage A2 and camera service department at Funan Centre confirmed this autofocus problem even with their test sets.

I have escalated this problem officially and still awaiting for Konica Minolta reply.

Below is my escalation to konica camera service department in Singapore

To : camera.service@ph.konicaminolta.com

Hi,

Against all advice to wait for market guinea pigs to test out the new 8MP digital cameras first before making the decision. I enthusiastically made the choice to purchase Dimage A2 last month. Believing that A2 is the safest choice to make as it is a enhancement over the hugely successful predecessor A1. Unfortunately, I am dead wrong.

While the features of A2 lives up to the expectation which I am very happy with. After taking about 500 pictures, I realise that all these strong features does not matter if the camera cannot take a sharp picture. Too many times my A2 produced ultra-soft and out of focus images when it should not be.

Thinking that I just had bad luck with my camera, I approached Konica and Minolta Service Centre for advice and was rendered with great customer service by Andy. Knowing the AF problem is a serious problem, Andy made a number tests with the A2 display sets and confirmed that problem I experienced is not unique to my camera The same problem existing on the Dimage A2 display sets in the showroom.

As advised by Andy, I am writing to escalate this problem to Konica Minolta officially to address this problem. I hope Konica Minolta can feedback on your plans to solve this problem.

 

[ZhiJie]

Would you mind post some sample images?

 

[mquek]

I have some samples showing this autofocus problem but shrinking them from 8mb to upload to the clubsnap website will make the picture sharp. So I dun see the point of posting it here.

Anyway, if anyone who want see the problem for themselve can try this with A2 under control condition: indoors without flash on a document subject using multi-segment metering, flex focus point, spot AE and Program mode setting.

In my testing, out of 10 pictures taken 3 are out of focus. During the testing in Funan Service Centre 2 out of 3 are out of focus.

 

[ZhiJie]

Thanks for the reply.

I have not tested under the conditions you mentioned but I do admit that the images straight out of camera, even with sharpening set to "Hard" is still soft compare to other digicam. I did post processing. Images are acceptable after the sharpening. But I have not encountered any ultra soft or out of focus pictures. But again, I have not tested this under thoroughly under different conditions. Will try.

 

[ZhiJie]

Btw, for those who are in doubt about the sharpness of the lens, here's a sample image captured in RAW but post processed. (But using MF instead of AF). Image straight out of camera is soft and need to do some sharpening.

I've also used AF, spot metering, FFP, Aperture priority and did not get out of focus images. As I said, images are generally soft. I have to do more testings to see if I can reproduce the OOF problem.

 

[webstop]

Does the A1 has the same problem too?

 

[ZhiJie]

Does the A1 has the same problem too?

I'm not sure about A1 but have not heard A1 users reporting any AF issue. So, I suppose this problem is unique to A2 only.

My thinking is that if A1 doesn't have this problem, then it's very likely it's due to firmware bug(s) in A2. The reason is because A1 and A2 are almost identical in features. KM claim A2 has faster focusing speed. I think KM engineers probably trying to do improve AF speed but the solution is not perfect and this AF issues popup under certain conditions. If this theory is correct, there's very high chance this can be fixed with future firmware upgrade. I'm more concern if this is a hardware/design issue.

 

[tbteng]

Does the A1 has the same problem too?

I'm an A1er. I don't seem to have this problem. The pictures seems sharp to me. I believe this is affecting the A2 only as I have not really heard such serious sharpness problems regarding the A1.

But there is a bit of noise on the A1 images and I do not know if this is prevalent in the A2. I solved that easily using the Helicon Noise Filters and
achieved sharp and well balanced photos.

Zhi-Jie - Are you the Zijie from last year's NPS macro workshop shooting with
the Olympus C-730?

 

[forbytes]

A few issues to clearify,

1) Under wide focus, the image is generally on the soft side. Point flex focus can eliminate that. This has to do with the processing on the camera. A1/A2 problem. I believed that this can be solved with a firmware upgrade from Minolta.

2) focus point, if you try to focus on arch/curved surface, super bright/dark surface, focus will also tend to be off. This can be solved by focusing on a planar surface and do focus hold and shift. common problem with AF camera.

3) shake, pretty obvious, applies to all types of camera.

4) depth of view, under p-mode, if any one notice, in a dark/shade environment, the aperture always open wide. Hence, the subject may be sharp in a portion of the image but not the rest. Using A-mode and a smaller hole will increase the area in focused. In macro shooting, aperture are often opened up between f8-f16. As for A1/A2, try between f8-f11.

5) minimum focus distance, in macro shooting, people often move in as near to the subject as possible. if you worked past the min. focus distance, images will not be sharp, applies to all camera and lens.

6) focus technique, normally it is half press the focus button, AF locks and press all the way to capture the image. If the camera moved during the period between AF locks and press all the way, images will also not be sharp. applies to all camera.

I guessed all of you know about the above mentioned. If Andy had tested the camera and conclude that the images is indeed not sharp, then I suppose all of the above mentioned are complied except point (1).

I have tested A2 before. If all of the above are complied, the images can be really sharp and my doubt that the lens is not able to resolve at 8 MP is cleared.

