A K5 for half the price?

[CorneliusK]

A huge DR is not just nice for landscape. Can the C3 do this?

 

[tsammyc]

Quite impressive DR with minimal blown highlights. I suppose if I were to try it on the C3, I might set ISO 200 -2 EV exposure compensation. Then take the underexposed image into Light Room and fiddle with the exposure, levels and fill light and hope that the legendary EXMOR sensor allows me to boost without noise

But in practice, I have a K5 and a C3. If the girl in the picture were a model in my employ, then I'd use the K5. But if I were spying on some lady I don't know in the botanic gardens from 50m away with a zoom lens, I'd use the C3, flip up the articulating LCD, hold the C3 just above my stomach, and pretend that I'm reviewing some photos while firing away furiously at her.

 

[poppyer]

when a plane is taxiing on the ground, it could be as slow as a normal car.
but we don't say they are using the same motor, and the important thing is, a plane can fly.

btw, you can have a problem. but better not with me.

dude, my only problem with you is your claim that the 2 stops difference in dynamic range is because its a different cheaper sensor. The DXOMark charts clearly show that at ISO 200 and above they are close and even DXOMark thinks its the same sensor. The fact that Sony chose not to go down to ISO 80 doesn't mean that its a different sensor. Didn't Nikon chose to go down to "only" ISO 100 with the same sensor. Anyway only eccentric landscape photographers seem to like the fact that the K5 does ISO 80. Most of us normal chaps don't spend our early mornings trudging around the great outdoors are more happy about the way the K5 does high ISO, so were not that concerned that the C3 doesn't do ISO 80.

 

[pinholecam]

Have you ever had a camera with an articulating LCD? I'm told that once you use one, you'll never go back

You sound like a Leica man. Good ones can look at a subject, estimate the distance exactly and then dial it into their M9, lift and shoot. Unfortunately mere mortals like me cannot estimate distance and need to focus or maybe I don't have as much time as you to practice

I do think the articulating LCD will be excellent for street shots and they will be "stomach shots" I will hold the NEX close my body just above the stomach and flip up the LCD so I can frame the shot and focus. This will work very well with my bifocal glasses. No one will know that I'm taking pictures. Kind of like the old days with medium format cameras.

I've had one on a pns. Did not use it much. No light and day to my way of shooting, frankly.
I have a couple of top>down viewing TLRs and a Mamiya RB67, the only advantage I see is how it takes away the self consciousness that I am taking a photo. Not really the actual fact that I am pointing a thingy at the subject.

Using hyper-focal distance, pre-set zone of focus, hip-style shots, AF-S, AF-C, are all just part of the bag of tricks a photographer has to get the shots. The more you know, the more versatile you can be. It can be done on most cameras, not cause it Leica style or whatsoever.

If you put a Pentax prime on it, its not going to be small, but in total its only about 1/3 of my K5 in size so I think my "stomach shot" technique should work quite very unobtrusively with it. My hand should hide most of the lens.

Must say your wife is very nice to you. Mine will definitely not follow me around if I'm shooting.

Precisely. An even smaller camera like a compact can work as well and be less conspicuous. Even with a DSLR, I just bring the camera to chest level, point it in the direction that I want and take the shot. With a wide angle lens like 10-20, DA15mm, its a sure shot.

BTW, my wife is just doing this on tour, and the 2nd camera (pns) just becomes her camera for her to take what she wants.

take the 2nd b&w pic for example, and compare it with joe wigfall who uses his hands. pinhole's example is too rigid in framing. this is the kind of effect you will continue to get if you shoot from the hip, what more with an articulating screen. joe wigfall aims with his hands, which is way more flexible with higher degree of freedom. and the feedback from a shot (mirror slap) is also important, vs an electronic shutter

