400D as a First DSLR?

[Milopok]

I recommended http://www.dpreview.com for a side-by-side comparison.

The main difference between the 40D and 400D is that the 40D has better image quality (somehow, despite using the same crop factor and CMOS sensor as the 400D). But it can do 6.5 fps, whilst the 400D can only manage a meagre 3 fps.

Yes, the 40D can take all the lenses we've discussed so far. It has both EF and EF-S mount, just like the 400D.

Hahaha. I think you can only decide for yourself when you've tried out both cameras.

Oh and yes I'm pretty confident the 50mm and 85 mm f/1.8s can manage the low light conditions.

Thanks again for responding unseenshadows.

Did some comparisons at dpreview last night. Yep saw the 6.5fps. Yes I need to go and 'try' it at the shop. Maybe vivo city. Saw them lined up the cameras for anyone to have a feel. But I doubt one could actually start shooting with it there & then. Really like the rugged texture on the 40D and if its going to keep me company for the next 3-5yrs, I want something that feels good while I am shooting and I could improve along with the recent technology thats available. The 30D is not that much cheaper. How strange can that be!?!

Yes the two prime lenses f/1.8 will be at the top of my list. Just wanted to make sure I have at least one walkabout lens (for my weekends) as its not everyday I get to attend exhibitions.

I am still pondering over what you wrote previously when I mentioned about the Sigma 17-70mm F2.8-4.5 DC Macro:

"At 70mm that lens is 4.5 wide open and can't perform at low-light conditions. 17 mm at f/2.8 would also be too wide an angle for your indoor photography of exhibits."

Compared to Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8 (zoom):
I think you meant, the Tamron will only shoot at f/2.8 in the range of 17-50mm.

With the Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8-4.5, it does not shoot 70mm at f/2.8?

 

[Triple3]

Maybe vivo city. Saw them lined up the cameras for anyone to have a feel. But I doubt one could actually start shooting with it there & then.

You can bring your own CF cards to try out the cameras on display at Vivo. The staff there are helpful. The lens on the cam are kit lens only, not sure if they keep samples of the other lenses on display in their counter or not. You can asking. Do keep us posted.

Good luck.

 

[Milopok]

haha darn you making me post a sony camera link in a canon forum...
http://www.sony.com.sg/microsite/dslr/features_ch01.html

here u go.. image stabilisation in a body so all your lens have VR

Thanks slaam;p

 

[Milopok]

You can bring your own CF cards to try out the cameras on display at Vivo. The staff there are helpful. The lens on the cam are kit lens only, not sure if they keep samples of the other lenses on display in their counter or not. You can asking. Do keep us posted.

Good luck.

The last time I was there to checkout their PnS few months back, the staff were really great and showed me quite a number of their available models. Ok...will bring along my CF card. Thanks.

 

[unseenshadows]

Thanks again for responding unseenshadows.

Did some comparisons at dpreview last night. Yep saw the 6.5fps. Yes I need to go and 'try' it at the shop. Maybe vivo city. Saw them lined up the cameras for anyone to have a feel. But I doubt one could actually start shooting with it there & then. Really like the rugged texture on the 40D and if its going to keep me company for the next 3-5yrs, I want something that feels good while I am shooting and I could improve along with the recent technology thats available. The 30D is not that much cheaper. How strange can that be!?!

Yes the two prime lenses f/1.8 will be at the top of my list. Just wanted to make sure I have at least one walkabout lens (for my weekends) as its not everyday I get to attend exhibitions.

I am still pondering over what you wrote previously when I mentioned about the Sigma 17-70mm F2.8-4.5 DC Macro:

"At 70mm that lens is 4.5 wide open and can't perform at low-light conditions. 17 mm at f/2.8 would also be too wide an angle for your indoor photography of exhibits."

Compared to Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8 (zoom):
I think you meant, the Tamron will only shoot at f/2.8 in the range of 17-50mm.

With the Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8-4.5, it does not shoot 70mm at f/2.8?

Huh no la, the tamron won't only shoot at f/2.8 at 17-50 mm. f/2.8 would be the maximum aperture that the lens can do. it can shoot till f/20-something depending on your camera body.

When I said "17 mm at f/2.8 would also be too wide an angle for your indoor photography of exhibits", I meant that you'd probably be shooting at f/2.8 since its low light and after a certain focal length the sigma 17-70 f/2.8-4.5 won't be able to do f/2.8

Yes the Sigma 17-70 f/2.8-4.5 does not shoot f/2.8 at 70 mm (or 70 mm at f/2.8)

Hope I didn't confuse you.

 

[Milopok]

ah...now i understand how to read those numbers. Once its got a range, forget the low-end f. at the high-end mm

<Sigh>

 

[unseenshadows]

Haha it takes time. It got confusing too when I first started out on DSLRs.

