40th national birthday - does it mean anything to you?

[huaiwei]

Hard to separate them when they encompass everything in Singapore. In the mouth of Judge Dread, 'I AM THE LAW!'. In this case, ruling party is the country itself. That is in-separable....... ;p

I personally dont see why the two have to be mixed. In fact, saying the *** is Singapore sounds exactly like what the *** wants all of us to think!

My loyalty and allegience is for Singapore, and that is not wavered irrespective of who the ruling power is. In contrast, I dont "owe" any loyalty to the ruling party. Its their duty, in fact, to earn my loyalty, by convincing me that they are the ones who should be getting my vote (if I ever get to vote that is).

To answer the question, I am not sure if its because I have "grown older", and hence dosent get that fuzzy feeling in the heart as much now, but somehow, this year's "feel" dosent feel as overpowering as, say, the 1990 edition, whereby I could still remember the damn anniversay logo now!

 

[Hommie]

"whiner" wasn't targetted at you at all, that I can assure you. As for the "mob" analogy, it was a statement in a 3rd party sense used to illustrate a position. I don't think it was uncivil in any sense, such rejoinders are common in debates and if you deem it untrue, one needn't take offence.

No doubt you have in been civil throughout, but I do sense some animosity towards me specifically after I made a post in another thread.

No but even then we can all do well to exclude words like 'whiners and mob' to extend all even if people oppose our views. I have used very little such words to illustrate my points but does it meant that I am any less firm on my believes as communicated? In your statement to illustrate your position, sweeping all the rest as either or, eg: 'A person who is just unhappy and rails at everything without stating clearly his dissatisfaction is certainly far from being a maverick. Rather he is just a another voice in a mob' if you are not a maverick then another voice in the mob.

Another one: 'You see whiners and complainers who only bitch about inadequacies and things that don't go right for them and yet never put themselves forward to help improve it'. Such sweeping statement! :bsmilie: As such when you reply towards my statement have a implication of me being such as mentioned and can't be easily be wavied as 'such rejoinders are common in debates and if you deem it untrue, one needn't take offence'.

Maybe common but not a good example of a good civil debate. No offense I hope.

Another is your contradiction is getting more and more serious. :bsmilie: Apart from the earlier mentioned by me, you wrote: I'll just leave it as that and retire from this debate. Do state your views rather than to just pick on mine, as I haven't heard your side yet. Don't worry, I won't even reply to it. ten hours earlier. However, we are still here. :sweat:

 

[Zerstorer]

Another is your contradiction is getting more and more serious. :bsmilie: Apart from the earlier mentioned by me, you wrote: I'll just leave it as that and retire from this debate. Do state your views rather than to just pick on mine, as I haven't heard your side yet. Don't worry, I won't even reply to it. ten hours earlier. However, we are still here. :sweat:

I asked you to state your position and affirmed that I will not carry on the debate. However, you are now taking it personally and are picking issues with the way I post. I don't think I should be constricted in replying to your accusations in this matter.

Somehow I get the feeling that its not the issues at hand, but more of a personal challenge now as you are just trying to twist my words to discredit me instead of putting forth your own points.

Do what you wish, you can have the last word.

 

[Hommie]

I asked you to state your position and affirmed that I will not carry on the debate. However, you are now taking it personally and are picking issues with the way I post. I don't think I should be constricted in replying to your accusations in this matter.

Somehow I get the feeling that its not the issues at hand, but more of a personal challenge now as you are just trying to twist my words to discredit me instead of putting forth your own points.

Do what you wish, you can have the last word.

No because you play your own games, set your own rules.

If you notice that any debate requires consistency to support itself logically throughout. IMHO, you failed this basic requirement to even start the subject itself. What I did is merely to point out this in-consistencies to you. I have more than once where by the subject itself becomes a sideshow once the opposite camp insisted that I was aiming at personal attack by picking or twisting their word out to contacts. Perhaps you should see how a fundamental flawed statement(In My Humble Opinion) have holes riddled all over the place will come crashing down with or without my help. If you want to see it as a personal attack, so be it, or you can do likewise to my statement if you think it flawed(I think you have tried). I have always constructed my statements carefully to make it consistent.

But as I think you have fail in the last part, the previous portion is done well despite small issues.

