5D MK 2 Discussion: Black dots at high exposure

[Rayrider]

Hi,

As mentioned in my previous reply, if you wait long enough for Canon Digital Picture Professional to 'render' the image at 100%, the black dots or even square lights will disappear. Have a look at some of the night shots I have taken at the bay area at this link http://augustinekum.smugmug.com/

This is my first attempt at night photography and no post processing were done on the pictures except for cropping. They are generally over exposed but you will notice that they do not contain the black dots at all the bright spots even at 100%. All the pictures had the 'problem' when 1st viewed at 100% in DPP. If you wait for approximately 10 seconds (at least on my laptop), the so called 'defects' will 'disappear'.

 

[Gunbucker]

Bro! Since the launch of the camera, you then show your presence. :bsmilie:
I re-call you are anxiously waiting for it. Call me if you still want to feel it. Let the poison flow. :devil:

Yo bro! Trying very hard to resist the temptation

 

[surefire]

Hi,

As mentioned in my previous reply, if you wait long enough for Canon Digital Picture Professional to 'render' the image at 100%, the black dots or even square lights will disappear. Have a look at some of the night shots I have taken at the bay area at this link http://augustinekum.smugmug.com/

This is my first attempt at night photography and no post processing were done on the pictures except for cropping. They are generally over exposed but you will notice that they do not contain the black dots at all the bright spots even at 100%. All the pictures had the 'problem' when 1st viewed at 100% in DPP. If you wait for approximately 10 seconds (at least on my laptop), the so called 'defects' will 'disappear'.

Firstly, thanks for posting some great photos.


Secondly, I hope you won't be disappointed but the dots ARE clearly visible - you just need to know where to look.

Here's a reduced-size photo taken from your smugmug page:-

and here's a 100%-crop:-

There are spots elsewhere too but they are most noticeable in my crop, esp the bright spots on the right .

I am convinced that this is a hardware issue that affects all 5D Mk IIs.

To-date, I have yet to see a photo taken in these type of conditions (small, bright lights in dark environment at ISO 400 or higher) that do NOT exhibit the dreaded black spots.

 

[Shootking]

Firstly, thanks for posting some great photos.


Secondly, I hope you won't be disappointed but the dots ARE clearly visible - you just need to know where to look.

Here's a reduced-size photo taken from your smugmug page:-

There are spots elsewhere too but they are most noticeable in my crop, esp the bright spots on the right .

I am convinced that this is a hardware issue that affects all 5D Mk IIs.

To-date, I have yet to see a photo taken in these type of conditions (small, bright lights in dark environment at ISO 400 or higher) that do NOT exhibit the dreaded black spots.

.... And hence ...?

 

[phoakm]

.... And hence ...?

Shoot in lower ISO loh. :bsmilie:

 

[Shootking]

Shoot in lower ISO loh. :bsmilie:

... and admire the improved LCD, auto ISO, the rumored faster AF, and more pleasant shutter sound :what:

 

[surefire]

.... And hence ...?

For those who already have the MkII, I say, forget about this and other equivalent threads you will find on the net. Go out and enjoy your camera and if and when Canon comes out with a fix, either download the fix or send in the camera. No point getting upset.

My intention in pointing out the problem is merely to alert potential buyers to the issue so that they can decide for themselves if they think it will be an issue for them and the type of photos they take. Here's an example of a real life photo impacted by the spots:-

http://www.andrewyip.com/blog/2008/12/09/black-dots-in-5d-mark-ii-images

He has also come up with a simple test to determine if your camera has the problem (although i believe it affects all MkIIs to-date).

If potential buyers think all this is over-blown and it is not an issue, then fine. For others, it may be wiser to wait. Canon has already acknowledged the problem - see here for a quote by Chuck Wesfall:-

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13580_3-10120964-39.html

 

[engrmariano]

Long Exposure Noise Reduction causes Black Dot Phenomenon?...

Enable

Disable

 

[bhchew]

I am convinced that this is a hardware issue that affects all 5D Mk IIs.

To-date, I have yet to see a photo taken in these type of conditions (small, bright lights in dark environment at ISO 400 or higher) that do NOT exhibit the dreaded black spots.

I think this is more of Software/Firmware issues. You just need to disable some features and the black dots will be gone. I think Canon shall be looking into the fixes at the moment.

 

[surefire]

Long Exposure Noise Reduction causes Black Dot Phenomenon?...

Your post is very interesting.

If you read this thread:-

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1032&thread=30276248&page=2

the poster initially though that the spots could be removed if he turned off 1. highlight tone priority, 2. auto lighting optimiser and 3. high ISO NR but he later admitted that he was wrong as shown in the comparison crops on page 2.