So when are you getting your cam?

 

[Milopok]

Haha it takes time. It got confusing too when I first started out on DSLRs.

So when are you getting your cam?

Hear there is a going to be another Show maybe in end-Nov this year or maybe Xmas discounts? May wait till then. But if I find a real bargain before that then things may change. Again that depends how much I could make out from what they offer in a Kit package deal vs just getting the body + selective lenses (which could potentially mean I lose whats in a package deal)

Plus I need to budget other stuff (hopefully its not all the things I will never need), for example:
- UV filter B+W, Extra battery, extra memory card, circular polariser, cleaning kit, neutral density filter
- Lenspen (whatever this is), dry cabinet, bags....wo...and the list goes on...&...on

 

[unseenshadows]

Well you don't really need so many accessories..can learn to work with limited equipment before prioritising your budget upon what you want to get. Stuff you don't have to get right away would be extra memory cards, batteries and cleaning kit.

A good way to keep your lens clean would be to use a spectacle cloth, but remember to be careful not to scratch your lens.

No idea what a lenspen is, but stuff like dry cabinets aren't really necessary until you have 2 or more lenses.

As for camera bags, you can try bargaining at the shop for a free EOS bag when you get your cam.

If i'm not wrong, the current promo for the 400D includes a tripod and 2GB CF cards. Maybe you can try trading the tripod for a bag at the shop? Btw the promo ends 28 Oct. Plus 150 dollars for extended warranty gets you your 50 mm f/1.8! If you get the EOS 400D Kit II (the one with 17-85 mm IS USM), you can sell the lens off brand new for about 600 to 700 dollars. That should offset the cost of anything else you might need.

 

[Milopok]

Well you don't really need so many accessories..can learn to work with limited equipment before prioritising your budget upon what you want to get. Stuff you don't have to get right away would be extra memory cards, batteries and cleaning kit.

A good way to keep your lens clean would be to use a spectacle cloth, but remember to be careful not to scratch your lens.

No idea what a lenspen is, but stuff like dry cabinets aren't really necessary until you have 2 or more lenses.

As for camera bags, you can try bargaining at the shop for a free EOS bag when you get your cam.

If i'm not wrong, the current promo for the 400D includes a tripod and 2GB CF cards. Maybe you can try trading the tripod for a bag at the shop? Btw the promo ends 28 Oct. Plus 150 dollars for extended warranty gets you your 50 mm f/1.8! If you get the EOS 400D Kit II (the one with 17-85 mm IS USM), you can sell the lens off brand new for about 600 to 700 dollars. That should offset the cost of anything else you might need.

Hey unseenshadows

Nice to see u hear once again...thanks for your kind advise as usual.

Had a quick look last night at one of the Shop. All three that I have been considering were parked neatly together, 400D SLR, 40D SLR and G9 PnS. The 40D is huge. So much larger than the 400D. The 40D Kit at S$2299, Kit II at S$2899, 400D Kit II at S$1999, Kit at S$1349, 350D Kit at $999 and G9 at S$899. (before negotiation).

Will do some reading on the G9 today and see if that will also fit my needs. If so, I may end up saving some $$$:bsmilie:

ah...all these considerations to make an informed decision!

 

[LittleWolf]

I thought the fast lenses 50mm or 85mm f/1.8 pretty much would handle well. Please elaborate if u can. Thank you.

Something like 85mm/1.8 will probably give only 10 or 20 millimetres depth of field at the distances you mentioned. 50mm/1.8 is slightly better, but the field of view is also larger. If you need the large field of view because the object is so big, it will probably also have considerable depth and require according depth of field; if it is a small object, it may not fill the frame. If you stop down the lens to gain some depth of field, you'll quickly lose the ability to do hand-held shots. Maybe anti-shake technology can help a bit, but that still doesn't improve lighting & perspective.

I'm sure you can make the best of the situation, but from your initial posting I had the impresison you might expect too much. Are you going to be satisfied with "the best that could be done in this situation", or do you want "art catalog" quality that can stand on its own without having to excuse it with all the restrictions encountered? In the first case, go for it; in the second case, be prepared to accept disappointments, regardless how much money you spend. It boils down to how much risk you want to take.

 

[Milopok]

Something like 85mm/1.8 will probably give only 10 or 20 millimetres depth of field at the distances you mentioned. 50mm/1.8 is slightly better, but the field of view is also larger. If you need the large field of view because the object is so big, it will probably also have considerable depth and require according depth of field; if it is a small object, it may not fill the frame. If you stop down the lens to gain some depth of field, you'll quickly lose the ability to do hand-held shots. Maybe anti-shake technology can help a bit, but that still doesn't improve lighting & perspective.