In this aspect I prefer debating with dkw as he never mince and is consistent throughtout his words despites our differences and I respect it totally as someone who did as he said. Is this your real last words?

 

[huaiwei]

Actually the only "consistency" I see now with regards to the above is the unceasing tit-for-tat exchanges going on between you two. So how about letting it pass and giving some space for the rest of the community to share their comments on the topic in question here?

 

[Hommie]

Actually the only "consistency" I see now with regards to the above is the unceasing tit-for-tat exchanges going on between you two. So how about letting it pass and giving some space for the rest of the community to share their comments on the topic in question here?

Okay! Go ahead!

 

[huaiwei]

Okay! Go ahead!

Er...paiseh....I am asking for others lah..not for myself. I already made some noises just a few posts up!

 

[reno77]

It makes me break into song and dance!

Di mana dia, anak kambing saya
Anak kambing saya main di tepi bendang
Di mana dia cinta hati saya
Cinta hati saya yang jalan berlenggang

Chan mali chan oh oh
Chan mali chan oh oh
Chan mali chan ketipung payung

Chan mali chan oh oh
Chan mali chan oh oh
Chan mali chan ketipung payung

More Good Beers!... hic..

 

[LittleWolf]

our 40th national birthday, i feel it is rousing nationalistic ground sentiments in preparation for general election. nothing more.

From this foreigner's point of view, too much "feel good" patriotism about what Singapore has achieved over four decades comes with the danger of becoming complacent. I wish there was a bit more emphasis and open discussion on how to build society/nation for the next 40 years, instead of the last 40.

People's patriotism gets questioned if they don't hang out flags, but aren't those who ask critical questions and have fresh ideas for Singapore's future doing their nation a better service than a herd of sheep mindlessly following everyone else?

 

[reachme2003]

i feel that hanging of the state flag does not equate to patriotism. similiarly, not hanging does not equate to non-patriotism.

From this foreigner's point of view, too much "feel good" patriotism about what Singapore has achieved over four decades comes with the danger of becoming complacent. I wish there was a bit more emphasis and open discussion on how to build society/nation for the next 40 years, instead of the last 40.

People's patriotism gets questioned if they don't hang out flags, but aren't those who ask critical questions and have fresh ideas for Singapore's future doing their nation a better service than a herd of sheep mindlessly following everyone else?

 

[amospi]

Wow, this topic is back again!!:sweatsm:

Singapore is great to stay only if you are making alot of $, and healthy, young(parents support), or son of the minster etc...

Singapore is suc...k if you are not making a lot of $, slow learner, not very healthy, young but need to support parents, old and useless, sick and useless, still in debt with hdb, car loan, credit card bill, and bought a pirated vcd but still can't find time to watch because the boss demand alot of OT..etc....

It's truth that after 40 years Singapore has become the leading country of prosperity and symbol of wealth known throught out the world..
But the fact is well know to the world retail trade too is that Singaporean is stingy, make litter purchase and demand huge..(Are Singapore really that bad?? They are just not that prosperity and wealthy as what the world thought)

So where does this 40 year of prosperity and wealth goes to..??
People now seem poorer than before, I remember our family bought the Singapore flag which cost about $6-$8 to hang during national day many many years back, but now cannot affort liao....:sweat: nowadays flag provide by the RiCh liao..:sweatsm:

 

[Sion]

People now seem poorer than before, I remember our family bought the Singapore flag which cost about $6-$8 to hang during national day many many years back, but now cannot affort liao....

What's wrong with hanging out the old flag?

 

[Sion]

People's patriotism gets questioned if they don't hang out flags, but aren't those who ask critical questions and have fresh ideas for Singapore's future doing their nation a better service than a herd of sheep mindlessly following everyone else?

Now that's the great "National Concensus" that has got the nation going very well for the last 40 years.

From also a foreigner

 

[LittleWolf]

Singapore is suc...k if you are not making a lot of $, slow learner, not very healthy, young but need to support parents, old and useless, sick and useless, still in debt with hdb, car loan, credit card bill, and bought a pirated vcd but still can't find time to watch because the boss demand alot of OT..etc....

...

I remember our family bought the Singapore flag which cost about $6-$8 to hang during national day many many years back, but now cannot affort liao....

Our neighbourhood centre sells/sold them at two dollars a piece.

Just wondering, how many had cars, credit card, and home entertainment systems 40 years ago? It may just be that the expectations grow at a faster rate than the standard of living.