Firstly, no way to move back anymore for the shot. Its inside a train and I'm on the seat facing them.
Secondly, I actually cropped this the way it is, as I wanted it to just be about young ppl in love and in happy times.
Lastly, Joe Wigfall is far better than this lens junkie that only takes family snapshot photos (ie. me)

dude, my only problem with you is your claim that the 2 stops difference in dynamic range is because its a different cheaper sensor. The DXOMark charts clearly show that at ISO 200 and above they are close and even DXOMark thinks its the same sensor. The fact that Sony chose not to go down to ISO 80 doesn't mean that its a different sensor. Didn't Nikon chose to go down to "only" ISO 100 with the same sensor. Anyway only eccentric landscape photographers seem to like the fact that the K5 does ISO 80. Most of us normal chaps don't spend our early mornings trudging around the great outdoors are more happy about the way the K5 does high ISO, so were not that concerned that the C3 doesn't do ISO 80.

Disagee. It could also mean that the sensors used by Nikony are the cheaper 'fail' ISO80 testing ones
Therefore cheaper.
Its not wrong for to do that (if true). Just a marketing and engineering call since it affects cost and sale price. Most ppl may be happy enough with ISO100 or 200 at lowest end, but its not irrelevant nor useless as you claim.

Saying that ISO80 is only for eccentric landscape ppl is incorrect.
I think Corneliusk has already shown that its pretty useful for people shots as well. I do that too.
Flash shots outdoors and max flash sync is already reached? Yes, that ISO80 will be useful here too.
Slower shutter speed needed and limited by f8 or f16 or max out at f22? Yes, ISO80 again.
More DR in any shot, so that I have the luxury to choose the amount of DR I want to show later via PP? Yes, useful again.

 

[tsammyc]

Disagee. It could also mean that the sensors used by Nikony are the cheaper 'fail' ISO80 testing ones
Therefore cheaper.

I doubt that because the measurements are so close. Not that I'm promoting Nikon or anything, but when DXOMark measured actual ISO, it was even closer. ISO 100 was actually 83 for Nikon and ISO 80 was 70 for the K5. Perhaps Pentax is pushing the boundaries on the Exmor sensor, while Nikon is playing it safe and the C3 is limited for commercial purposes.

 

[tsammyc]

After a morning of testing my stomach shot articulating LCD in Botanic Gardens, I can completely disagree with pinholecam :bsmilie: in that the articulating LCD is very useful in getting stealthy shots. Not a single person looked at me and I avoided their gaze anyway because I was looking down at my articulated LCD. At F1.8, focussing is extremely important. Maybe its not the way others like to do their street photography, by hey, to each his own. Here are a few results with the NEX-C3 and Pentax FA77 1.8. I think all the shots are at 1.8 and all landscape because of the way I hold the cam and generally, I try to be seated. The C3 seems perfect for shy people like me....

 

[tsammyc]

I was initially disappointed about this shot because I liked it, but it was too blur. So, following someones suggestion earlier that street photographs can be blur, I turned it into a B&W and now I like it

 

[pinholecam]

"A K5 for half the price?"
more like
"A K5 for half the price."

No point in me saying anything anymore.
The points I want to make are already said.

 

[tsammyc]

Pinholecam, I have to thank you for your input as I think I have learned quite a bit from the discussion. In fact, I just turned on "expanded sensitity" on my K5 so I can try the ISO 80 you and Cornelius find useful. The title was meant to attract attention to this thread. I don't believe that the C3 is anywhere close to a K5 in overall capability and the K5 will serve me for many years to come. Like many here, we have a large investment in Pentax lenses and the C3 extends my ability to use them when there is a situation that isn't suitable for my K5 and I want better bokeh than my Canon S95 can produce. I have two lenses for the C3 and they are a pale shadow of the Pentax primes, so the E to K mount USD15 adapter from ebay has been my killer app.

 

[reign226]

tsammyc thanks for the insightful discussion. I like yourself have been intrigued by the peaking function of the Sony lenses and lets be honest they have been innovating the photography recently with technologies like SLT, APS-C mirrorless, etc. If only their lenses weren't crap made from plastic and cost a small family...but then again somebody needs to pick up the R&D bills right?