 

[forbytes]

apparently, this problem is more serious in A2 than in A1

 

[deslim27]

A few issues to clearify,

1) Under wide focus, the image is generally on the soft side. Point flex focus can eliminate that. This has to do with the processing on the camera. A1/A2 problem. I believed that this can be solved with a firmware upgrade from Minolta.

2) focus point, if you try to focus on arch/curved surface, super bright/dark surface, focus will also tend to be off. This can be solved by focusing on a planar surface and do focus hold and shift. common problem with AF camera.

3) shake, pretty obvious, applies to all types of camera.

4) depth of view, under p-mode, if any one notice, in a dark/shade environment, the aperture always open wide. Hence, the subject may be sharp in a portion of the image but not the rest. Using A-mode and a smaller hole will increase the area in focused. In macro shooting, aperture are often opened up between f8-f16. As for A1/A2, try between f8-f11.

5) minimum focus distance, in macro shooting, people often move in as near to the subject as possible. if you worked past the min. focus distance, images will not be sharp, applies to all camera and lens.

6) focus technique, normally it is half press the focus button, AF locks and press all the way to capture the image. If the camera moved during the period between AF locks and press all the way, images will also not be sharp. applies to all camera.

I guessed all of you know about the above mentioned. If Andy had tested the camera and conclude that the images is indeed not sharp, then I suppose all of the above mentioned are complied except point (1).

I have tested A2 before. If all of the above are complied, the images can be really sharp and my doubt that the lens is not able to resolve at 8 MP is cleared.

Hi Forbytes,

Other than point 1, the rests are operator fault mah :bsmilie:

Edit: Typo :embrass:

 

[forbytes]

Hi deslim, they are not faults of operators , well, sometimes shooters may be so engross into taking the pictures and put all these dos aside mah.

 

[sulhan]

It seems to be that the A1 (and probably the A2) uses the same GT lens as that found on the D7* series. In the 7Hi brochure, it says something like the lens is good enough for a 7-megapixel imager. I suspect that the A2 uses this same lens, and since it has an 8MP CCD, doesn't that mean quality has been compromised?

It could just for the following reason. When 7Hi was launced.....it may be that they weren't expecting a 8mpix CCD in the 8.8mmx6.6mm config.

If there to be a 10Mpix CCD with size similar to that of the 8.8mmx6.6mm sensors type i dont see why there may be a problem using the same GT lens.

The image circle is still the same and as long the sensor sits in the sweet spot of the image circle....its should still be okay. Except that chromatic abberation may be more stretched out(more obvious as more pixels are made to represent these defects.

Even in Dimage A1, if you look properly in images with back sunlight silhoutte
or shiny metal/chrome bars you will still see it.

So packing more sensors into the same small size may be an overkil at times.....and introduce more problems at time

Imagine if i have a photo of a hair strand of which is as fine as one pixel. If you Enlarge this image of the line.....you will only see this line as it is - 1 pixel.

However, if you have more pixels (higher maginification) ~ representing the same hair strand....now you have a broader ...e.g greyish+black+greyish line (curvature of the hair surface)......then you will complain.....not sharp lah...etc.

Well......i think that could be the main reson that the APS sensors may plateu
for a while as 6mpix is more than enough for our normal use.....for details that we need......in normal photography......


hheehehehe.....juz a thought......


rgds,
me

home away from home.........

 

[deslim27]

Hi deslim, they are not faults of operators , well, sometimes shooters may be so engross into taking the pictures and put all these dos aside mah.

May be 'operator fault' not so suitable, should be 'operator mistake'. At least, other than point 1, it isn't a camera defect. I do read many complaint on softness and out of focus issue in A2, hope KM will released a firmware update soon. Its a shame that such a good camera has these problems..

 

[bigsnapper]

i have been tracking this issue on the web for some time, not just here as well as other overseas forums concerning the now what i consider the infamous Minolta soft/out of focus issue.

i came to notice this when i came across the Dimage 5.
yes, all the mkgt had the GT lens hyped real high, but strangely this issue was reported across several models since, now the equally infamous A2.

at first, i thought i was novice and possibly the soft/out focus was due to:
1. shake - so i got a tripod
2. inexperience - so i got someone better to help out and we took more than a couple of shots
3. technical fault - so the CCD and the entire circuit board (yes, entire innards) is changed anew

pretty drastic heh, but surprise surprise, the problem manage persist still.
the focus lock is simply lying, maybe not all the time, but definitely at times. theres is nothing you can do by the time you open it full screen period.

though, i did notice some improvements if certain photography techniques are observed carefully, but again the problem pop up here and there.

in reality, a big bunch of people from all over the world had already chipped in a petition somewhere on the web addressed to Minolta since the Dimage 5/7 days for them to take active actions. actually i was hoping that this prob should have been resolved by the A2 gen, but obviously, it fell through still.

when the focus works, the kit is great. but when it just missed, it is really really frustrating when you know its very likely not your fault. hopefully i am not biased.

now do i see a new Minolta DSLR in the that glass case across the showroom?