I'm sure you can make the best of the situation, but from your initial posting I had the impresison you might expect too much. Are you going to be satisfied with "the best that could be done in this situation", or do you want "art catalog" quality that can stand on its own without having to excuse it with all the restrictions encountered? In the first case, go for it; in the second case, be prepared to accept disappointments, regardless how much money you spend. It boils down to how much risk you want to take.

Hi LittleWolf

The initial post was some of the actual conditions I had to face (not so much my own expectations). Overtime when I started to talk about them do I then realised that those were rather demanding or unattainable from a first SLR newbie. This is why I am also taking a few steps back to be 'real' for while.

Most of the pictures taken are for my family/relatives and to share with friends, none for any business transactions or 'catalog'. Your comment reminded me of posts in other forums whereby debates revolved around what the SLR did not deliver, or in my opinion never 'promised'. Not difficult to guess the reasons behind those too.:bsmilie:

Interesting recommendations from you there for the 50mm/1.8. Tough for me to digest as I have never tried those. Will jot it down as part of my reference nevertheless. Thanks.

 

[LittleWolf]

Just to clarify:

Interesting recommendations from you there for the 50mm/1.8.

I didn't intend to recommend it over the 85 mm lens; when I said it's "better" I was referring to the depth of field that you get, and even this is assuming that you want the objects you photograph to be mostly in focus. If the objects are rather small and you end up with lots of empty space with a tiny object in the center, it may not be a good choice at all.

 

[Milopok]

Just to clarify:



I didn't intend to recommend it over the 85 mm lens; when I said it's "better" I was referring to the depth of field that you get, and even this is assuming that you want the objects you photograph to be mostly in focus. If the objects are rather small and you end up with lots of empty space with a tiny object in the center, it may not be a good choice at all.

Some of the smaller objects I came acrossed worth taking a shot at range from 12inches to 24 inches in length. And these were normally protected by glass but you get to stand almost next to it. I understand what you mean by the empty spaces. Normally I try my best to take in most of the details at closeup. And if I want a pic of the entire piece, that will include the glass as well. Again depending on the ratio of the glass box to the object.

Sometimes you want an angle and it just happen to be in the way where the vertical & horizontal glass join. @#*&!%:bsmilie:

 

[LittleWolf]

Some of the smaller objects I came acrossed worth taking a shot at range from 12inches to 24 inches in length.

From a distance of 2 metres, and with the sensor size of the 400D, field of view for a 50mm lens is roughly 0.9 m x 0.6 m (I'm doing the estimate in my head, so better double-check). That seems quite acceptable to me for a 24" tall/wide object. 12" objects might appear a bit small from this distance. If you want to estimate for other lenses, the field of view is approximately reciprocal to the focal length (as long as the focal length is much shorter than the distance to the object).

 

[Milopok]

From a distance of 2 metres, and with the sensor size of the 400D, field of view for a 50mm lens is roughly 0.9 m x 0.6 m (I'm doing the estimate in my head, so better double-check). That seems quite acceptable to me for a 24" tall/wide object. 12" objects might appear a bit small from this distance. If you want to estimate for other lenses, the field of view is approximately reciprocal to the focal length (as long as the focal length is much shorter than the distance to the object).

Wow...thats a very sharp and calculated observation. I am taking notes. Thank you for helping me out.

 

[unseenshadows]

Ha. I can't do that sorta math in my head. But I do know that your most practical way to go is to get a 400D, 50mm prime, shoot and then figure out what else you need from there.

BTW, apart from shooting exhibitions, what other sort of photography are you interested in?

 

[Milopok]

helo unseenshadows,
Recently I mentioned this, you probably recall:
1) Definitely a whole lot of our good old Shop houses (mostly 2-3 storeys, in a row or singular, not the model skyscrapers)
2) Portraits (of people in their daily life activities)
3) Incredible Sunsets (something I have always wanted to do but was hardly ever successful with PnS)

Or are you asking about something else?

 

[Killer_Jay]

Hey unseenshadows

Nice to see u hear once again...thanks for your kind advise as usual.

Had a quick look last night at one of the Shop. All three that I have been considering were parked neatly together, 400D SLR, 40D SLR and G9 PnS. The 40D is huge. So much larger than the 400D. The 40D Kit at S$2299, Kit II at S$2899, 400D Kit II at S$1999, Kit at S$1349, 350D Kit at $999 and G9 at S$899. (before negotiation).

Will do some reading on the G9 today and see if that will also fit my needs. If so, I may end up saving some $$$:bsmilie:

ah...all these considerations to make an informed decision!

bro,

may i ask where did u got the deal for 350D Kit at $999? tot canon is selling the body only at $999?

jay the newbie

 

[Milopok]

I will check again when I get home.