I like yourself have thought of getting the C3 and an adapter for mounting Pentax glass. This seems like the perfect solution for getting a small form factor (albeit akward, but small is small) without compromising on image quality. After checking out the few shots here, it is now a serious consideration rather than a viable idea. I am wondering have you tried out with some long manual focus lenses like the 135mm? Some more shots of the combo will also be interesting. Thanks.

 

[tsammyc]

The longest lens I have with aperture control is a Tamron 90 macro lens. However, I am now considering buying one of the more expensive E to K mount adapters with aperture control so that I can use my DA lenses with the C3. I'll take some shots this weekend with the Tamron 90.

The Sony lenses are relative crap, but they are not made of plastic. Their lightness comes from magnesium alloy. They are still useful as a P&S for the rest of the family members.

 

[tsammyc]

I just ordered a NEX adapter that has aperture control for Pentax DA lenses. Apparently, it is stepless, so I don't know the exact aperture. It costs $112 and is made by Kipon. There was an adapter for around $50 and the Novoflex (German) adapters are about $300, so this seems like a good compromise. Here is the ebay link

http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/Kipon-Pentax...ns_caps_hoods_adaptors_ET&hash=item4cf77bc945

 

[CorneliusK]

Sony needs more appreciation for all the work they are doing to push the limits of photographic devices. SLTs, multi shot twilight mode, tilting flash heads, mirror lens which can AF, sweep panorama, and now the very cool peaking function.

Not to mention the awesome, awesome sensors that they keep churning out - life is never the same once you have tasted the sweetness of EXMOR...

 

[snapnut]

tsammyc... glad that you are trying out new options with K lens and having lots of fun

I just want to say I'm for the tilting LCD.
With my Kx... people look at me even when I take photos of my own kids.
With my GH1 tilt LCD... I can take street shots easily and people think I am reviewing my pics.

Sadly I do not have a single AF M43 lens to use.... they are especially great for videos.

 

[reign226]

Do test out with DA lenses with the adapter. I assume its an adapter with an aperture ring which you control manually?

 

[tsammyc]

Do test out with DA lenses with the adapter. I assume its an adapter with an aperture ring which you control manually?

Yes, but I think the ring controls the aperture in the lens rather than its own aperture. I'd be concerned about the bokeh otherwise. It shipped yesterday, so hopefully, I'll be able to test it this weekend.

 

[airconvent]

Yes, but I think the ring controls the aperture in the lens rather than its own aperture. I'd be concerned about the bokeh otherwise. It shipped yesterday, so hopefully, I'll be able to test it this weekend.

Hi sammy
Do let us know how it turns out. Seems pretty interesting because it would mean I can use my DA lenses with aperture control on my NEX5 too. :0

 

[tsammyc]

Yes, but I think the ring controls the aperture in the lens rather than its own aperture. I'd be concerned about the bokeh otherwise. It shipped yesterday, so hopefully, I'll be able to test it this weekend.

Did you update your NEX-5 firmware with the peaking function yet?

 

[gtl1987]

Looks like a nice option of street shots, but I am holding out for the rumored pentax APS-C mirrorless. Problem is with the DA limiteds, they are hard to MF accurately, and only MF is available with the NEX C3 am I right?

 

[tsammyc]

Looks like a nice option of street shots, but I am holding out for the rumored pentax APS-C mirrorless. Problem is with the DA limiteds, they are hard to MF accurately, and only MF is available with the NEX C3 am I right?

Yes, only manual focus. But the C3 has peaking focus, so as you manual focus, objects that are in focus are highlighted. Makes it very easy to manual focus. Actually even better than autofocus because if the object you want to focus on is at the side of the frame on my K5, I aim the center at the object, half press the shutter and then compose the frame. On the C3, its much easier, frame first and then turn the manual focus until the object is highlighted and shoot. No need to recompose.