In your case, you have turned off long exposure NR instead and the spots seem to have significantly diminished although they are still faintly visible. I am not sure if this will work for all situations or even if it does whether it's desirable to turn off long exposure NR but it is certainly a new twist.

Thanks for the post.

 

[surefire]

I think this is more of Software/Firmware issues. You just need to disable some features and the black dots will be gone. I think Canon shall be looking into the fixes at the moment.

From what I have read, the consensus seems to be leaning towards a hardware issue because the spots shows up on the raw data as well. In any case, I don't think you can call it a solution to pay for some features that may be potentially useful and not being able to use them.

My major worry is that Canon will come out with a firmware "fudged fix" that just glosses over the problem (just like using PP to clone over or cover the spots) even if it is hardware-related because it will be much cheaper than doing a recall/exchange.

 

[doodah]

My major worry is that Canon will come out with a firmware "fudged fix" that just glosses over the problem (just like using PP to clone over or cover the spots) even if it is hardware-related because it will be much cheaper than doing a recall/exchange.

Worry??? What's there for you to worry if you do NOT even own the camera right now?

What exactly is your motive for harping on this issue when you have ZERO Canon gear?

Should I repeat myself a third time? If you are not happy about it, don't buy it and don't bit** about it day and night.

 

[surefire]

Worry??? What's there for you to worry if you do NOT even own the camera right now?

What exactly is your motive for harping on this issue when you have ZERO Canon gear?

Should I repeat myself a third time? If you are not happy about it, don't buy it and don't bit** about it day and night.

If I already own this camera, I wouldn't be worrying at all. I would be out shooting while waiting for a fix by Canon. It is precisely because I do not have this camera and it is something I may be keen in buying that I am following this issue closely.

I can understand your annoyance at this thread - you already bought the camera and you are not happy that someone is pointing out there there might be some issues with it. Don't forget - I didn't start this thread. If my posts make you unhappy, simple - don't read them and just ignore this thread. My posts are meant for those who have yet to buy the camera. If you go through them, you will find that I have only been posting facts. In none of my posts have I criticised the camera.

And what relevance is it that I do not have a Canon DSLR (I do have a few Canon P&S btw)? Must I already own a Canon before I am allowed to be interested in a Canon? How did you get your first Canon then? Were you born with one?

I have a Nikon D300 which is an APS-C camera and I am not invested in any expensive FF glass so I am not tied down to any brand. If you are driving Nissan today, does it mean you cannot look at Toyota cars?

'Nuff said.

 

[doodah]

I can understand your annoyance at this thread - you already bought the camera and you are not happy that someone is pointing out there there might be some issues with it.

No, I do not own the camera. Neither do I plan on getting one.

And what relevance is it that I do not have a Canon DSLR (I do have a few Canon P&S btw)? Must I already own a Canon before I am allowed to be interested in a Canon? How did you get your first Canon then? Were you born with one?

If I wanna get a camera, I just wait for some feedback on the web. If I think it's good, I'll get one. If I do not think it's suitable for one reason or another, I simply choose not to get one. I do not go around harping on the shortcomings or possible flaws of the camera.

I am VERY interested in a small interchangeable lens camera like the Panasonic G1. But for some reasons I will not state here, I have decided to skip the camera. I do not visit the Four-thirds forum and b***h about the camera day and night.

 

[surefire]

No, I do not own the camera. Neither do I plan on getting one.



If I wanna get a camera, I just wait for some feedback on the web. If I think it's good, I'll get one. If I do not think it's suitable for one reason or another, I simply choose not to get one. I do not go around harping on the shortcomings or possible flaws of the camera.

I am VERY interested in a small interchangeable lens camera like the Panasonic G1. But for some reasons I will not state here, I have decided to skip the camera. I do not visit the Four-thirds forum and b***h about the camera day and night.

There you go again! This is getting ridiculous. I would like to know just what is your definition of b***h?

LET ME SAY IT AGAIN since you did not seem to understand the first time - I did NOT start this thread or any other thread saying "Look! The 5D MkII sucks because it has black spots"! If PictureFreak had not started this thread, I might not have known how prevalent this matter was and I thank him for raising the issue. If you look through my posts, you will find that I have been responding to others who have raised queries and to clarify possible misconceptions that might hurt potential buyers. I don't have a vendetta against Canon - why should I waste my time criticising the 5D Mk II? Aside from this black-spots issue which should hopefully be resolved soon, I think it is a great camera which happens to be on my shortlist.