 

[dkw]

If folk took some time to take stock of har far we have come, maybe the criticisms here will be less harsh. Just look around the neighbourhood. 40 years ago, our immediate neighbours were at similar levels of economic development. Where are they now? How many Singapore born citizens can truly say that they would prefer to live in another country in South East Asia? How many countries in the world could you rank above Singapore in a quality of life index? I have been accused of having my head in the clouds. The reality of life in other countries provides a stark contrast to what is possible here on this little red dot. I think those who speak so vociferously against the country are the ones in need of a reality check. Yes, the political space is restricted, but there is hope for the future, and it is nothing as dark or secretive as some people may make it out to be. Are there some hush-hush governmental bodies who surveil, monitor, interrogate? I'm absolutely sure they exist. Have some folk been given a quiet talking to by the authorities? Most probably. But which country does not? Even in the "bastions" of democracy like the UK and the US, shadowy agencies exist and detention without trial can occur. Consider what a slightly radical human rights watchdog organisation has to say about Singapore;

http://web.amnesty.org/report2004/sgp-summary-eng

Now read the reports on neighbouring countries and others. Singapore is hardly horrendous, is it?

Also read the UN Human Developement Report 2004;

http://hdr.undp.org/reports/global/2004/

Singapore ranks 25th in the world, and is the 3rd highest ranked Asian country behind Hong Kong and Japan. Not too bad for a little red dot, is it? Reality check time?

And oh yeah, Happy National Day!

 

[Adam Goi]

Happy birthday Singapore!

:cheergal: :cheergal: :cheergal:

Let's not get complacent despite all our achievements!

 

[YoungPAP]

Moderators
Let's locked this thread for this is getting out of control.

Happy birthday Singapore!

:cheergal: :cheergal: :cheergal:

Let's not get complacent despite all our achievements!

 

[Hommie]

If folk took some time to take stock of har far we have come, maybe the criticisms here will be less harsh. Just look around the neighbourhood. 40 years ago, our immediate neighbours were at similar levels of economic development. Where are they now? How many Singapore born citizens can truly say that they would prefer to live in another country in South East Asia? How many countries in the world could you rank above Singapore in a quality of life index? I have been accused of having my head in the clouds. The reality of life in other countries provides a stark contrast to what is possible here on this little red dot. I think those who speak so vociferously against the country are the ones in need of a reality check. Yes, the political space is restricted, but there is hope for the future, and it is nothing as dark or secretive as some people may make it out to be. Are there some hush-hush governmental bodies who surveil, monitor, interrogate? I'm absolutely sure they exist. Have some folk been given a quiet talking to by the authorities? Most probably. But which country does not? Even in the "bastions" of democracy like the UK and the US, shadowy agencies exist and detention without trial can occur. Consider what a slightly radical human rights watchdog organisation has to say about Singapore;

http://web.amnesty.org/report2004/sgp-summary-eng

Now read the reports on neighbouring countries and others. Singapore is hardly horrendous, is it?

Also read the UN Human Developement Report 2004;

http://hdr.undp.org/reports/global/2004/

Singapore ranks 25th in the world, and is the 3rd highest ranked Asian country behind Hong Kong and Japan. Not too bad for a little red dot, is it? Reality check time?

And oh yeah, Happy National Day!

I gonna say this one last time, questioning the system does not equates to going against the country. Perhaps you would like to see what our neighbours face with their huge populations, constant natural disasters and very difficult geographical terrain before making such incredibly 'fair' comparism against a very small country bless with a good location, no natural disaster but zero resources.

I for one like to see how you can run a country with more than a billion and still bulging population racked with natural disaster, amok corruptions and a civil war without slipping into chao!

 

[LittleWolf]

Now that's the great "National Concensus" that has got the nation going very well for the last 40 years.

Criticism and open discussion are not unpatriotic; I'd say a plurality of opinions is needed as the input to build concensus. World and society are not static, and any "national concensus" must keep questioning and renewing itself if it should stay relevant in an evolving environment.

In this sense, let's tackle the years that lie ahead. Majulah, and Happy Birthday!

 

[oceanxp]

i think i rather count other nos such as clubsnap anniversary !! hope we can have a disco bash cum tiger beer drink in the coming clubsnap anniversary ! long live clubsnap !!