My posts have been in the spirit of this thread and addresses the concerns of the OP who wanted to know if there was any truth to the rumours that he had heard or read. I have been happy and willing to share my research on this subject which you obviously have not done. Your posts, on the other hand, adds no value at all and detracts from this thread like the ramblings of a drunk detracts from an intelligent conversation.

There are many who have real concerns about this issue. If not, Oculas would not have started this thread:-

http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=447592

You have already stated that you have no interest in getting this camera. You want me to quote you on that? It's in post #23 of this thread, btw. The black spots issue is then obviously of no concern to you. Why then do you keep coming back to this thread? Leave this thread to others who actually have intention of getting this camera and go back to your 450D.

 

[Old Boy]

Did the same test with pin holes and shine a torch behind it. Guess what ? The so called black spot is visible on both 5DmkII and 40D. I don't think I will try on my 400D as I think it's a waste of time. Even before capturing the shot, just by viewing through the viewfinder, I see "black" spots through the holes.Why not move the eyes around the viewfinder, you'll start seeing some. Anyway, it's not that obvious to most people, except for pixel peepers. Can't lose sleep over such trivial issues.:dunno:
I hope I did not spread the fire to all the other canon cameras.

 

[David Kwok]

Did the same test with pin holes and shine a torch behind it. Guess what ? The so called black spot is visible on both 5DmkII and 40D. I don't think I will try on my 400D as I think it's a waste of time. Even before capturing the shot, just by viewing through the viewfinder, I see "black" spots through the holes.Why not move the eyes around the viewfinder, you'll start seeing some. Anyway, it's not that obvious to most people, except for pixel peepers. Can't lose sleep over such trivial issues.:dunno:
I hope I did not spread the fire to all the other canon cameras.

I'm not a Canon user, but from those black dots distribution and no occurrence of hot pixels at all at high ISO, It's very likely those are originally hot pixels but canon firmware did a on the fly replacement with a dark pixel instead or the algorithm to perform the hot pixel replacement cork up and end up with those black pixels instead.
What you feel ? My 2 cents worth.

 

[Old Boy]

I'm not a Canon user, but from those black dots distribution and no occurrence of hot pixels at all at high ISO, It's very likely those are originally hot pixels but canon firmware did a on the fly replacement with a dark pixel instead or the algorithm to perform the hot pixel replacement cork up and end up with those black pixels instead.
What you feel ? My 2 cents worth.

Well agree that's a plausible explanation. I read the other link, and also do agree that the tests done on 1D2N wasn't really apple to apple test. How about sharing the findings from your camera under same tests and PM for results...getting sensitive here. :bsmilie:
Ps not that I am bothered, but just curios to know more :bsmilie:

 

[David Kwok]

Well agree that's a plausible explanation. I read the other link, and also do agree that the tests done on 1D2N wasn't really apple to apple test. How about sharing the findings from your camera under same tests and PM for results...getting sensitive here. :bsmilie:
Ps not that I am bothered, but just curios to know more :bsmilie:

I don't own any Canon camera to perform test. Besides hot pixel are really quite irregular, noise are more regular than hot pixels. I own the D300 previously and at ISO 1600, one bright blue pixel shows up. Nikon doesn't have any algorithm to resolve that, so users have to bring in the camera to let NSC service centre do a pixel mapping to remove the hot pixel. Basically it's an averaging technique that takes the surrounding pixels values and calculate the middle pixel value. That means u lost one pixel of information. But at least you don't need to use other software to do that for you or you PP the bright spot away. To frank, Canon technology may be different but I don't think it can escape the hot pixel issue on CMOS sensor. It's a common technology and hence the issues are similar. If you don't see hot pixel in high ISO of canon, something must have been done by the firmware. I personally is very confident about this aspect.

 

[Old Boy]

I don't own any Canon camera to perform test. Besides hot pixel are really quite irregular, noise are more regular than hot pixels. I own the D300 previously and at ISO 1600, one bright blue pixel shows up. Nikon doesn't have any algorithm to resolve that, so users have to bring in the camera to let NSC service centre do a pixel mapping to remove the hot pixel. Basically it's an averaging technique that takes the surrounding pixels values and calculate the middle pixel value. That means u lost one pixel of information. But at least you don't need to use other software to do that for you or you PP the bright spot away. To frank, Canon technology may be different but I don't think it can escape the hot pixel issue on CMOS sensor. It's a common technology and hence the issues are similar. If you don't see hot pixel in high ISO of canon, something must have been done by the firmware. I personally is very confident about this aspect.

OIC, it's the method/approach on how manufacturers want to resolve the hot pixel issues and something has to be sacrificed. It's just a matter of level of acceptance to the individual users. I hope we don't find users looking for "missing" pixel info here. Thanks for the patience and explanation. Learn something new.